Bmw rear wheel drive - dangerous?

lyons123

Hi,
I'm living in rathdrum wicklow, the main town has a few hills for the first few minutes of my drive but other than that it's a straight flat road.
I'm looking into buying bmw.

Are these dangerous driving in the rain or normal whether ect.

Thanks in advance

Eoinbmw

lyons123 wrote: »

Hi,
I'm living in rathdrum wicklow, the main town has a few hills for the first few minutes of my drive but other than that it's a straight flat road.
I'm looking into buying bmw.

Are these dangerous driving in the rain or normal whether ect.

Thanks in advance

Invest in winter tyres for the winter they are perfectly safe!

LollipopJimmy

I dont agree with winter tyres in Ireland usually but where you live would warrant them (they're only safer below about 6degrees) Driving for the conditions is far more important and the rwd aspect will only matter if you're hanging the arse out on bends. Smooth throttle and it wont bite.

emeldc

Switch off the esp on a wet roundabout and improve your driving skills. RWD is great fun 😀

maestroamado

They are great fun but its a different feel, i have one and i just use in the summer so it takes a while to get the hang of.
I am taking out to day for first time in months.
What are you looking to buy? i have two vintage and one has to go space, one is BMW...

Stallingrad

Winters are a good bet but it's an expensive route if you have runflats for the odd occasion we have snow.

All season tyres may be a better option, you can run them all year, unlike winter tyres. You also need them on all four corners, not just the driven wheels.

maddness

lyons123 wrote: »

Hi,
I'm living in rathdrum wicklow, the main town has a few hills for the first few minutes of my drive but other than that it's a straight flat road.
I'm looking into buying bmw.

Are these dangerous driving in the rain or normal whether ect.

Thanks in advance

All cars are dangerous driven incorrectly for the conditions.
Any car including a four wheel drive will be poor in ice or snow but winter tyres make all the difference.
I have a rear drive Bmw and live up a big hill beside the mountains but have fitted winter tyres and have no issues.
I’ve had front, four and rear wheel drive cars and they are all as bad as each other on summer tyres on slippy roads.
In saying all of this I’d still probably consider a four wheel drive salon/hatch if I was in your position.

freddieot

I found my BMW X5 (Xdrive - AWD but with RWD bias) was the only car I've had or driven in the last 20 years that could skid just going into my driveway on an icy day. My mate manged to skid his 318 (RWD) quite easily as well on a couple of occasions there in the ice. I'm not talking about a wild skid just slipping about 2-3 feet over when trying to turn into the gate because the vehicle could not keep a grip as it turned.

Before I get people blaming me for it, which I will :-

New Michelin or Dunlop tyres
Driving and turning slowly in admittedly a very icy estate.

Never happened with :-
Ford Mondeo
Volvo S40 (T4)
Suzuki Vitara (AWD)
Hyundai Santa Fe (AWD)
Kia Sorentos (AWD)
Volkwagen Passat
Skoda Octavia
Ford Transit Van

No doubt the extra thrill (sorry - special driving experience) might impress some people but after 45 years of actual safe driving experience I prefer to choose when to have those moments happen and not have them thrust upon me.

listermint

Having to have been pushed off a set of traffic lights in my old E46 318 in snow years ago in Dublin. I wouldnt buy one for a snowy country.

We aren't a snowy country though so for the few days a year we get bad snow. Simply don't drive. Plan your shopping ahead.


Buy the car and keep the Tyres in good order. If you want you can put snow socks on them to get out of short crappy situations.

ManOfMystery

Older BMWs with high powered engines may have caught the odd person out, but the modern equivalents have traction control and dynamic control and numerous other systems to counter loss of traction. Put on decent winter tyres and it's no more dangerous than any other car. My wife was set on a quattro Audi of some sort a few years back but we couldn't find any in the right spec at the time, ended up buying an F30 330d - she too had some concerns about RWD in less than ideal conditions, but has since relaxed a bit as she's never encountered any issue driving it yet.

As an ex-boy racer who's had plenty of high powered RWD cars, I've actually driven the 330d by the scruff of the neck down back roads and been surprised how much it takes for it to lose traction. With a smaller engine and more 'normal' driving, it's a non-issue.

lyons123

ManOfMystery wrote: »

Older BMWs with high powered engines may have caught the odd person out, but the modern equivalents have traction control and dynamic control and numerous other systems to counter loss of traction. Put on decent winter tyres and it's no more dangerous than any other car. My wife was set on a quattro Audi of some sort a few years back but we couldn't find any in the right spec at the time, ended up buying an F30 330d - she too had some concerns about RWD in less than ideal conditions, but has since relaxed a bit as she's never encountered any issue driving it yet.

