Garden lights - how many on a "string"?

vicwatson

Got these Garden Lights that are a mix of AC 110-240v 9 watt and 85-265v 12 watt


How many of a mix of these can I put in a string i.e. connected successively, safely, that I'd be plugging into an outdoor socket fed from the board in the house, if it matters the plug would have a 13 amp fuse in it?


Thanks for help in advance

2011

vicwatson wrote: »

Got these Garden Lights that are a mix of AC 110-240v 9 watt and 85-265v 12 watt


How many of a mix of these can I put in a string i.e. connected successively, safely, that I'd be plugging into an outdoor socket fed from the board in the house, if it matters the plug would have a 13 amp fuse in it?


Thanks for help in advance

Quite a few, 50 would only be 600W. How may do you want to connect?

A plug isn't a great permanent solution.

vicwatson

Thanks for reply, about 25

What’s the issue with a plug into an outdoor socket connected to mains rcd?

Appreciate the help

...Ghost...

vicwatson wrote: »

Thanks for reply, about 25

What’s the issue with a plug into an outdoor socket connected to mains rcd?

Appreciate the help

Outdoor sockets are really only for very temporary connections, like plugging in the mower, or power washer etc.


You should have a permanent connection from the board for the garden lights with an indoor switch ideally.

alan4cult

vicwatson wrote: »

Thanks for reply, about 25

What’s the issue with a plug into an outdoor socket connected to mains rcd?

Appreciate the help

Because if the outdoor socket trips out the RCD you lose all sockets on that RCD.

Gestureapo

alan4cult wrote: »

Because if the outdoor socket trips out the RCD you lose all sockets on that RCD.

A lot depends if they're 2-wire or 3-wire , presumably 2 ? which is less troublesome for RCD trips

If be taking a close look at the fittings for safety issues before buying a quantity of they're being bought from the grey market

If it as my own place if be considering 10mA protection but you can't cascade that with 30mA ,.needs to be separate too.

2011

Gestureapo wrote: »

A lot depends if they're 2-wire or 3-wire , presumably 2 ? which is less troublesome for RCD trips

What do you mean?

If it as my own place if be considering 10mA protection but you can't cascade that with 30mA ,.needs to be separate too.

You could connect two RCD's in series (cascade) but I'm struggling to see why you would bother.

Gestureapo

2-wire no earth, RCD trips lot less likely


You wouldn't cascade them, no.You wouldn't fit 10mA either if you were contracting

2011

Gestureapo wrote: »

2-wire no earth, RCD trips lot less likely

Not really, no.

Just because a device / appliance / light fitting is double insulated does not mean that an RCD is less likely to trip. Remember that at any point along the circuit there could be a phase to earth fault or a neutral to earth fault. Either of these scenarios would cause an RCD to trip. In addition the ingress of moisture to a double insulated light fitting could cause an RCD to operate.

An RCD is designed to operate if there is a small fault current flowing to earth, you can have this without having an earth wire.

Gestureapo

2011 wrote: »

Not really, no.

Just because a device / appliance / light fitting is double insulated does not mean that an RCD is less likely to trip. Remember that at any point along the circuit there could be a phase to earth fault or a neutral to earth fault. Either of these scenarios would cause an RCD to trip. In addition the ingress of moisture to a double insulated light fitting could cause an RCD to operate.

An RCD is designed to operate if there is a small fault current flowing to earth, you can have this without having an earth wire.

Disagree that double insulated fitting is not less likely to trip RCD

As you say there is still the potential for tripping at poorly made joints

2011

Gestureapo wrote: »

Disagree that double insulated fitting is not less likely to trip RCD

Do you agree that an RCD could trip due to an issue anywhere along the cable feeding a device (even if it is a 2 core cable)?

Also do you agree that ingress of moisture to double insulted lights can cause RCD's to trip?

Because both of the above are factors that need to be considered for garden lights far more than for most other lights.

Gestureapo

2011 wrote: »

Do you agree that an RCD could trip due to an issue anywhere along the cable feeding a device (even if it is a 2 core cable)?

