Summons and follow on summons query

wingnut

A friend (really) stopped at checkpoint last year, no licence on them (lost it previously). Asked to produce at local station. This was during the last lockdown so they explained this to the local station they couldn't travel to NDLS at present who said it was ok. They had the licence replaced a few weeks later (requiring a stamp from local garda station). Fast forward this week got summons for five offences.

1. Not producing a licence when stopped.
2. Not producing it and insurance cert within 10 days to garda station.
3. Not having insurance displayed when stopped (Not true - the disc was on the car).
4. Not being insured (not true - have proof of insurance for the period)
5. Not having a valid licence to drive (not true the card was misplaced but had a full licence).

So the first summons is valid, the second arguable as the local station said it was ok. Summons 3,4,5 are totally untrue and can be proven (well can't prove the disc was there but insurance policy was in force in her name and licence was valid).

What is the best course of action.

1. Write/call to the garda in question. Are they most likely to persist with 1 and 2 when proof is provided that 3,4,5 is not valid.
2. Go to court, prove 3,4,5 are not valid and hope the judge dismisses all of them.
3. Engage a solicitor.

This person has never been in court before. I have seen these cases appear before and I figure without a solicitor worst case scenario is a €50 fine. Could a solicitor get the whole thing thrown out before or on the day?

Claw Hammer

wingnut wrote: »

A friend (really) stopped at checkpoint last year, no licence on them (lost it previously). Asked to produce. This was during the last lockdown so they explained this to the local station who it was ok and had the licence replaced (requiring a stamp from local garda station). Fast forward this week got summons for five offences.

1. Not producing a licence when stopped.
2. Not producing it and insurance cert within 10 days to garda station.
3. Not having insurance displayed when stopped (Not true - the disc was on the car).
4. Not being insured (not true - have proof of insurance for the period)
5. Not having a valid licence to drive (not true the card was misplaced but had a full licence).

So the first summons is valid, the second arguable as the local station said it was ok. Summons 3,4,5 are totally untrue and can be proven (well can't prove the disc was there but insurance policy was in force in her name and licence was valid).

What is the best course of action.

1. Write/call to the garda in question. Are they most likely to persist with 1 and 2 when proof is provided that 3,4,5 is not valid.
2. Go to court, prove 3,4,5 are not valid and hope the judge dismisses all of them.
3. Engage a solicitor.

This person has never been in court before.

The person should go and see the prosecuting guard and explain what happened and show all documents.
They should then go to court after that (no matter what the guard says) and if necessary tell the judge what happened and show the documents.
At all events they should see the guard before the matter is called on in court. Most likely it will all be struck out.

Speedline

Speak to the garda if possible. If not, speak to them on the morning of the court appearance. Show them all of your documents. I would be be surprised if it wasn't struck out.

I got 11 different summonses over 1 traffic stop years ago. All that was out was the tax. I did the above, and only got done for the tax.

wingnut

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The person should go and see the prosecuting guard and explain what happened and show all documents.
They should then go to court after that (no matter what the guard says) and if necessary tell the judge what happened and show the documents.
At all events they should see the guard before the matter is called on in court. Most likely it will all be struck out.

Hoping it will all be struck out. Not really worried about the last three as they are provable, but in fairness 1 is valid and 2 is debatable.

Lenar3556

wingnut wrote: »

Hoping it will all be struck out. Not really worried about the last three as they are provable, but in fairness 1 is valid and 2 is debatable.

It’s not debatable - there was no production, and there is no contest on this point.

But the courts are often prepared to overlook that in the circumstances and given that the car was insured, and the driver was in fact licenced to drive.

wingnut

Lenar3556 wrote: »

It’s not debatable - there was no production, and there is no contest on this point.

But the courts are often prepared to overlook that in the circumstances and given that the car was insured, and the driver was in fact licenced to drive.

Fair enough this is true but I guess the argument is an effort was made. She rang the local station to explain it was lost, got the replacement form signed made an appointment with the NDLS she had to move due to being symptomatic. I guess when she explained it to the local garda he had said it's 'fune under the circumstances' but got nothing official from him nor went down when the replacement was issued.

Darc19

Worst case scenario is a driving ban and heavy fine if you get a billergerent Garda and a judge on a bad day and not have all your paperwork together.

