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Trucks taking over chargers

  • 09-02-2021 9:45pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 21,406 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    Haha imagine this in Ireland......

    This is why I don't think pure BEV is the solution long term, something is going to have to use FCV as a Rex type system.



Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,871 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    I'll agree a measly 50kW ESB charger won't cut it

    I disagree there'll be a major issue with trucks blocking chargers. For one thing, very few chargers could fit a truck in anyway

    There's going to be big money in it for charging providers when electric trucks come along. Think about how much 300kWh of DC charging is going to cost, and there's no way hauliers will want to be sitting around for a hour waiting on a free charger, they'll demand better charging facilities that are dedicated to trucks only

    Whoever can get in on it early will sweep up the market and make a fortune


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,406 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    I'll agree a measly 50kW ESB charger won't cut it

    I disagree there'll be a major issue with trucks blocking chargers. For one thing, very few chargers could fit a truck in anyway

    There's going to be big money in it for charging providers when electric trucks come along. Think about how much 300kWh of DC charging is going to cost, and there's no way hauliers will want to be sitting around for a hour waiting on a free charger, they'll demand better charging facilities that are dedicated to trucks only

    Whoever can get in on it early will sweep up the market and make a fortune

    I can't see many truck drivers waiting for charging at all if it's going to add an hour or more to their trip.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,915 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    Haha imagine this in Ireland......

    This is why I don't think pure BEV is the solution long term, something is going to have to use FCV as a Rex type system.

    Nah. Have a bit of vision. The battery is not the problem, the lack of (fast) chargers is

    Obviously we are not talking international trucks needing to do 800km in a day here. Not yet anway, maybe in a decade or so. A lot of trucks do just a fraction of that in daily km and are perfectly suitable to be fully BEV (and charge mostly overnight at a depot using cheap renewable electricity)

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,871 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    I can't see many truck drivers waiting for charging at all if it's going to add an hour or more to their trip.

    They are required by law to take regular breaks, for a given duration, so if the charging stops coincide with those breaks then there shouldn't be a problem


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,108 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    Can't see trucks using chargers as blocking them, the more the merrier especially those diesel guzzlers.
    Anyhow, will be decades before you witness that in Ireland


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,150 ✭✭✭ Padre_Pio


    They are required by law to take regular breaks, for a given duration, so if the charging stops coincide with those breaks then there shouldn't be a problem

    Trucks have their own fuel stations, makes sense they would have dedicated charging.

    Higher voltage, higher current, industrial power connectors.
    Maybe even have split batteries and multiple plugs.
    If there was any additional user risk then it's included in the driver's training.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,915 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    slave1 wrote: »
    Can't see trucks using chargers as blocking them, the more the merrier especially those diesel guzzlers.
    Anyhow, will be decades before you witness that in Ireland

    Not if the state removed reclaiming of VAT on diesel and upped the VRT on new diesel trucks by 10% per year from now on :cool:

    China has nearly a million BEV passenger buses. Ireland has 1 :rolleyes:

    It's all about fiscal carrrots and sticks...

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,915 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Padre_Pio wrote: »
    Trucks have their own fuel stations, makes sense they would have dedicated charging.

    Higher voltage, higher current, industrial power connectors.
    Maybe even have split batteries and multiple plugs.

    Quick man maths for a long range truck, that I said earlier would probably not be BEV for another decade. Maybe I was pessimistic.

    Truck driver has to take 45 minute break after 4.5 hours of driving and can't drive more than 9 hours per day. Start day with fully charged truck, after 4.5 hours let's see how much he can charge if the truck has dual 200kWh batteries that can charge at 300-400kW each (that's 2C tops, fairly modest, several current EVs can do more)

    Allowing for a good bit of throttling that means he can charge say on average at 250kW * 2 batteries * 45minutes/60 = 375kWh

    That is over 90kWh per 100km consumption at 90km/h Or about 6 times that of a Tesla Model 3 at that speed. The truck will probably use less?

    QED, long range BEV trucks are already totally feasible if you have charging infrastructure

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,108 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    unkel wrote: »
    Not if the state removed reclaiming of VAT on diesel and upped the VRT on new diesel trucks by 10% per year from now on :cool:

    China has nearly a million BEV passenger buses. Ireland has 1 :rolleyes:

    It's all about fiscal carrrots and sticks...

    Not reality bud, I worked for a part haulage company and the cabs are all diesel, plenty with 2.5m kms on them and kept on the road by the diesel engine gurus, EV trucks will never have the daily range required and short nights, seen trucks coming off night shift to be refuelled and straight onto the road


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,108 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    Driver breaks can (and in reality are) be whilst unloading, driver wants this to be the case so he can have a shorter working day


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,915 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    slave1 wrote: »
    Not reality bud, I worked for a part haulage company and the cabs are all diesel, plenty with 2.5m kms on them and kept on the road by the diesel engine gurus, EV trucks will never have the daily range required

    Rather than take your word for it, bud, I'd prefer if you refuted my maths :p

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭ pdpmur


    Those twin axle tipper trucks are notoriously fuel hungry.
    I remember a few years ago talking to a driver who was delighted with his brand new truck because the fuel efficiency had increased from 5mpg to 6mpg (in fairness, a 20% increase!)
    The problem with these type of trucks in Ireland is that many are driver-owned and make money only when they are on the go the whole day, with constantly varying routes. It will be a long time here before public charging can accommodate this type of vehicle.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,173 ✭✭✭ Widdensushi


    If a driver is near his maximum hours for the day and not near his destination he will stop at a charging point, even when he is fully charged he will not be able to move the vehicle or will mess up his taco hours


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,608 ✭✭✭ gctest50


    Swappable batteries would be a bit easier to do on a truck


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,108 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    unkel wrote: »
    Rather than take your word for it, bud, I'd prefer if you refuted my maths :p

    Maths are fine Unkel but reality is a truck can be back at base for 15minutes, during that 15minutes it is shunted and refuelled and back on the road, time costs money so turnaround is a critical factor and reality is there are way less cabins than trailers so cabins must be utilised 24/7 or closest to.
    This gives zero EV charging time so your math of starting off on full charge becomes void.
    Driver break is taking at unloading, during this time the driver muches on his grub and signs off delivery dockets (which can take a long time if there's a difference between orders/delivery/actual quantity delivered and checked) so no time for a separate charging stop back to base.

