Garage ripping off

BlakeS94

Hello everyone, I have a story for you all. Any advice or comments appreciated. My mothers car steamed under the bonnet recently while driving. It's a 250,000km ford focus. She brought it to a cheap garage ran by polish lads. They kept the car for a month and gave her a bill of €1350. Receipts include:
Full service

Oil,oil filter, air filter, cabin filter, fuel filter.

Fan belt, oil sump reseal, trailing arm bushing.

Front brake pads and fluid, rocker/valve cover gasket.

Timing belt with water pump, crankshaft seal, camshaft seal, EGR valve.

Engine bay cleaning from oil leaking.

Now, she has been back 3 times for car throwing smoke out the back, and non-starting issues. I reckon these lads are giving her the run around and half of that stuff didnt need to be done at all. They carried out the work without consent and I dont even think most of it was done. Going to inspect for new parts when I see her next. But I smell a rat. If an engine was leaking from both crank and cam shaft seals and the rocket cover gasket the car wouldn't be driveable for very long and it wouldn't be an acute sudden issue, I may be wrong

1123heavy

BlakeS94 wrote: »

Hello everyone, I have a story for you all. Any advice or comments appreciated. My mothers car steamed under the bonnet recently while driving. It's a 250,000km ford focus. She brought it to a cheap garage ran by polish lads. They kept the car for a month and gave her a bill of €1350. Receipts include:
Full service

Oil,oil filter, air filter, cabin filter, fuel filter.

Fan belt, oil sump reseal, trailing arm bushing.

Front brake pads and fluid, rocker/valve cover gasket.

Timing belt with water pump, crankshaft seal, camshaft seal, EGR valve.

Engine bay cleaning from oil leaking.

Now, she has been back 3 times for car throwing smoke out the back, and non-starting issues. I reckon these lads are giving her the run around and half of that stuff didnt need to be done at all. They carried out the work without consent and I dont even think most of it was done. Going to inspect for new parts when I see her next. But I smell a rat. If an engine was leaking from both crank and cam shaft seals and the rocket cover gasket the car wouldn't be driveable for very long and it wouldn't be an acute sudden issue, I may be wrong

Did she pay or was she simply sent the invoice? If I understand your post correctly she has driven it since so I presume paid them.

Did it have NCT? I fail to believe all those issues suddenly happened in 12 months.

The most shocking thing in my opinion is the fact they did the work without asking her, that is a total no no as you have indicated and ideally she'd have refused it but she was perhaps understandably intimidated. I have been to a few garages and never have they touched a thing without calling to make sure I was happy to go ahead - it also unfortunately says a lot about the garage that did the work.

My car knowledge is severely limited, but my experience is in dealing with mechanics tells me you're right to be suspicious about what has gone on here.

BlakeS94

1123heavy wrote: »

Did she pay or was she simply sent the invoice? If I understand your post correctly she has driven it since so I presume paid them.

Did it have NCT? I fail to believe all those issues suddenly happened in 12 months.

The most shocking thing in my opinion is the fact they did the work without asking her, that is a total no no as you have indicated and ideally she'd have refused it but she was perhaps understandably intimidated. I have been to a few garages and never have they touched a thing without calling to make sure I was happy to go ahead - it also unfortunately says a lot about the garage that did the work.

My car knowledge is severely limited, but my experience is in dealing with mechanics tells me you're right to be suspicious about what has gone on here.

I left that part out and it's quite important, it had passed the NCT a week BEFORE going to this garage. This is work she has paid for. I know that some garages do take advantage when a women who knows zero about cars bring the car in. Also this was around christmas time, for them!. My mother is quite a timid person and would not confront people on things like this. So if I check the car it it doesn't add up, I will then send it to my own trusted mechanic to verify, in that case what legal rights does she have if work wasnt even carried out? Yes they just kept the car and said it needs "a lot" to be safe. My mother just said make it safe to drive and then they billed her the €1350 a month later. Also they changed an alternator and said they have to wait for part to come from Poland? How ridiculous is that!?