As an ex-boy racer who's had plenty of high powered RWD cars, I've actually driven the 330d by the scruff of the neck down back roads and been surprised how much it takes for it to lose traction. With a smaller engine and more 'normal' driving, it's a non-issue.

Brilliant thats very helpful thank you, my partner will be delighted, he's always had bmws and never had issues but that's when he lived in Dublin so I was just worried!

zg3409

Any rear wheel drive car can suffer from oversteer, front wheel drive suffer from under steer. You should try learn how to recover by testing in say an empty car park.

Most new cars have electronic aids that try to help you too by reducing engine power to reduce wheel spin.

Typically oversteer is easier for the driver to recover from than under steer.

In terms of wet and straight you are typically OK unless very wet and very fast.
Biggest risk is roundabouts, often mid roundabout, but also at entry and exit. Trick is to slow down before roundabout and only apply power when out of roundabout and fully straight. Very wet makes issue far worse

Similar can happen if entering corners far too fast.

In case of rathdrum I would be more worried about ICE and snow and not making it up the unusually steep hill near the railway station. When grip is near zero rear wheel drive cars often struggle even at low speed on hills to start moving off. A cheap trick is to put concrete blocks/bags of sand/heavy junk in boot, and this will help put weight over the driven wheels and improve grip. You can take them out when the risk of ice is gone.

There are benefits to rear wheel drive too. Often front wheels have better grip on corners, the driving feel is better and steering wheel pulls less. More power can be put into rear wheels on the straight before they start to spin ( typically). As said just fill the boot when ICE /snow is likely. Like with any car don't drive with bald tyres, particularly in the wet, invest in new tyres early, particularly for rear tyres in powerful rear wheel drive cars.

I suggest a rally day in a rear wheel car to learn to recover from oversteer.

Buddy Bubs

I had loads of BMW over the years, weren't great in the snow I got embarrassed once or twice (stuck) but I wouldn't call them dangerous.

There are dangerous drivers in some of them, like any brand, but car is not dangerous if driven right. Had a bit of a skid in my Audi a few weeks ago, front wheel drive, but thats because I lost concentration and broke too late for a set of lights and went past junction, but luckily nothing happened.

CalamariFritti

If you're into driving and have a 'sporty' driving style you will notice a difference. Its better. For normal driving its next to meaningless except maybe in the snow.

LollipopJimmy

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

I dont agree with winter tyres in Ireland usually but where you live would warrant them (they're only safer below about 6degrees) ............

All-Weather tires......... non-winter tires that are marked with the three-peak mountain snowflake (3PMSF) are a great option for folk in Ireland IMO.

Leonard Hofstadter

I've driven my rear wheel drive BMW in the snow a few times, never had even the slightest bit of trouble. The traction control light will come on when pulling away but it always finds traction and can pull away without any issues. I've had the traction control intervene in front wheel drive cars in similar conditions, too.

I've never tried it up a steep hill so I can't make any promises on that front, but certainly on the flat or slight inclines it won't be any more difficult to get the car moving than it would be in a front wheel drive car.

If you're really worried about it, something with four wheel drive would be your best bet.

bazz26

I think some folks have been rewatching Reeling In The Years from Winter 2009/2010 when RTE filmed a few BMW's struggling in the big freeze.

reubenreuben

Had all weather tyres fitted once. Recommended when temp is less than 7C, really grippy.

But above 7C, slippery as delaney.

SEPT 23 1989

Beemers and transit vans caused most of the traffic problems in 2010

Hopeless in snow

Abbaesque

Hi, I’m sorry to say that I was going down a hill this morning into a t junction going at less than 20KPH with a stopping distance of 15ft, started gentle breaking and nothing happened- the in breaker and repeated, just slid down the hill onto a main road, Jammed on the horn when I knew what was happening but luckily no cars were on it at the time- we are in countryside. I know it’s only a few days a year, but I cannot work from home during snow- so I wouldn’t recommend if you have to drive it in snowy conditions( only 3 inches this morning). There is a 4wd bmw 5 series I think. An Audi Quattro would be safest bet..

eastie17

I had 2 520s, I live in a rural area and I wouldnt buy another one because of that.
You also cant let your thread depth on the rear tyres get as close to legal as you can in a front wheel drive imho, a few too many fishtails on wet roundabouts.

