What Can a Beneficiary Do?

Senpar

Has anyone come across a situation where a solicitor who wrote a will claimed to act on behalf of the executor. The named executor was not known to any family member.

The beneficiaries were unable to make contact with the executor because the solicitor would not give them the correct address of the executor, although did give several incorrect addresses.

The CGT has been paid but the solicitor refuses to hand over the keys or the deeds to the house to the named beneficiary of the house.

Claw Hammer

Has there been a grant of probate?

nuac

Mod
Beneficiaries should consult their solicitor asap

Senpar

Yes.

Solicitor applied for probate.
CGT was paid.
Solicitor has keys to house and refuses to hand them over.

huskerdu

But, has probate been actually granted, not applied for.

Senpar

Yes.

Probate was granted before CGT was paid.

It was expected that as soon as CGT was paid the solicitor would hand over the keys.

Peregrinus

Senpar wrote: »

Has anyone come across a situation where a solicitor who wrote a will claimed to act on behalf of the executor. The named executor was not known to any family member.

The beneficiaries were unable to make contact with the executor because the solicitor would not give them the correct address of the executor, although did give several incorrect addresses.

The CGT has been paid but the solicitor refuses to hand over the keys or the deeds to the house to the named beneficiary of the house.

You omit to mention what reason the solicitor gives for not handing over the assets. You don't even say if anyone has asked him.

When you're looking for advice on a legal situation, don't drip-feed information chosen to make the situation look outrageous; give all the relevant information, including information that might not be helpful to your case, or that might help to explain or contextualise the actions you are complaining about. Don't wait to be asked.

Senpar

The beneficiary was informed that once the CGT was paid (after the probate went through) he was entitled to receive the keys and deeds to the house. This didn't happen.

The solicitor was asked why this did not happen and has not replied. There is a pattern of the solicitor's not engaging over approximately two years.

Without any explanation, the contents of the house were removed and when asked to explain why, the solicitor said he would not enter into correspondence on the matter.

The contents are not my focus. What I'm asking is if anyone has had difficulty getting the keys from the solicitor after the CGT has been paid?

Claw Hammer

Senpar wrote: »

The benefactor was informed that once the CGT was paid (after the probate went through) he was entitled to receive the keys and deeds to the house. This didn't happen.

The solicitor was asked why this did not happen and has not replied. There is a pattern of the solicitor's not engaging over approximately two years.

Without any explanation, the contents of the house were removed and when asked to explain why, the solicitor said he would not enter into correspondence on the matter.

The contents are not my focus. What I'm asking is if anyone has had difficulty getting the keys from the solicitor after the CGT has been paid?

First it was a beneficiary now it is a benefactor. Did you obtain a copy of the grant of probate and a copy of the will?

Senpar

Thanks for spotting that. I meant beneficiary. I've edited to fix it.

Both the grant of probate and a copy of the will have been obtained.

Pistachio19

The beneficiary needs to get their own solicitor to engage with the other solicitor. Has the house even been transferred into the beneficiaries name yet?

Senpar

The house has not been transferred into the beneficiary's name, and Cornona is not an excuse.

Unfortunately it looks as though legal proceedings are necessary.

Luckily it seems that this is not a common issue, as there are many views on this thread, but no-one seems to have experienced the same.

Thank you for your comments.

Peregrinus

Senpar wrote: »

The beneficiary was informed that once the CGT was paid (after the probate went through) he was entitled to receive the keys and deeds to the house. This didn't happen.

The beneficiary was misinformed. The house is in the possession of the executor and he is responsible for it until he completes the transfer to the beneficiary (which he should do without delay). The beneficiary has no right to either the keys or the title deeds until the transfer is completed (unless, of course, he was already living in the house at the date of death) though it's commong for executors and beneficiaries to make arrangements for this, where general trust and goodwill prevails.

Senpar wrote: »

The solicitor was asked why this did not happen and has not replied. There is a pattern of the solicitor's not engaging over approximately two years.

This is poor practice, obviously, but bear in mind that the solicitor acts for the executor, and owes his duties to him. It is the executor who is entitled to complain that the solicitor is ignoring the business of the estate.

Senpar wrote: »

Without any explanation, the contents of the house were removed and when asked to explain why, the solicitor said he would not enter into correspondence on the matter.

Who were the contents left to?

Senpar wrote: »

The contents are not my focus. What I'm asking is if anyone has had difficulty getting the keys from the solicitor after the CGT has been paid?

Mmm. Have you any idea why the executor might be delaying in progressing the administration of the estate? Is it just inattention to the business in hand, or is the executor benefitting in any way from the delay? Is the executor also a beneficiary? Is anybody living in or using the house right now?

seagull

You could always apply to have the executor removed.

Claw Hammer

There is a possibility that the estate has debts and the house might have to be sold to pay the debts. There has been no assent by the executor to the beneficiary so keys and deeds would not be released. Who is paying the solicitor for dealing with queries from beneficiaries who are not his clients?

Senpar

We only have the solicitor's word that they are acting on behalf of the executor. The family has had no contact with the executor as the solicitor has given incorrect contact information more than once.

The contents were included in the residual stuff. The house was the only specified item. The solicitor has not contacted the residual beneficiaries, despite requesting and being given all contact details more than once.

I don't know why this solicitor is delaying. I don't know if the executor is involved at all. The executor is not a beneficiary.

Is it not too late to have the executor removed as the solicitor has put it through probate already?

Senpar

There are no debts on the estate.

The solicitor is only dealing with the named beneficiary.

There was no clause in the will regarding payment.

Claw Hammer

Senpar wrote: »

We only have the solicitor's word that they are acting on behalf of the executor. The family has had no contact with the executor as the solicitor has given incorrect contact information more than once.