Toyotafanboi

BlakeS94 wrote: »

I left that part out and it's quite important, it had passed the NCT a week BEFORE going to this garage.

The only thing on your list that the NCT would have checked is the trailing arm bush and their assesment of that is matter of opinion and to err on the side of ok.

The NCT isn't a substitute for regular maintenance or servicing.

They'd have no interest in filters, belts, gaskets, fluids, EGR's or even oil leaks unless they are absolutely hemorrhaging.

Did they give her a quote or estimate for works and did she agree to it prior to work commencing?

I find it hard to believe she dropped the keys off, faced absolute radio silence for a whole month, somwhow knew it was then ready and that was the first she knew of the €1350.

There's a missing piece of info there somewhere.

Sounds to me like the car was hanging and needed a bit of work put into it and if it's any consolation €1350 sounds reasonable for the work done.

If they did all that work for that price that is a very good price

BlakeS94

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

The only thing on your list that the NCT would have checked is the trailing arm bush and their assesment of that is matter of opinion and to err on the side of ok.

The NCT isn't a substitute for regular maintenance or servicing.

They'd have no interest in filters, belts, gaskets, fluids, EGR's or even oil leaks unless they are absolutely hemorrhaging.

Did they give her a quote or estimate for works and did she agree to it prior to work commencing?

I find it hard to believe she dropped the keys off, faced absolute radio silence for a whole month, somwhow knew it was then ready and that was the first she knew of the €1350.

There's a missing piece of info there somewhere.

Sounds to me like the car was hanging and needed a bit of work put into it and if it's any consolation €1350 sounds reasonable for the work done.

No they didn't give any indication to how much it would cost, and they didn't even say what was wrong, just vaguely stated "a lot of work needs to be done" and she told them to make the car safe because she heard "not safe" and panicked just wanted the car driveable. My concern is that if the car was leaking oil from 4 places it wouldn't make it off the drive, and you would notice oil everywhere under the car even if you knew nothing about cars. Also why investigate EGR if the car was brought in for overheating? She did not agree to any price estimate set, because there wasnt one. Hence why I think she has been taken for a spin

dobman88

BlakeS94 wrote: »

She brought it to a cheap garage

This is your first mistake anyway.

Taking it to a cheap.place you dont trust. Lesson learnt.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

its kind of rare for polish lads to rip someone off though - they are usually pretty honest .

Brianna Happy Ranch

Brianna Happy Ranch wrote: »

If they did all that work for that price that is a very good price

Not even the car won't start and fncks out smoke when it does.

IAMAMORON

A tall one if you ask me.

" a cheap garage run by Polish lads "

of course it is......

punisher5112

To be honest the car is not worth throwing mo ney at.

Get a bangeromic and move on.

That's what I would do.

mickdw

I dont see any reference to having fixed the overheating - she did get new belt and water pump - perhaps that cured it.
In my opinion it seems criminal to have put that money into that car if they were not sure of the engine and by the sounds of things, its still far from right.

BlakeS94

mickdw wrote: »

I dont see any reference to having fixed the overheating - she did get new belt and water pump - perhaps that cured it.
In my opinion it seems criminal to have put that money into that car if they were not sure of the engine and by the sounds of things, its still far from right.

No car is far from right, somehow an alternator or starter issue that they didnt notice while checking almost everything else apparently

Toyotafanboi

mickdw wrote: »

I dont see any reference to having fixed the overheating - she did get new belt and water pump - perhaps that cured it.
In my opinion it seems criminal to have put that money into that car if they were not sure of the engine and by the sounds of things, its still far from right.

We don't know it was overheating causing the smoking/ steaming though.

Could it have been the faulty EGR? Could it gave been from the oil leak?

BlakeS94

IAMAMORON wrote: »

A tall one if you ask me.

" a cheap garage run by Polish lads "

of course it is......

I have nothing against the fact they're polish, I just wanted to describe as best I could, I know some polish ran garages that have a good rep

Isambard

should have told them to keep it and put the 1350 into another car.