    I am not disagreeing with your math, I'm bringing practicality/real world into it, apart from Saturday nights (Sunday's off) there is no time to recharge in a busy place


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,516 ✭✭✭ Odelay


    I'll agree a measly 50kW ESB charger won't cut it

    I disagree there'll be a major issue with trucks blocking chargers. For one thing, very few chargers could fit a truck in anyway

    There's going to be big money in it for charging providers when electric trucks come along. Think about how much 300kWh of DC charging is going to cost, and there's no way hauliers will want to be sitting around for a hour waiting on a free charger, they'll demand better charging facilities that are dedicated to trucks only

    Whoever can get in on it early will sweep up the market and make a fortune

    Truck would easily fit if they parked across a few chargers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,871 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    Padre_Pio wrote: »
    Trucks have their own fuel stations, makes sense they would have dedicated charging.

    Higher voltage, higher current, industrial power connectors.
    Maybe even have split batteries and multiple plugs.
    If there was any additional user risk then it's included in the driver's training.


    In that case I suppose the winner of the EV trucks race won't be the best truck, but whover puts out the best charging network to support sales of their trucks



    Tesla will be a definite front runner based on history with the supercharger network


    Hopefully other manufacturers are taking note and will be bringing their own charging networks out as well


    As long as they're open access (like Ionity) then it should work out fairly well


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    slave1 wrote: »
    Not reality bud, I worked for a part haulage company and the cabs are all diesel, plenty with 2.5m kms on them and kept on the road by the diesel engine gurus, EV trucks will never have the daily range required and short nights, seen trucks coming off night shift to be refuelled and straight onto the road
    slave1 wrote: »
    Driver breaks can (and in reality are) be whilst unloading, driver wants this to be the case so he can have a shorter working day

    All the above is true but it doesnt apply to every haulage company.

    Like most things it wont be black or white. There will be grey where some customers will have enough dwell time to charge overnight and can then choose the electric option. Others will be sticking with fossil fuel. It'll be a choice.

    Considering the slow burn that is EV uptake, it will be even slower on the truck side as it will be even more dependent on charging infrastructure. Its not like a 32A charge point can just be stuck on a wall and away you go. They will need to fork out for significant grid connections along with increased truck purchase costs which will be an inhibitor to uptake.

    If we can convert cars and light commercial to EV in the next decade we will be doing very well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,150 ✭✭✭ Padre_Pio


    In that case I suppose the winner of the EV trucks race won't be the best truck, but whover puts out the best charging network to support sales of their trucks

    And best service.

    None of this Tesla "no garage" sh*te, you'd need trained mechanics ready to roll to any broken down truck anywhere.


  • Registered Users Posts: 442 ✭✭ mike_2009


    "Today we fill up our cars with petrol from pumps at filling stations, but for the first 25 years of British motoring such things didn't exist. Instead, you could only buy petrol in two-gallon cans from chemists, hardware shops and hotels, as well as from garages. Then petrol filling stations began to appear"
    Link

    And in Ireland's case:
    "The first kerb side petrol pump was introduced in 1920 but it was not until after the Second World War that rapid growth in car ownership led to considerable growth in demand for oil for transport"
    Link

    We've come a long way but for two decades I doubt you could fill up your tank hardly anywhere in Ireland.

    Like everything, change will come and a solution will be found........


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,406 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    mike_2009 wrote: »
    "Today we fill up our cars with petrol from pumps at filling stations, but for the first 25 years of British motoring such things didn't exist. Instead, you could only buy petrol in two-gallon cans from chemists, hardware shops and hotels, as well as from garages. Then petrol filling stations began to appear"
    Link

    And in Ireland's case:
    "The first kerb side petrol pump was introduced in 1920 but it was not until after the Second World War that rapid growth in car ownership led to considerable growth in demand for oil for transport"
    Link

    We've come a long way but for two decades I doubt you could fill up your tank hardly anywhere in Ireland.

    Like everything, change will come and a solution will be found........

    We have always failed to provide proper infrastructure and the ESB public charging Network is another good example of bad infrastructure and the usual no accountability.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,109 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    Mad_Lad: 1925

    "These petrol driven cars will never catch on, I've bought the new Mercedes that comes with a spare horse, that way whenever the chemist that's selling petroleum is closed, I can just hook my horse at the front and not have to worry. Nobody has time to be trying to find the chemist in a town"


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,989 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    liamog wrote: »
    Mad_Lad: 1925

    "These petrol driven cars will never catch on, I've bought the new Mercedes that comes with a spare horse, that way whenever the chemist that's selling petroleum is closed, I can just hook my horse at the front and not have to worry. Nobody has time to be trying to find the chemist in a town"


    This is , without doubt, the best post I have ever read on these boards.


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