Also do you agree that ingress of moisture to double insulted lights can cause RCD's to trip?

Because both of the above are factors that need to be considered for garden lights far more than for most other lights.

I could answer your points and then i'd counter with mine and so on..

Maybe some other input would help decide

2011

Gestureapo wrote: »

I could answer your points and then i'd counter with mine and so on..

:)

alan4cult

Just a few points of my own on the discussion.

I don't think an RCD tripping less is a useful feature of an RCD. At the the extreme of it never tripping is equivalent to not having one at all!

With regards to 2 wire vs 3 wire, yes this does remove the neutral to earth wire fault but it doesn't remove a live/neutral to earth fault when the human is the earth.

Agreed if something is perfectly insulated then why bother having an earth, but I can snip a wire accidentally (think hedge trimmer) and I'd much rather have the earth wire present despite the device being doubly insulated between plug and handle.

Gestureapo

The first point, the rcd doesn't need to trip in use once the test button is pressed monthly and it trips.

The 2nd point is hard to understand

The 3rd point makes no sense at all to me

Ubbquittious

In theory you could connect about 200 anyway. The inrush current might be high, but dont think its too bad with leds. Just aa little capacitor to fill in each bulb

vicwatson

Gestureapo wrote: »

A lot depends if they're 2-wire or 3-wire , presumably 2 ? which is less troublesome for RCD trips

They are 2 wire lights

Gestureapo

vicwatson wrote: »

They are 2 wire lights

Well I would inspect before buying on bulk

The main considerations are the ;

Quality of the fittings ,

Type and safety of wiring from cable joints to lights,

Control of lights

And jointing

vicwatson

Gestureapo wrote: »

Well I would inspect before buying on bulk

The main considerations are the ;

Quality of the fittings ,

Type and safety of wiring from cable joints to lights,

Control of lights

And jointing

Am happy with all that

2011

alan4cult wrote: »

With regards to 2 wire vs 3 wire, yes this does remove the neutral to earth wire fault but it doesn't remove a live/neutral to earth fault when the human is the earth.

Exactly and a human could make contact with the phase or neutral anywhere along the cabling.

Agreed if something is perfectly insulated then why bother having an earth, but I can snip a wire accidentally (think hedge trimmer) and I'd much rather have the earth wire present despite the device being doubly insulated between plug and handle.

.....and in the case of garden lighting the one of the most suitable cable types would be SWA with the armour earthed. I would think that the greatest risk is from the cabling as it may be partially or completely buried so a spade or similar implement could be put through it.

It is also important to have a CPC within the cable so that if double insulated lights were changed to something requiring an earth at some point in the future an earth it is available.

Gestureapo

2011 wrote: »

Exactly and a human could make contact with the phase or neutral anywhere along the cabling.



.....and in the case of garden lighting the one of the most suitable cable types would be SWA with the armour earthed. I would think that the greatest risk is from the cabling as it may be partially or completely buried so a spade or similar implement could be put through it.

It is also important to have a CPC within the cable so that if double insulated lights were changed to something requiring an earth at some point in the future an earth it is available.

CPC is a regulation

Didn't think we were dicussing shock risk here?


SWA is completely safe having cut through 3P SWA in the rain with a hacksaw in my hand and other times in my careless workout days I can attest

2011

Gestureapo wrote: »

CPC is a regulation

It sure is.

Didn't think we were dicussing shock risk here?

When installing garden lights it is a very important consideration, as is RCD protection.

SWA is completely safe having cut through 3P SWA in the rain with a hacksaw in my hand and other times in my careless workout days I can attest

It is great cable alright as it provides a high degree of mechanical protection which also provides great screening.

Gestureapo

2011 wrote: »

It sure is.



When installing garden lights it is a very important consideration, as is RCD protection.



It is great cable alright as it provides a high degree of mechanical protection which also provides great screening.

Shock risk is important as I mentioned in the considerations

I'm relation to RCD trips no I hadn't included shocks as this is a lesser occurence percentage wise( in fact very low)