The fact that it has gone to summons suggests an incompetent Garda (,there are many)

Have ALL papers ready and two copies of it. Also send a copy to the court clerk.

If in contact with the Garda beforehand, make sure it is in writing.

wingnut

Darc19 wrote: »

Worst case scenario is a driving ban and heavy fine if you get a billergerent Garda and a judge on a bad day and not have all your paperwork together.

The fact that it has gone to summons suggests an incompetent Garda (,there are many)

Have ALL papers ready and two copies of it. Also send a copy to the court clerk.

If in contact with the Garda beforehand, make sure it is in writing.

Lol you are not going to get a driving ban for not having a licence on you first offence. Fine won't be over €100 either.

Claw Hammer

Darc19 wrote: »

Worst case scenario is a driving ban and heavy fine if you get a billergerent Garda and a judge on a bad day and not have all your paperwork together.

The fact that it has gone to summons suggests an incompetent Garda (,there are many)

Have ALL papers ready and two copies of it. Also send a copy to the court clerk.

If in contact with the Garda beforehand, make sure it is in writing.

Most unlikely there will be any fine or ban and there is no basis for sending documents to the court clerk. Once the guard sees the documents beforehand and has time to authenticate them before they are shown in court, there is sufficient notice. If it goes wrong be in court and seek recognizances immediately. Have cash on hand.

Darc19

wingnut wrote: »

Lol you are not going to get a driving ban for not having a licence on you first offence. Fine won't be over €100 either.

Op asked for worst case scenario on having 5 summons.

Not proving you were insured and not proving you were licensed would easily see a ban.

Hence very important to have all paperwork and copies available to prove all was in order.

Claw Hammer

Darc19 wrote: »

Op asked for worst case scenario on having 5 summons.

Not proving you were insured and not proving you were licensed would easily see a ban.

Hence very important to have all paperwork and copies available to prove all was in order.

The o/p can prove he was insured and licensed. He has problems with production and display. There was one old bollocks of a judge in the southeast who used to convict for non production. The majority don't provided the accused was actually insured at the time. The licence was rarely thought of. Most judges would get annoyed withe the guard for proceeding when it is only production or display in issue.

Language!

Eire392

Point number two is actually two seperate offences. Could have produced the insurance cert anyway without the licence.

Tell them show up the morning of and show all to the guard

Eire392

Darc19 wrote: »

Worst case scenario is a driving ban and heavy fine if you get a billergerent Garda and a judge on a bad day and not have all your paperwork together.

The fact that it has gone to summons suggests an incompetent Garda (,there are many)

Have ALL papers ready and two copies of it. Also send a copy to the court clerk.

If in contact with the Garda beforehand, make sure it is in writing.

What's Incompetent about issuing summonses for failing to produce when they didn't produce?

wingnut

Eire392 wrote: »

Point number two is actually two seperate offences. Could have produced the insurance cert anyway without the licence.

Tell them show up the morning of and show all to the guard

As far as they recall they were never asked for insurance as the disc was in the screen.

notabogsnotion

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The person should go and see the prosecuting guard and explain what happened and show all documents.
They should then go to court after that (no matter what the guard says) and if necessary tell the judge what happened and show the documents.
At all events they should see the guard before the matter is called on in court. Most likely it will all be struck out.

Are you actually serious?

punisher5112

They would have been asked to produce.

Whichever station suited them.

If they don't know the Garda in question then go to their local, ask to see the sergeant, have all information and documents and ask questions.

State you couldn't get the replacement in the time and were waiting on the licence to be sent out.


Worst case you still have to goto court you produce to the Gardai there you will see themtothe side at a table, they will end up striking it out once all in order. This is usually how it goes, I've experienced it myself where in Court for other issues

LollipopJimmy

Darc19 wrote: »

Op asked for worst case scenario on having 5 summons.

Not proving you were insured and not proving you were licensed would easily see a ban.

Hence very important to have all paperwork and copies available to prove all was in order.

Would you come on. Worst case scenario here is a wasted morning in court while the case is being struck out. Explain situation to the Guard on morning of court and show documents. Nothing to worry about

Claw Hammer

notabogsnotion wrote: »

Are you actually serious?

Yes. What would you do? This kind of thing happens all the time.