BlakeS94

Isambard wrote: »

should have told them to keep it and put the 1350 into another car.

Hindsight is a beautiful thing

1123heavy

Someone has correctly pointed out that for the sheer work done 1350 is actually cheap. However the thing is you say it still sends plumes of smoke out the back, was it doing this beforehand? I find it very hard to believe it passed the NCT if it was chucking out smoke so I presume this is a new issue post garage work.

I think you have two options, cut your losses and put it down as an expensive lesson. Otherwise if you really want to, try follow it up, though it's hard to see what you can actually do, it will be their word against hers and yours as to whether the car actually needed the work done to it.

I do not know what the law says regarding doing work without consent, you'd have to look that up. Taking this at face value it does seem like you'd be fighting a losing battle unfortunately, I imagine it's something you'd expect a garage to do, be angry at them if they didn't and refuse to pay/argue with them over it. If she has already paid for it though I do not see a way back, even via the law. Again you'd need official advice - I am not a lawyer.

When I have been the owner of a banger that needed heavy work, garages always told me up front it wasn't worth it. It is surprising if they didn't do that, especially Polish, my experience with them is they are very reasonable and tell you up front what the best thing to do is.

jmreire

Normally, there are two ocassions when you take your car to the workshop:-
(A) regular servicing.... and servicing is determined by mileage / time, with a specific list of replacement part's and a check list of other items.
(B) When you take it in because it has developed a problem, and in this case, you describe the problem, and they then check it out and after identifying the fault, revert to you with a description of the parts / work needed and the cost.
Its extremely rare to just hand over the car, with what amounts to a blank cheque , and the instructions to "Fix It".

ExMachina1000

Is this garage in Offaly by any chance?

Augeo

Augeo wrote: »

Not even the car won't start and fncks out smoke when it does.

I wasn't commenting on the condition of the car / issues it now has, I was referring to the list of jobs the poster said was done to the car.

Toyotafanboi

Brianna Happy Ranch wrote: »

I wasn't commenting on the condition of the car / issues it now has, I was referring to the list of jobs the poster said was done to the car.

Sure a diesel Focus with 250k is bound to be a bit smokey even at the best of times.

BlakeS94

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Is this garage in Offaly by any chance?

No it's in the south west

BlakeS94

UPDATE: The mechanic from this garage came to my mothers house for the non-start issue and black smoke from exhaust, said EGR is blocked and that's causing the non start along with the dirty smoke out the back, they just replaced the EGR valve how on earth could it be blocked when the car has done maybe 2 drives. Anyway he towed car away, said he'll contact her tomorrow, i advised her not to give them a penny

BlakeS94

BlakeS94 wrote: »

UPDATE: The mechanic from this garage came to my mothers house for the non-start issue and black smoke from exhaust, said EGR is blocked and that's causing the non start along with the dirty smoke out the back, they just replaced the EGR valve how on earth could it be blocked when the car has done maybe 2 drives. Anyway he towed car away, said he'll contact her tomorrow, i advised her not to give them a penny

You should deal with them directly instead of your mother.

Car99

Why does someone who knows nothing about cars pick a garage they are unfamiliar with to repair their car and and then say fix it until it's safe , blank cheque basically? The garage may or may not be overcharging but definitly with your mums choices she didnt help her . Why didnt you take the car to your trusted mechanic in the first place ? No point closing the gate now when the horse has bolted and taken €1300 with him leaving ****box a high mileage focus behind .
EDIT. Just saw your latest post regarding your health. ignore my questions regarding why you didnt use your own mechanic. Best of luck.

BlakeS94

Jonas Small Rug wrote: »

You should deal with them directly instead of your mother.

