Am i been unreasonable? Issue with friends

runningbuddy

Hi folks. I have been friends with a group of girls for a few years. I am particularly close to let's call her, Sarah. We all part of the same swimming club, etc. A few years ago, a girl called "Ann" joined. She took an instant dislike to me. She excluded me from any outings/nights out etc. and anytime we were together, she would be extremely rude and aggressive towards me. I spoke to her about it and she said she considers me "dull and boring". She is an extrovert and is very loud so I guess the complete opposite to me.

18 months ago, my mother and sister were killed. Obviously, I was in an awful state. Sarah and the rest of my friends were so good to me, practically and in every way. Not long after, Ann organised a night out and told the rest of the girls she was not including me as it would be too depressing - this was just after losing my mother and sister. Sarah and the group kept a bit of a distance from her after this. They were shocked that she could be so hurtful.

However, last week, I found out that Sarah got Ann a job in her husband's firm. Sarah told me that her and Ann have become close friends again. She said she totally understands that her and I do not get along I am upset by this. Obviously, I cannot dictate who my friend socialises with...am I been unreasonable here? thanks all

Zebrag

Not in a similar scenario but in terms of a friend not liking me, I get it. I'm like you, quiet. Some would also say boring but I'm quiet happy being the quiet one and not dramatic.
You're not being unreasonable but I can assure you Sarah is in a position where she wants both people as friends and doesn't want to upset the other. In saying that, you don't know if this Ann person has tried to sweet talk her way into getting this new job and quiet frankly, she sounds like the type to drop Sarah in a heartbeat if she didn't get her own way so in a way, I think Sarah might be trying to keep the peace but also her distance, as seen from when Ann discribed you as "depressing" over an extremely upsetting event.
If it was me, I would keep my distance from both. Not in a petty way but I would make it clear that Ann isn't a friend and mostly likley will never be so you and Sarah can set a boundary about this Ann person. No speaking badly and no gossip, the same as what you tell Sarah about yourself in case she's the type to give out information, or gossip in some ways.
If an occasion arises and Ann is there, you've every right to decline and meet up with the other girls in your own time. Ann will eventually lose those group as she sounds horrible.
She sounds exactly like a person who tried to wiggle her way into a friendship with me and I ended it pretty quickly myself and now, AFAIK the friends I keep in contact with from time to time have said they don't really chat to her as much. This will happen and people will stop being afraid of her "loud personality"
Ann isn't out going, she's rude. There's a difference.

You've every right to be upset but the advice I give to you now is, hold your head high. This Ann person doesn't deserve to be thought about. She isn't worthy of your friendship and certainly isn't worthy of your time spent thinking about what type of person she is

Sonic the Shaghog

Jesus Christ helping someone get a job after saying she wouldn't invite as it would be too depressing after your mam and sister died! WTF is going on with Sarah that you would want to associate with a horrible person like this!

I'd be broadening me social circle if you can at all, I understand it can be hard. But even your pal Sarah sounds a bit thick tbh.

I'm very sorry for your loss and I understand you being upset with Sarah especially post this incident.

I'm actually sick thinking someone would help someone that came out with that a job. Honestly it sounds bad but I hope it backfires completely and Ann causes huge issues at work

HildaOgdenx

I'm really sorry for your loss. That must be so difficult.

Honestly, I would just cool the friendship with your original friend. Similar to what pp said, it doesn't show her in a great light either.

Sometimes people like 'Ann' get found out in the end. It doesn't always happen, and it's of little use to the person wronged, but it might open other people's eyes. Eventually.

Most importantly, look after yourself.

Rubberchikken

There are 'anns' everywhere. I'm just sorry you met one but maybe it'll help to see that your friend Sarah isn't much of a friend either.

Widen your social circle when you can. You don't need these types of people in your life.

I'm really sorry about your mother and sister and I hope you're getting support to deal with the aftermath of that.
Take care

Hannibal_Smith

I'm so sorry for your loss runningbuddy. Youve had a tough time of it.

I've met a few Anns and everything is about them and one upmanship. She's crossed a line with you and being cool and distant with her is absolutely the way I'd go with it.

Did Sarah and the group go on the night out, knowing you had been deliberately left out?

