Is a little knowledge a dangerous thing?

Afgan

Hello Folks,
I just have a simple query please. Doing a little building work and plumber has finished first fix. I am getting on now, however, all my life I have had either a range or stove, even before we used circulation pumps as a kid. There was one fundamental principle (at least as I learned it) Hot water rises.
I had the stove set up so that the cylinder was directly overhead in attic dormer. Plenty of space. I though he would run the pipes straight up. Timber frame so very easy. Instead, he has turned the pipes down to pump which is 6 inches above ground, then pipes run along below floor to the boiler, and there he connects with the boiler pipes going up to the attic.
I have queried him and he says its no problem with the circulation pump. I thought he could put the pump in the attic, beside the cylinder or anywhere really, but he says pump must be beside stove. So I will have to build something to hide it.
He does have the 1 inch safety vent pipe in place with an air vent. I am not looking for an argument or questioning his work. He has not plumbed a full house before and I just looking for a second opinion to know if this pipework is safe.
Thank You

jimf

im no plumber a few of the other lads here are dtp and k flyer will see this and give their opinions

but from your post above i cant see how you have an unrestricted gravity circuit in the event of a power cut

as for having the pump beside stove again i cant see why i can understand having the pipe stat to activate the pump there but dont know about the pump itself

corkgsxr

It seems you have no gravity circuit.

Power trips or stat issue it can blow up.

CoBo55

I would not be happy with that at all. Is the stove being added into the system?

Dtp1979

He has not plumbed a full house before? Is he an apprentice? Either way, what you’ve described would lead me to believe the lad hasn’t a clue what he’s doing. Not only is it wrong but it’s also extremely dangerous. Get somebody in for a second opinion. Post your location and someone will hopefully recommend a person to you

Lenar3556

Dtp1979 wrote: »

He has not plumbed a full house before? Is he an apprentice? Either way, what you’ve described would lead me to believe the lad hasn’t a clue what he’s doing. Not only is it wrong but it’s also extremely dangerous. Get somebody in for a second opinion. Post your location and someone will hopefully recommend a person to you

I can see some potential concerns with what is described, but haven’t seen the extreme danger - could you enlighten us?

Dtp1979

Lenar3556 wrote: »

I can see some potential concerns with what is described, but haven’t seen the extreme danger - could you enlighten us?

A. The installer is an idiot. That’s the biggest issue when playing with an uncontrollable heat source.

B. There’s no gravity circuit. God knows what other valves he has installed on the non-gravity primary circuit. Pump valve for a start.

Afgan

its a new system. He says he has done this before without issue with a stove. I have paid him full price today and he is gone, but this still knags at me. I felt it was wrong but didn't want to argue with a professional. I had left out a section overhead in ceiling so he didn't even need to drill anything to run pipes from stove up stairs to cylinder overhead. There is about 8 feet between stove and boiler on ground floor. I had placed the cylinder between the 2 on a bearing wall in the attic. He moved the cylinder closer to boiler and has done all pipework between boiler and cylinder. Hence, he then simply brought the stove pipes down under the floor to boiler.

CoBo55

Are both the stove and the boiler sharing the same heating coil in the cylinder?

Dtp1979

Afgan wrote: »

its a new system. He says he has done this before without issue with a stove. I have paid him full price today and he is gone, but this still knags at me. I felt it was wrong but didn't want to argue with a professional. I had left out a section overhead in ceiling so he didn't even need to drill anything to run pipes from stove up stairs to cylinder overhead. There is about 8 feet between stove and boiler on ground floor. I had placed the cylinder between the 2 on a bearing wall in the attic. He moved the cylinder closer to boiler and has done all pipework between boiler and cylinder. Hence, he then simply brought the stove pipes down under the floor to boiler.

These types of lads were trained in housing estates where the only 1” pipe they saw was in collage and the only solid fuel appliance they came across were in catalogs.
As I said in my first post, it’s dangerous. This guy is not a professional. Get a professional in. Post pics if you can

Afgan

I think they do share the same coil Cob.
He is about 45 years old and not an apprentice. He usually does small jobs. When I queried him he said if anything ever happen with the power the vent pipe was there for that reason.
I appreciate the replies but they don't make me feel any better. It was expensive and I don't know what the reaction will be if I ask him back.

