Nationwide Ban on smoky coal

coconnellz

New regulations being proposed by the government to ban the sale of smoky coal and unseasoned timber, RTE news : Govt proposing national ban on sale of smoky coal

http://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0218/1197804-smoky-coal/

willabur

what about charcoal?

coconnellz

willabur wrote: »

what about charcoal?

I Think they will be allowed as it's smokeless

I assumed this happened decades ago.

POBox19

About time.

EmmetSpiceland

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I assumed this happened decades ago.

Yeah, I thought the same but that was only in Dublin.

willabur

coconnellz wrote: »

I Think they will be allowed as it's smokeless

not the way I smoke

Gregor Samsa

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Yeah, I thought the same but that was only in Dublin.

All the cities and most of the major towns in the country have been added to the ban over the years.

Here's an interactive map showing the areas where smokey coal is banned (blue areas were only added last year):

https://dcenr.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=feee728a0ee1427d9a3973a090a9f292

EmmetSpiceland

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

All the cities and most of the major towns in the country have been added to the ban over the years.

Here's an interactive map showing the areas where smokey coal is banned (blue areas were only added last year):

https://dcenr.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=feee728a0ee1427d9a3973a090a9f292

Another tax on rural Ireland.

Aongus Von Bismarck

I'm surprised this wasn't in place already. Good news, along with the end of commercial peat harvesting for low quality fuel.

Drifter50

coconnellz wrote: »

New regulations being proposed by the government to ban the sale of smoky coal and unseasoned timber, RTE news : Govt proposing national ban on sale of smoky coal

http://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0218/1197804-smoky-coal/

IN urban areas there is a point to this but not in rural locations. Not many people near me would even dream using smoke free coal unless they have a stove. Most rural folk use the real fire. At least I have a local bog that I can cut turf off.
Lots of former Bord na Mona people around as well with no future. People who have spent their entire working life in Bord na Mona and who are now 50 plus with no future but the labour. 30 years ago Bord na Mona was a job for life, sure the peat will never run out, most of the midlands is a bog but nobody saw Bord na Mona being wound down. Sad times

Zaph

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Yeah, I thought the same but that was only in Dublin.

Tell that to my neighbours. They must be the last people in the country using a back boiler, and the amount of crap that comes out of their chimney is appalling sometimes. I don't know where they get their coal from, but it definitely isn't smokeless.

RandomViewer

If its a health issue surely smoking should be banned as well,

Padre_Pio

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Another tax on rural Ireland.

Go out and cut some sticks.

murpho999

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Another tax on rural Ireland.

How is it? Why can't rural people use smokeless alternatives like urban people?

This is good legislation that will improve air quality and ultimately save lives.

It just seems that rural people seem to be against any progress at all.

RandomViewer

murpho999 wrote: »

How is it? Why can't rural people use smokeless alternatives like urban people?

This is good legislation that will improve air quality and ultimately save lives.

It just seems that rural people seem to be against any progress at all.

Smokeless coal is usually more expensive and gives poorer heat and you use more, there would need to be proper standards and price regulation,

RandomViewer

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Go out and cut some sticks.

Is there a test to say they are seasoned or will Eamo come over and sprinkle some cayenne pepper on them

RandomViewer

Whatever the pros and cons of this the overarching view will be that the government is trying to micromanage peoples lives and choices, this will cost votes for FF and FG

ShyMets

There will be no living in rural Ireland at this rate

CoBo55

Zaph wrote: »

Tell that to my neighbours. They must be the last people in the country using a back boiler, and the amount of crap that comes out of their chimney is appalling sometimes. I don't know where they get their coal from, but it definitely isn't smokeless.

Same here in Enniscorthy, it was grand for a while but the boys in the transit with the cheap smokey coal are back!! Bloody stuff is stinking. I haven't had a scrap of solid fuel in my house since 2000, don't miss it either.

CoBo55

ShyMets wrote: »

There will be no living in rural Ireland at this rate

Why not? There are plenty and a lot less labour intensive methods of heating your home available, 1970 is long gone...

John_Rambo

ShyMets wrote: »

There will be no living in rural Ireland at this rate

It's ok. They banned smokey coal thirty years ago in Dublin and we're still living. You're made or tough stuff, I'm sure you'll survive this too.

mikhail

Burning coal for heat is bloody archaic anyway. It's a disaster for air quality. Hell, coal burning stations release more radioactivity than actual nuclear power. I don't know if the smokeless stuff is any better on that front, but every little helps.

I hope the government gives some thought to fuel poverty though: if this makes it a bit dearer to heat a house, they need to make sure pensioners aren't sitting perished in their 19th century hovels with a BER rating of "WTF is a BER rating?". Grants to rip out coal-burning heating systems and replace them would be a bit gentler to the same ultimate effect, I think.

ShyMets

John_Rambo wrote: »

It's ok. They banned smokey coal thirty years ago in Dublin and we're still living. You're made or tough stuff, I'm sure you'll survive this too.

I know. Slow day in work so thought I'd throw out the rural Ireland comment

CoBo55

ShyMets wrote: »

I know. Slow day in work so thought I'd throw out the rural Ireland comment

Go and fill the coal scuttle and stop messing around on that computer, chop a bit of kindling for the morning while you're out there:D:D

elperello

ShyMets wrote: »

I know. Slow day in work so thought I'd throw out the rural Ireland comment

It's not so much an anti rural measure but more designed to prevent smoky coal finding it's way into urban areas.

A house on it's own site in the country burning coal is not going to cause as bad an air quality problem.

