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Ford going all electric in Europe

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,907 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    Now, bring the F150 EV here!!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 137 ✭✭ latency89


    Always wanted an Electric Focus

    60kWh, 250bhp,150kW DC, 0-100 6s, €30,000

    Surely that's possible by 2025


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,198 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    latency89 wrote: »
    Always wanted an Electric Focus

    60kWh, 250bhp,150kW DC, 0-100 6s, €30,000

    Surely that's possible by 2025

    It is possible considering what VW are delivering today

    .... ID.3 has 58kWh, 204bhp, 100kW DC, 0-100 7s, €33k

    Your wish list isnt a big stretch up from there.

    Not sure Ford will deliver it at €30k though or that they will manage it by 2025. They are a decade behind.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 137 ✭✭ latency89


    KCross wrote: »
    It is possible considering what VW are delivering today

    .... ID.3 has 58kWh, 204bhp, 100kW DC, 0-100 7s, €33k

    Your wish list isnt a big stretch up from there.

    Not sure Ford will deliver it at €30k though or that they will manage it by 2025. They are a decade behind.

    Yeah the ID3 isn't far off it all, great car

    Needs a bit more range, bit quicker, bit faster charging to hit my dream mild hatch


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,083 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    KCross wrote: »
    Not sure Ford will deliver it at €30k though or that they will manage it by 2025. They are a decade behind.

    Wouldn't call them a decade behind, they've announced will be using VW's MEB platform, so should be caught up pretty much immediately.

    https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/ford/354315/ford-fiesta-plant-build-new-mini-mustang-mach-e-electric-car-2023
    First car is a small crossover due in 2023.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭ pdpmur


    KCross wrote: »
    They are a decade behind.

    Its reported sharing of the VW MEB platform along with the tech it already has in its Mach-E would suggest otherwise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,198 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    liamog wrote: »
    Wouldn't call them a decade behind, they've announced will be using VW's MEB platform, so should be caught up pretty much immediately.

    https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/ford/354315/ford-fiesta-plant-build-new-mini-mustang-mach-e-electric-car-2023
    First car is a small crossover due in 2023.
    pdpmur wrote: »
    Its reported sharing of the VW MEB platform along with the tech it already has in its Mach-E would suggest otherwise.

    There is more to it than having access to the MEB platform. It certainly doesnt make them "caught up immediately".

    Where is the battery capacity coming from? They are very late to the game. You dont just flash the cheque book to make that happen. It takes years.

    If they cant scale the cars they develop it could make for a very difficult time ahead.

    They delivered a compliance electric focus in the US a few years back which was an atrocious effort and showed just how far behind they were. Mach-e appears to be better but thats at the premium end.... the electric focus that latency89 is wishing for is what they need to be able to deliver at scale.... lets see what they do.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,083 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    KCross wrote: »
    There is more to it than having access to the MEB platform. It certainly doesnt make them "caught up immediately".

    Where is the battery capacity coming from? They are very late to the game. You dont just flash the cheque book to make that happen. It takes years.

    What do they have to catch up on? Building an electrified platform? Nope, that's done by using MEB. Building battery cells? Nope that's done by placing an order with a supplier and making sure the order is of a suitable size.

    We've seen the same issues reported every time a manufacturer reports that will be scaling EV production, won't somebody think of the batteries is turning into a mute argument. The major problem is scaling immediately, not in time for a production car that's indicated to be available in 2 years time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,198 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    liamog wrote: »
    What do they have to catch up on? Building an electrified platform? Nope, that's done by using MEB. Building battery cells? Nope that's done by placing an order with a supplier and making sure the order is of a suitable size.

    Well, we disagree then liam. You are basically saying flash the chequebook and away you go. I'm saying it doesnt work that way. It takes years to scale up battery capacity to the likes of VW, Ford and Toyota volumes.

    Ford will have no problem getting batteries, but they'll have to wait for that capacity to be built out to meet this lofty goal of all electric by 2030. 2 years wont do it.

    liamog wrote: »
    We've seen the same issues reported every time a manufacturer reports that will be scaling EV production, won't somebody think of the batteries is turning into a mute argument. The major problem is scaling immediately, not in time for a production car that's indicated to be available in 2 years time.

    Its not though. It is the single biggest bottleneck for scaling up. But at least you said "turning into" rather than its already moot! :)

    Chasis, motors, body panels etc are all easy and readily available and scaled up... batteries and battery material/mining, not so much.


    And possibly a big issue for Ford and this plan also is that they are now at the mercy of VW and battery suppliers to meet the goal. They had more control and competition for engine and drivetrains for ICE. They are losing competitiveness now because they are behind in their own R&D.... great for VW, not so great for Ford.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,083 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    The lead time on adequate battery manufacturing plant appears to be around 2 to 3 years. Ford announcing an end to ICE production for 2030 in Europe means they have plenty of time to meet forecast demand.
    The only recent examples where a manufacturer has been supply constrained on the battery side, are due to them failing to forecast the demand adequately, and therefore having to wait another 2/3 years to increase the battery order :D


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