The way I see it is, she didn't invite you on a night out and used a very poor reason for it. But I think that really is between you and Ann. You never got on. Ann hasnt done anything on Sarah, so there's no reason for them not to be friends. Its possible for them to maintain a friendship, while you keep Ann at arms length. She didn't invite you on a night out when you probably could have done with it. Your other friends were good to you and supportive. Be a bit hacked off, but don't make it a her or me situation.

Sonic the Shaghog

To be honest Ann's "I'm not inviting her as it would be too depressing" is the most important thing here. Of Ann had invited the others and not the OP and said nothing it would be one thing.

It's fine saying such and such can have their own friendship with them but if someone comes out with that and you still go to lengths like getting her a job then I'd be seriously questioning whether I'd want to be friends with Sarah, not just cause she's back friends with Ann after the horrible comment but what kind of person would WANT to be friendly with someone that would think in such a way

I'm honestly trying to think of someone I'm friends with said that about a friend of mine in another circle I'd have trouble looking at them or wanting to be around them. Makes me wonder just how well I know them

runningbuddy

Thanks folks. Am pissed off but absolutely nothing I can do about it. I am really fond of Sarah. We did speak and she appreciates that Ann has been horrible but she said she enjoys her company but does understand that she was awful to me. As she said it is now awkward because she is working with her husband. She said Sarah approached her as she was not working and she felt put on the spot but I am hurt as Sarah could have told her no.

Jequ0n

I guess this is primarily about you feeling let down by your friend whose loyalty you had expected.
Ultimately it is your decision, but I really can't see what she did wrong. Yes, she could have blocked Ann from getting the job, but chances are that they are friends now and that your friend just doesn't have the guts to tell you so. But that's really all.
You said they were a great support to you when you needed them, and Sarah in particular. I guess she wouldn't have done that if she didn't care about you. You cannot control who else she is friends with, it's entirely her own decision.

I have had moments in my life when people tried to make me chose sides - and I can tell you that I always chose the side that hadn't made me chose.

That said, I don't think it's unreasonable to be feeling resentment

leggo

First off OP, I’m sorry for what happened your family. That sounds awful and I can’t imagine what you were going through.

Secondly, I think it’s important that you get on top of your feelings here and why this is bothering you, else you end up pushing things and losing a friend unnecessarily.

Where Ann works really doesn’t affect your life in any way, so why is that bothering you? Why even give a crap about what this nasty yolk thinks about you or anyone else? If you’re bluntly honest with yourself it feels to me like she, more than anything, is someone that you see as a threat to your spot within your friend group. And why wouldn’t you...she’s deliberately tried to exclude you multiple times! She’s also likely made you feel a bit insecure by attacking you for being ‘depressing’ and ‘boring’ then trying to get the group to agree, and while you’re vulnerable that may have hit a nerve (even if deep down you know it’s waffle).

So it makes sense that this would jar you because Sarah enjoying her company may also feel like a tacit endorsement of what Ann thought of you. The idea of losing friends and what you have may seem even more horrifying given the insane amount of loss you’ve had to endure recently. All of this is very human.

Here’s the good news:
- Sarah still wants to be your friend. She’s stood up for you to Ann already, she has your back even if she does enjoy Ann’s company, it doesn’t mean anything.
- The same applies for the rest your friends and, trust me, even if they haven’t come out and officially banished her from the group...people don’t forget awful comments like what she said about you. They tend to think “well what’s she saying about me when I’m not here?” I’d say her card is marked with some of them.
- So it doesn’t look like you’re going to lose friends and does look like they prefer you to her.
- Lastly, the best news, because of how she’s openly been towards you, it wouldn’t be expected of you to associate with her at all. You have a fair, open grievance. Meaning you don’t need to see, speak to or deal with Ann at all again.

So I’d let that reassure you and let this go tbh. If you let it fester and force the issue, that’s when you could start being seen as ‘difficult’ and putting people in awkward situations and only then will your friendships be at risk. Let Ann dig herself into a hole as time goes on and just enjoy an Ann-free life. There’s zero need to let her live rent free in your head, she’s not a threat.

Airyfairy12

Im really sorry to read your mother & sister were killed. How awful for you to have to go through something so traumatic.
As for Ann & Sarah, ive had a friend of a friend not take to me and I tend to just leave them to it and not involve myself in plans with my friend when the other is going to be around. I avoid drama at all costs and im happy to miss the odd night out if it means not putting myself in an uncomfortable situation with someone who doesn't like me and I don't particularly like either. Life is too short.