However once the fuel is imported unscrupulous dealers will sell it in towns as well as to rural customers.

John_Rambo

elperello wrote: »

It's not so much an anti rural measure but more designed to prevent smoky coal finding it's way into urban areas.

A house on it's own site in the country burning coal is not going to cause as bad an air quality problem.

However once the fuel is imported unscrupulous dealers will sell it in towns as well as to rural customers.

Said 442,669 house owners on their own site in the country!

Del2005

RandomViewer wrote: »

Smokeless coal is usually more expensive and gives poorer heat and you use more, there would need to be proper standards and price regulation,

When smokeless coal first came in to Dublin we burnt through a few grates with the heat of the smokeless coal, never had any bother with smokey coal. 30 years later and my Dad still can't figure out that you don't get flames from smokeless coal so he's never got good heat because he's constantly moving it to get flames, if you leave it alone it will give plenty of heat.

cruizer101

It would seem anywhere over 10,000 population its currently banned.
I see no harm banning it completely, lot easier to manage then, as it is I'm sure plenty purchase it outside of their area and burn it in restricted area.
Good to try and encourage people away from coal altogether as a fuel.

SEPT 23 1989

this has been the law in the pale since Harney's reign of terror

John_Rambo

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

this has been the law in the pale since Harney's reign of terror

It's ok though. Much less smog in the capital. You can really smell the difference when you arrive in a small provincial town or village that's using smokey coal, that awful burning smell hanging in the damp.

RandomViewer wrote: »

Is there a test to say they are seasoned or will Eamo come over and sprinkle some cayenne pepper on them

Modern stoves won't burn damp wood.

AllGunsBlazing

John_Rambo wrote: »

It's ok though. Much less smog in the capital. You can really smell the difference when you arrive in a small provincial town or village that's using smokey coal, that awful burning smell hanging in the damp.

How long do you have to live in Dublin before you no longer notice all the other smells?

joebloggs32

murpho999 wrote: »

How is it? Why can't rural people use smokeless alternatives like urban people?

This is good legislation that will improve air quality and ultimately save lives.

It just seems that rural people seem to be against any progress at all.

We are not on the natural gas network like the city slickers.

Burning smokey coal in condensed urban areas obviously causes major problems for air quality, but if you are living in an isolated rural area the density of particles in the air will be greatly reduced and the public health impact is much less severe.

I should add i myself burn some coal, and only use the smokeless, but it really comes down to cost. Most people where i live wiil burn turf, which i do as the bogs are literally on our doorsteps. Its the cost. There may be a lot of labour, but bu saving it yourself it really cuts out a lot of expense in heating your home.

John_Rambo

AllGunsBlazing wrote: »

How long do you have to live in Dublin before you no longer notice all the other smells?

Since the smokey coal ban Pre-covid Dublin City woke up to the smell of roasting coffee beans and the salty tang that comes with coastal cities. As the day goes on it's generally food smells in the city centre and as you travel out you're in to suburbia and then farming North, mountains South.... Very fresh. Generally it takes people no time to get used to the smells.

But hey... although we can learn lots from the capital, lets not make this a Dublin centric thread.

.anon.

I lived in Rurdal Iredland for a few years and the absolute worst thing about it (apart from the people) was the oppressive stench of smoke lingering in the air.

KildareP

I'm near bogland and there's generational claims to sections of bog that are used to fuel all of their family homes.

The neighbour is one of them, and is year round burning turf, wood offcuts and their own household rubbish in the stanley for heat and hot water - there's days you'd swear they'd a blazing chimney fire judging by the billowing smoke and horrible stench coming out of their chimney. I'm surprised they haven't had an actual chimney fire to be honest.

Good luck convincing them to go and buy smokeless coal or put in a nice air to water heat pump to do their bit for the environment!

mickster29

My cute hoor neighbour living in the City, gets a truck load of turf delivered to his home every year. They are well off but enjoy smoking all his neighbours out of it. Tells us that he is doing nothing illegal and mind our own business. The smoke and particulate matter is dreadful. I have got to a stage where I may have no option but to move.

murpho999

RandomViewer wrote: »

Smokeless coal is usually more expensive and gives poorer heat and you use more, there would need to be proper standards and price regulation,

What's that to do with rural people though? Urban people have the same problem.

Also, instead of burning stuff they should look at more modern central heating methods.

murpho999

ShyMets wrote: »

There will be no living in rural Ireland at this rate

Really? Is it smoky coal that's keeping people living in the country? Is that why they're there.

Totally ridiculous and non-progressive argument.

murpho999

joebloggs32 wrote: »

We are not on the natural gas network like the city slickers.

Burning smokey coal in condensed urban areas obviously causes major problems for air quality, but if you are living in an isolated rural area the density of particles in the air will be greatly reduced and the public health impact is much less severe.

I should add i myself burn some coal, and only use the smokeless, but it really comes down to cost. Most people where i live wiil burn turf, which i do as the bogs are literally on our doorsteps. Its the cost. There may be a lot of labour, but bu saving it yourself it really cuts out a lot of expense in heating your home.

There's other options, heat pumps , electric (modern ones are efficient) and even thermal heating.
Burning has to stop and your argument about being isolated is not valid if everyone is doing it.

RandomViewer

murpho999 wrote: »

What's that to do with rural people though? Urban people have the same problem.

Also, instead of burning stuff they should look at more modern central heating methods.

Money isn't there, people have become very debt averse, telling people in their 60s and 70s they've to spend 15-20k to replace a range/stove,