I'm considering that, but I've recently been diagnosed with a medical condition and literally don't have the brain power to deal with the stress of it

BlakeS94

Car99 wrote: »

Why does someone who knows nothing about cars pick a garage they are unfamiliar with to repair their car and and then say fix it until it's safe , blank cheque basically? The garage may or may not be overcharging but definitly with your mums choices she didnt help her . Why didnt you take the car to your trusted mechanic in the first place ? No point closing the gate now when the horse has bolted and taken €1300 with him leaving ****box a high mileage focus behind .

This was all done by the time I was told about it. Which was about an hour before my original post. She picked the garage because it was close to home primarily. And I'm not disputing the price of the work done. I'm questioning if some of it was done at all. If you brought a car to a garage and they replaced an EGR and alternator and the next few days after, it started for 10 seconds blew a load of crap out the exhaust and died would you be questioning the work done also?

BlakeS94

BlakeS94 wrote: »

UPDATE: The mechanic from this garage came to my mothers house for the non-start issue and black smoke from exhaust, said EGR is blocked and that's causing the non start along with the dirty smoke out the back, they just replaced the EGR valve how on earth could it be blocked when the car has done maybe 2 drives. Anyway he towed car away, said he'll contact her tomorrow, i advised her not to give them a penny

At least the guy has taken it back, maybe give him the benefit of the doubt and see how it is when he gives it back to your mum.

If it comes back in good working order I still think she got a very good deal price wise so wait and see. It's not worth stressing yourself out over.

BlakeS94

Car99 wrote: »

EDIT. Just saw your latest post regarding your health. ignore my questions regarding why you didnt use your own mechanic. Best of luck.

Thank you

BlakeS94

Brianna Happy Ranch wrote: »

At least the guy has taken it back, maybe give him the benefit of the doubt and see how it is when he gives it back to your mum.

If it comes back in good working order I still think she got a very good deal price wise so wait and see. It's not worth stressing yourself out over.

Yeah I'll do that, I dont think anyone needs added stress in this day and age. I'm just trying to look out for my mother as I'd imagine anyone else would

User1998

BlakeS94 wrote: »

UPDATE: The mechanic from this garage came to my mothers house for the non-start issue and black smoke from exhaust, said EGR is blocked and that's causing the non start along with the dirty smoke out the back, they just replaced the EGR valve how on earth could it be blocked when the car has done maybe 2 drives. Anyway he towed car away, said he'll contact her tomorrow, i advised her not to give them a penny

He seems like a nice guy coming out to your house to investigate. I don’t know any mechanics that would do that for me

BlakeS94

User1998 wrote: »

He seems like a nice guy coming out to your house to investigate. I don’t know any mechanics that would do that for me

Even after giving them €1350 and having issues relating to parts that they have replaced? He had to call out because the car wouldn't start

User1998

He didn’t have to do anything, its not necessarily his fault the car wouldn't start. From what I can see it was a nice gesture calling out to your home? I mean your mother did tell them to make the car safe, so I think replacing the breaks, timing belt, and a major service was reasonable enough. Do you even know when the car was last serviced or had any mechanical work carried out?

BlakeS94

User1998 wrote: »

He didn’t have to do anything, its not necessarily his fault the car wouldn't start. From what I can see it was a nice gesture calling out to your home? I mean your mother did tell them to make the car safe, so I think replacing the breaks, timing belt, and a major service was reasonable enough. Do you even know when the car was last serviced or had any mechanical work carried out?

We have different opinions on that matter it seems. They had said to her a lot needs to be done and that the car wasn't safe, she then said okay make it safe as she plans to hold onto it for a few more years. No I don't know the service history of the car

User1998

I’l hold my hands up and admit that I’ve been in a similar situation to you. My mother sent her car to a garage and told them to ‘do what needs to be done’, and she received a bill of €1,000. And yes I was frustrated like you are. But the thing is if you don’t tell mechanics what you specifically want done they have free reign on what they consider needs replacing and you end up spending big money. In both of our cases tho, a lot of work was carried out for the amount paid, so branding it as a rip off is a bit harsh. If you don’t know the service history of the car then you can’t really comment on what they considered as unsafe

From now on, you (or your mother) should be very specific in what you want or need done and agree a price beforehand

ExMachina1000

The egr valve may well be blocked again. But why is the question.
Over fuelling or timing possibly?
This guy might be in over his head. Parts changer not a mechanic.
The trade is full of them because it's not regulated.