Ann was nasty to you and your feelings of hurt & betrayal are very valid, your friends should stand up for you when Ann puts you down and they should refuse to exclude you but you cant stop them from being friends.
Keep in mind theyre seeing another side to Ann, she likely behaves very differently around them and her positive traits outshine the negative. In this situation, theyre willing to put her nasty behavior towards you to the back of their minds in order to hold onto the friendship with her. To me it sounds like she's bullying you by excluding you from the group and being horrible to you, your friends either dont see the full extent of her behavior or theyre ignoring it for the sake of their friendship.

Obviously I cant say what Ann is like but in my experience of people like this, theyre often charismatic, warm, friendly & fun when around some people & polar opposite when around people they don't like or feel threatened by, often times theyre manipulative bullies and cause drama where ever they go.
Your friends will get on the wrong side of her from time to time and see her true colours but in my experience, people like her manipulate situations and never receive a backlash.

Im also wondering who is telling you that Ann that is making plans with Sarah and your group of friends & specifically asking that you dont be involved. It just sounds like sh!t stirring to me, if I had a friend who made comments like that about another friend, the last thing id do is go and tell the friend about the mean things that were said about her. You need new friends imo, they all sound bitchy & two faced.

I where you, id avoid your group of friends when she's around, tell them you dont want to be in her company and in the mean time, try to expand your circle, once you do and make some new friends drop Sarah, Ann and that entire group.

osarusan

I guess it's natural to be upset that your friend is 'consorting with the enemy' but you are wondering how legitimate your grievance is.

Tbh, I can't think of any of my friends who isn't also friends with somebody i think is an idiot/pr!ck. In a way I suppose it surprises me that somebody I get along with and think is sensible and sound wants to be friends with them, but I guess they see something different in them. I suppose I must be the idiot/pr!ck in somebody's eyes too. Granted, in your case they have actively been a pr!ck directly to/about you, which is quite a bit different.

But rather than focus on her, focus on Sarah who, despite her relationship with Ann, seems to be a good friend to you, and that's not something you want to lose.

As Leggo said, even if Sarah and your other friends have some relationship with her, they also seem well aware of the situation between the two of you, so hopefully it's not like you'll be asked to tolerate her presence much.

It's if and when that happens I'd be starting to question Sarah and co, but not before that.

Caranica

OP sorry to hear about your losses, my heart truly goes out to you.

Coming from the job thing for a totally different angle, I've been out of work for almost a year and if I knew someone who could help me find a job I'd ask for their help. Even if doing so involved eating some humble pie. I would hope that they would help me.

So I wouldn't blame Sarah for helping Anne to find a job, if she is hanging out with her by choice then I'd have an issue with that, but not the job thing.

wiggle16

runningbuddy wrote: »

She said Sarah approached her as she was not working and she felt put on the spot but I am hurt as Sarah could have told her no.

She was never going to say "no" to her, though. She could have but she could also end the friendship and she hasn't done that either, because unfortunately for her, she likes Ann and considers Ann her friend, so she helped her out. The long and short of it is that she doesn't think that what Ann did/said was bad enough to warrant disconnecting from her.

I don't think you should outright end your friendship with Sarah but you should definitely step back quite a bit and lower your expectations of her.

I wouldn't put her in the position of having to choose between yous - I suspect Ann will do that in good time anyway, and it would likely have an effect on the rest of your circle of friends that you don't want.

Ann will eventually turn on her, people like this always do. Leave her to it.

LegacyUser

I’m so very sorry for your loss, OP.

On the issue of the friends, if an Ann came in to my group of friends and was speaking about one of them the way Ann was about you and being rude and aggressive, I wouldn’t be friends with them.

I wouldn’t want to be friends with someone who would treat my friend so badly, no matter how nice she was to me.

There are plenty of people I don’t like, but I would never be needlessly rude to them or nasty about them.

It doesn’t say much about Sarah that she wants to be friends with someone who is clearly a b*tch. As others have said, you’ll have to lower your expectations where Sarah is concerned.

runningbuddy

Thanks everyone.

I am horrified that Sarah would choose to be so close to Ann to be honest. I don't think my relationship will be the same with her now and with the rest of the group. There are some great girls on that group too

You are not being unreasonable, they are not being good friends. I've dropped many people I once considered good friends over the years. I am better off for it, as I'm only left with those who are true friends. Don't be afraid to drop dead wood.

woodchuck

I'm going to try look at this from another angle...