Dtp1979

Afgan wrote: »

I think they do share the same coil Cob.
He is about 45 years old and not an apprentice. He usually does small jobs. When I queried him he said if anything ever happen with the power the vent pipe was there for that reason.
I appreciate the replies but they don't make me feel any better. It was expensive and I don't know what the reaction will be if I ask him back.

The chap is a cowboy. Plain and simple. To be fair, it’s your own fault for hiring a cowboy. I’m telling you as a professional, that his work is completely wrong and also dangerous. It’s up to you what to do after that.

eamon11

bit harsh there blaming the customer for plumbers mistakes. Its like saying its not the kids fault its the parents.
Is he vat registered etc?

Afgan

the guy came recommended. He pays vat. He is expensive. So unless he had a sign on his head it was kind of hard to know.

eamon11

had a plumber once and after a few days watching him work I got the impression that something was not quite right and asked another plumber to have a look. "I will never go in another mans work" which he said was the general consensus among plumbers. Protect their own.

Dtp1979

Afgan wrote: »

the guy came recommended. He pays vat. He is expensive. So unless he had a sign on his head it was kind of hard to know.

He told you he never plumbed a full house. What more warning do you want!!
He’s expensive means he’s an overcharging cowboy. You got stung big time chief. Get a professional in to correct his work.

jimf

Dtp1979 wrote: »

He told you he never plumbed a full house. What more warning do you want!!
He’s expensive means he’s an overcharging cowboy. You got stung big time chief. Get a professional in to correct his work.

jesus dtp i think the poor chap realises he made a mistake

K.Flyer

Coming in late on this..
Just to concur with what's been said, it's plumbed wrong and best to have it rectified.
In fairness to not being able to tell who to trust..
Unfortunately there are people out there installing these items and causing no end of problems.
A good customer of mine, because of their central heating pipework, went against my advise about having a wood stove installed in order to utilise an abundance of free fuel at their disposal.
The got an installation company who advertise their services to fit one. In short, they made a Horlicks of it.
Pex pipe was used and flooded the place. Then they fecked up the central heating and caused no end of pitching and damp issues in the attic.
Long story short, it went legal, they got their money back and I tore it all out and put the heating system all back to the way it was before.
Poor workmanship comes in many guises.

Cerco

eamon11 wrote: »

had a plumber once and after a few days watching him work I got the impression that something was not quite right and asked another plumber to have a look. "I will never go in another mans work" which he said was the general consensus among plumbers. Protect their own.

I have heard that kind of response about doctors, solicitors etc etc.I doubt any qualified plumber would leave a person in peril with a dangerous installation irrespective of who installed it.

CoBo55

K.Flyer wrote: »

Coming in late on this..
Just to concur with what's been said, it's plumbed wrong and best to have it rectified.
In fairness to not being able to tell who to trust..
Unfortunately there are people out there installing these items and causing no end of problems.
A good customer of mine, because of their central heating pipework, went against my advise about having a wood stove installed in order to utilise an abundance of free fuel at their disposal.
The got an installation company who advertise their services to fit one. In short, they made a Horlicks of it.
Pex pipe was used and flooded the place. Then they fecked up the central heating and caused no end of pitching and damp issues in the attic.
Long story short, it went legal, they got their money back and I tore it all out and put the heating system all back to the way it was before.
Poor workmanship comes in many guises.

Did you put in the stove?

upupup

Afgan wrote: »

I think they do share the same coil Cob.
He is about 45 years old and not an apprentice. He usually does small jobs. When I queried him he said if anything ever happen with the power the vent pipe was there for that reason.
I appreciate the replies but they don't make me feel any better. It was expensive and I don't know what the reaction will be if I ask him back.

Where is the vent pipe located and where does it go?...this is the most important pipe in this set up.

K.Flyer

CoBo55 wrote: »

Did you put in the stove?

Christ No!
Read the post again, they got someone else to do it after I advised them against it.
I told them that their heating system was not suitable for having a stove installed and connected to it.
But they got suckered into having one installed by someone who didn't bother to look at their heating system first.
They came back me when it all went wrong to help them rectify the situation.