The contents were included in the residual stuff. The house was the only specified item. The solicitor has not contacted the residual beneficiaries, despite requesting and being given all contact details more than once.

I don't know why this solicitor is delaying. I don't know if the executor is involved at all. The executor is not a beneficiary.

Is it not too late to have the executor removed as the solicitor has put it through probate already?

You can find the executor's contact details from the grant of probate. The solicitor must be acting on someone's instructions. If there is no activity you can apply to remove the executor at any time. The solicitor wouldn't contact residuary beneficiaries unless he was going to make a distribution to them. There won't be a distribution for 6 months after the grant of probate in any event.
You don't say whether the estate has debts or not nor who is paying the solicitor for dealing with queries from putative beneficiaries.

Senpar

We got the grant of probate. The executor's address on it was incorrect.

The solicitor claims to be acting on the executor's instructions. The executor is unknown to the family and the solicitor has given us incorrect contact details several times.

The grant of probate was more than 6 months ago.
The house is empty and we have no access to it.

The estate has no debts.
The named beneficiary is the only person dealing with the solicitor.

It looks as though removing the executor is the way to go.

Thank you.

Pistachio19

It's time the named beneficiary got their own solicitor involved.

Claw Hammer

Senpar wrote: »

There are no debts on the estate.

The solicitor is only dealing with the named beneficiary.

There was no clause in the will regarding payment.

If there is no clause in the will about payment the solicitor must have issued a Section 150 letter to the executor who is paying him. How do you know there are no debts of the estse unless you have estate accounts. Have you complained to the probate office about an incorrect address for the executor?
have you complained to the LSRA about the fact that the solicitor furnished an incorrect address. Does the wil name the executor and give the executor's address?

Peregrinus

Senpar wrote: »

We got the grant of probate. The executor's address on it was incorrect.

The solicitor claims to be acting on the executor's instructions.

Have you any reason to doubt that he is?

Senpar wrote: »

The executor is unknown to the family . . .

This is interesting and unusual. Can you say a bit more about it? Obviously you don't know him personally, but have you any idea who he is, or why the testator might have chosen him as executor? Is there a reason why the executor wouldhn't have chosen the principal beneficiary as executor, whcih is the obvious and usual course.

From what you say, the executor is not a beneficiary under the will and therefore has no personal interest in seeing the estate administered, in which case why would the testator expect him to administer the estate, and why would he agree to do so? Is he a professional who will be paid to administer the estate?

Senpar wrote: »

. . . and the solicitor has given us incorrect contact details several times.

The executor is not obliged to give you his contact details. He may prefer to deal with you through his solicitor. It would, though, be more appropriate for the solicitor to say "the executor does not wish me to give you his contact details" than to give false details.

Senpar wrote: »

It looks as though removing the executor is the way to go.

Or at least threatening to do so. It does look to me as though it might be time for the beneficiary to instruct his own solicitor to write a sharp letter to the executor's solicitor. The ideal solution here is not removing and replacing the executor; it's the executor getting his finger out, proceeding with the administration of the estate and giving a full account of how he has administered it.

Senpar

The house was cleared so we don't have estate accounts. The probate form shows bank accounts in credit.

Thank you for the information on the LRSA. I have googled their website. It is useful and can be followed up.

The will names the executor but the address on it was from decades ago and the executor had long moved out.

The reason I doubt that the solicitor is acting on the executor's instructions is that no-one has been able to track the executor down: Family, friends, former co-workers. The family offered to execute the will and asked to speak to the executor but weren't able to make contact.

The will was written decades ago. The executor was a colleague / friend of the testator at that time. If there were an agreement for payment between the executor and testator it wasn't written into the will.

I would love to know how the executor's thought process behind how they are administering this will, if they are, in fact, involved.

Thank you for your comments.

Peregrinus

The solicitor would be taking a huge personal, professional and legal risk in acting without any instructions, and it's not clear what he would have to gain from it. Among other things, I think he'd have had to forge the executor's signature on documents lodged in court and, for something like that, if done to perpetrate a fraud, we are looking at striking off plus gaol time. And there'd be a very high risk of detection.

So, it's very unlikely that he's doing this. But, if he is, he must be absolutely desperate, or simply insane. So if you really think that could have happened, lawyer, now. Do not waste any further time on Boards.

beauf

There are loads of news articles and threads on this forum and other about non performing solicitors. I wouldn't be delaying about getting your own solicitor working on this. Preferably one with experience in this.

Dolbhad

The solicitors client is the executor, not the beneficiary. They take instructions from the executor and it’s the executor that owes the duty to the beneficiaries. The solicitor can’t just give keys to a main asset of the estate to a beneficiary until the beneficiary is the legal owner do the house or executor allows them to. And the executor has to sign the assent to ownerships.

The issue seems to be with the executor. Best thing you can do it engage your own solicitor and have them correspond with the executor solicitor so see what is happening.

Claw Hammer

Senpar wrote: »

The house was cleared so we don't have estate accounts. The probate form shows bank accounts in credit.

Thank you for the information on the LRSA. I have googled their website. It is useful and can be followed up.

The will names the executor but the address on it was from decades ago and the executor had long moved out.

The reason I doubt that the solicitor is acting on the executor's instructions is that no-one has been able to track the executor down: Family, friends, former co-workers. The family offered to execute the will and asked to speak to the executor but weren't able to make contact.

The will was written decades ago. The executor was a colleague / friend of the testator at that time. If there were an agreement for payment between the executor and testator it wasn't written into the will.

I would love to know how the executor's thought process behind how they are administering this will, if they are, in fact, involved.

Thank you for your comments.

The grant of probate would have to have the addresss the executor as of thye date of swearing the oath to administer the will. Is that the same as the address on the will?