People like Ann often attach themselves to people who are genuinely nice, but are also weak and easily manipulated. Is it possible that Sarah falls into this category? Some people just can't deal with confrontation, want to be nice to everyone, believe in 2nd 3rd 4th chances, are naive etc. I think a lot of people have a touch of this when they're younger (myself included), but some people never grow out of it and just try to see the best in everyone. If Ann is being nice to Sarah, she might not have it in her heart to tell her fcuk off. Ann is probably well aware of this and using it to her advantage (e.g. the job situation).

I reckon this will backfire on Sarah at some point. She'll eventually learn the hard way that Ann will treat her the same way that she's seen her treat other people.

I completely understand why Sarah's actions are hurtful to you though. But I don't think it would be reasonable to try to control who your friends can be friends with. Friends make bad choices all the time - including who their other friends are. It's up to you though if this is something you can live with and if you think the friendship is worth salvaging.

IAMAMORON

Ann sounds painful, but there are plenty of them around.

Sarah giving her a job is not really any of your business, it is highly likely that she has been offered the job on merit. I would stay out of that one.

Ann is a textbook bully. She doesn't like you, it is possible she is intimidated by your position within your circle of friends, she is a blow in. Don't let her get to you.

Another thing, in future if you hear that you are being deliberately ostracised from parties or gatherings at the behest of Ann I would be turning up anyways. She will blow off just like she blew in.... your real friends will have your back anyway. Don't let her get away with that. If they are all your friends it only takes one of them to say that she invited you along. Don't exclude yourself.

Up Donegal

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Ann sounds painful, but there are plenty of them around.

Another thing, in future if you hear that you are being deliberately ostracised from parties or gatherings at the behest of Ann I would be turning up anyways. She will blow off just like she blew in.... your real friends will have your back anyway. Don't let her get away with that. If they are all your friends it only takes one of them to say that she invited you along. Don't exclude yourself.

Well said!

Ande1975

OP, my heart broke reading your news about your mum and sister. What a devastating loss.

Since we've been in lockdown for almost a year, have you managed to keep in touch with the other girls?
Like the other posters on here, Ann is like a cuckoo and will get found out.... eventually!
To be honest, I'd say Sarah is intimidated by her if she felt she had to help out Ann.
I cannot argue with any of the advice above but try, if you can broaden your social circle.
If there is any upside of Covid, is that its been a level setting field for everyone.
I hope once we are out the other side, we'll appreciate interactions more.

If it helps, one of my oldest friends (24 years) dropped me last summer for no reason and I'd lost my father 12 months before that and she knew how heart broken I was. But I must have been 'too depressing'. (And we are in our late 40s).

washiskin

Firstly, I'm sorry for what you're going through-I can't imagine the grief and trauma you have been plunged into.

As for this wan.....just bide your time. You're naturally peed off as she's trying to push a wedge between you and Sarah, who in turn is stuck in the middle. If you're fond of her, don't give her a reason to chose Ann. Keep as best a side out as you can and don't cut off your friend. Maybe when you feel up to it and some sort of social interaction is allowed again, you could organise a get together for your group of real friends.

I find people like Ann are empty vessels a lot of the time and burn out friendships before moving on. They weasel their way in, isolate the one they think is on to them, then decide they're bored and go.

runningbuddy

Ande1975 wrote: »

OP, my heart broke reading your news about your mum and sister. What a devastating loss.

Since we've been in lockdown for almost a year, have you managed to keep in touch with the other girls?
Like the other posters on here, Ann is like a cuckoo and will get found out.... eventually!
To be honest, I'd say Sarah is intimidated by her if she felt she had to help out Ann.
I cannot argue with any of the advice above but try, if you can broaden your social circle.
If there is any upside of Covid, is that its been a level setting field for everyone.
I hope once we are out the other side, we'll appreciate interactions more.

If it helps, one of my oldest friends (24 years) dropped me last summer for no reason and I'd lost my father 12 months before that and she knew how heart broken I was. But I must have been 'too depressing'. (And we are in our late 40s).

This is horrible. We are also in our late 40s :rolleyes: but some seriously childish, so called adults out there. You poor thing. Did your friend give you an explanation? x

florawest

runningbuddy wrote: »

This is horrible. We are also in our late 40s :rolleyes: but some seriously childish, so called adults out there. You poor thing. Did your friend give you an explanation? x

Yes, one of my long term friend's, over three decades ( I am in my 50's) just stopped messaging me or answering my texts a year next month, I was ( still am a bit) really upset as why would anyone be that mean no explanation given just no replies, I messaged a few times but at this stage I am just going to call it a day. Luckily I have other great friend's, I thought with the covid firstly that might be why as she tends to over worry etc.