Bring it to a mechanic next time. You will pay more but you will get the car fixed properly.

1123heavy

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

The egr valve may well be blocked again. But why is the question.
Over fuelling or timing possibly?
This guy might be in over his head. Parts changer not a mechanic.
The trade is full of them because it's not regulated.


Bring it to a mechanic next time. You will pay more but you will get the car fixed properly.

This exactly. I've been at my wits end in arguments with friends trying to highlight this, they've often accused me of being overcharged for something and they got it done for x amount. It's lost on them that they went to someone who is merely a parts fitter whereas I went to an actual mechanic, hence the price upmark.

Lots of parts fitters out there are chancing their arm too. They'll say yes to every job then they'll be on youtube trying to figure it out, sometimes the only thing they have over me or anyone else is the ramp and tools.

BlakeS94

User1998 wrote: »

I’l hold my hands up and admit that I’ve been in a similar situation to you. My mother sent her car to a garage and told them to ‘do what needs to be done’, and she received a bill of €1,000. And yes I was frustrated like you are. But the thing is if you don’t tell mechanics what you specifically want done they have free reign on what they consider needs replacing and you end up spending big money. In both of our cases tho, a lot of work was carried out for the amount paid, so branding it as a rip off is a bit harsh. If you don’t know the service history of the car then you can’t really comment on what they considered as unsafe

From now on, you (or your mother) should be very specific in what you want or need done and agree a price beforehand

What I think is a rip off is that I feel some of the work may not have been done but has been billed. Which is why I said I will inspect what I know how to inspect from the receipt to verify it has been done.

BlakeS94

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

The egr valve may well be blocked again. But why is the question.
Over fuelling or timing possibly?
This guy might be in over his head. Parts changer not a mechanic.
The trade is full of them because it's not regulated.


Bring it to a mechanic next time. You will pay more but you will get the car fixed properly.

I reckon that may be the case. As I've said it's been returned to them 3 or 4 times since they replaced all those parts I listed in the original post. If my mother had told me about her car overheating I would have had a look before anything else and would have made sure she brought it to my own mechanic who I've been with for years and trust. But sadly that is not the case. I have no problems dishing out coin for quality work done. My own yoke is in for head gasket and cylinder head skimming at the moment, more about that in a later post lol

i57dwun4yb1pt8

250 km focus , id say it probably needs more work to be honest .
1350 would have got her another car easily.

just dont bang any more money at it .




also hope you get better soon

pippip

Ring them yourself first thing in the morning and make it clear you want a QUOTE before anything is done.

XLR 8

BlakeS94 wrote: »

I have nothing against the fact they're polish, I just wanted to describe as best I could, I know some polish ran garages that have a good rep

Then why mention their nationality at all. Mechanic is descriptive enough. Your mother is driving an old Focus with a quarter of a million km on it. That's not a massive bill for the work done. I'm not trying to be funny but your mother probably ignored or missed all the little signs that the car had issues. Forget the NCT in this regard as its meaningless. Go and talk to the men who carried out the work personally. If as you say they are from Poland I guarantee you'll find a decent bunch of men who will work with you. Your mam would have been far better off getting another Focus for what she spent trying to repair it but that's for you to tell her. No mechanic other than a friend is going to turn away any work in the current climate and recommend you spend your money elsewhere.

McCrack

I think the OPs mind was made up the moment he created this thread... "garage ripping off"

BlakeS94

McCrack wrote: »

I think the OPs mind was made up the moment he created this thread... "garage ripping off"

I was just being descriptive. If they were English or French or german lads I'd do the same. I just came here to update that this guy took the car away two days ago for clogged EGR that they just replaced and radio silence since. I can understand people backing them up but I feel the benefit of the doubt has been given and they're taking advantage