Keep strong ladies and food for thought for us all to have a bit of decency with our friends.

dubstarr

woodchuck wrote: »

I'm going to try look at this from another angle...

People like Ann often attach themselves to people who are genuinely nice, but are also weak and easily manipulated. Is it possible that Sarah falls into this category? Some people just can't deal with confrontation, want to be nice to everyone, believe in 2nd 3rd 4th chances, are naive etc. I think a lot of people have a touch of this when they're younger (myself included), but some people never grow out of it and just try to see the best in everyone. If Ann is being nice to Sarah, she might not have it in her heart to tell her fcuk off. Ann is probably well aware of this and using it to her advantage (e.g. the job situation).

I reckon this will backfire on Sarah at some point. She'll eventually learn the hard way that Ann will treat her the same way that she's seen her treat other people.

I completely understand why Sarah's actions are hurtful to you though. But I don't think it would be reasonable to try to control who your friends can be friends with. Friends make bad choices all the time - including who their other friends are. It's up to you though if this is something you can live with and if you think the friendship is worth salvaging.

I think this is spot on.Look up being Wendied op,it seems to apply to you here.

The only thing when Ann [and she will do it] does the same to your friend.What will you do.

Im going to be honest,i would make new friends.Leave Ann and Sarah and go off and enjoy yourself.

Because when the hit hits the fan,you dont want to be anywhere near it.

ILoveYourVibes

runningbuddy wrote: »

Hi folks. I have been friends with a group of girls for a few years. I am particularly close to let's call her, Sarah. We all part of the same swimming club, etc. A few years ago, a girl called "Ann" joined. She took an instant dislike to me. She excluded me from any outings/nights out etc. and anytime we were together, she would be extremely rude and aggressive towards me. I spoke to her about it and she said she considers me "dull and boring". She is an extrovert and is very loud so I guess the complete opposite to me.

18 months ago, my mother and sister were killed. Obviously, I was in an awful state. Sarah and the rest of my friends were so good to me, practically and in every way. Not long after, Ann organised a night out and told the rest of the girls she was not including me as it would be too depressing - this was just after losing my mother and sister. Sarah and the group kept a bit of a distance from her after this. They were shocked that she could be so hurtful.

However, last week, I found out that Sarah got Ann a job in her husband's firm. Sarah told me that her and Ann have become close friends again. She said she totally understands that her and I do not get along I am upset by this. Obviously, I cannot dictate who my friend socialises with...am I been unreasonable here? thanks all

Im sorry for your loss.

You seem a little naive and well unreasonable. But i can also understand your feelings of course.

Sarah seems like a good person. She has been good to you and good to Ann.

Maybe she likes Ann. Thats ok ...

Compassion doesn't seem one of Ann's strengths ..but as you said she is outgoing ..and people can find that fun to be around.

Its not a good idea to get jealous in friendships. Although in your place I a might also feel the same.

Its up to you whether you think you want to stay around them or not.

But they were good to you ..you did say.

Thanks everyone.

I am horrified that Sarah would choose to be so close to Ann to be honest. I don't think my relationship will be the same with her now and with the rest of the group. There are some great girls on that group too

If this is the way you truly feel. Then i would advise you to be true to your genuine feelings. But don't be bitter.



Im not saying what Ann said was right or that she is a good person etc...but ..even if she is manipulative awful etc ...you can't be nasty to nasty people.

Just wish them all the best and be nice. Be positive toward them ...don't burn a bridge and cut them out etc

But just maybe widen up your social circle if you know what i mean. So they are not so important.

All the best op.

I am sorry for your loss.

You DO have the right to see your worth. But i wouldn't be toxic about it. And i wouldn't feel toxic or think toxic about it either its not healthy.

Widen your social circle with good people.

Wish them all well. Let life happen.

KaneToad

Many, many years ago I was in a similar situation. A new person came along to my small group of friends. He set about doing exactly as outlined in the OP. It was an eye opener for me. I moved on.

My situation was with local friends from childhood - so we were thrown together rather than sought eachother out. We were friends by default rather than design. All my friends now are friends through design.