Stallingrad

Only car I ever lost control of was a BMW. Lift off oversteer on a wet surface. Never had a chance to catch it. This was pre traction control so things have improved immesurably, but any rear drive car requires a more deft touch in challengng conditions.

PsychoPete

Nothing like a rwd in the wet or snow to keep you on your toes

Eoinbmw

Abbaesque wrote: »

Hi, I’m sorry to say that I was going down a hill this morning into a t junction going at less than 20KPH with a stopping distance of 15ft, started gentle breaking and nothing happened- the in breaker and repeated, just slid down the hill onto a main road, Jammed on the horn when I knew what was happening but luckily no cars were on it at the time- we are in countryside. I know it’s only a few days a year, but I cannot work from home during snow- so I wouldn’t recommend if you have to drive it in snowy conditions( only 3 inches this morning). There is a 4wd bmw 5 series I think. An Audi Quattro would be safest bet..

That was going to happen you in any car in that particular situation 4wd would not have helped you if you where already locked up from braking!

Abbaesque

Eoinbmw wrote: »

That was going to happen you in any car in that particular situation 4wd would not have helped you if you where already locked up from braking!

What should I have done? I’d really like to know what’s the knack? It’s an automatic- if I were in a manual I would have obviously put it into first and tried to get a bit of control.. was there something I should be doing in this situation- I know they say don’t brake, but heading towards a t junction I didn’t know..

jimmycrackcorm

Stallingrad wrote: »

Only car I ever lost control of was a BMW. Lift off oversteer on a wet surface. Never had a chance to catch it. This was pre traction control so things have improved immesurably, but any rear drive car requires a more deft touch in challengng conditions.

I was the same as that with a BMW that I was loaned while my own was being repaired. I've no interest in trying to manage a car that likes to swing wide if the road is a little slippy.

maddness

Abbaesque wrote: »

What should I have done? I’d really like to know what’s the knack? It’s an automatic- if I were in a manual I would have obviously put it into first and tried to get a bit of control.. was there something I should be doing in this situation- I know they say don’t brake, but heading towards a t junction I didn’t know..

A heavy car down a hill on a very slippery road on summer tyres is always going to be a challenge to stop. Either go very very slowly and feather the brake pedal or get all weather/winter tyres.
I know I said it earlier in this thread but really the type of tyres on the car are far more important than anything else in very cold conditions.
Realistically though paying for them for a couple of bad days a year is also a bit silly, I only have them on my car as the came with it.

Fwox

I installed a clutch stop in my previous F30 320d, allowed for less clutch travel and was much easier to control and regulate how much power you wanted to release when moving off & shifting up. Made things a lot easier in trickier conditions to control the power going down to reduce wheel spin imo.

https://www.mlperformance.co.uk/products/bms-short-throw-clutch-stop

B-D-P--

The country is full of retired old men in the 520s facing the wrong way.....

Make sure ESP is on and its fine.
Dont act the maggot and neither will the car, its not designed to.

stefanovich

lyons123 wrote: »

Hi,
I'm living in rathdrum wicklow, the main town has a few hills for the first few minutes of my drive but other than that it's a straight flat road.
I'm looking into buying bmw.

Are these dangerous driving in the rain or normal whether ect.

Thanks in advance

Just make sure it is not petrol. The depleted ozone layer will fry you and the high MPG will bankrupt you. God help you if you need to drive up a hill with a light dusting of snow - unless you like being dizzy.

Jokes aside - you'll be fine.

Leonard Hofstadter

PsychoPete wrote: »

Nothing like a rwd in the wet or snow to keep you on your toes

Have you ever driven a RWD car in the wet? Doesn't sound like you have. Unless you have rubbish tyres on the car (which are dangerous on any car not just those with RWD), or decide to drive like a complete lunatic, then rear wheel drive cars are absolutely fine in the wet.

stefanovich

Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »

Have you ever driven a RWD car in the wet? Doesn't sound like you have. Unless you have rubbish tyres on the car (which are dangerous on any car not just those with RWD), or decide to drive like a complete lunatic, then rear wheel drive cars are absolutely fine in the wet.

Sounds like he's recollecting pub banter

ManOfMystery

Abbaesque wrote: »

What should I have done? I’d really like to know what’s the knack? It’s an automatic- if I were in a manual I would have obviously put it into first and tried to get a bit of control.. was there something I should be doing in this situation- I know they say don’t brake, but heading towards a t junction I didn’t know..

This is not a dig at you specifically, but the topic reminded me - it's something I've often noticed when conditions are bad (snow, ice, etc) - the amount of SUVs driving much faster down a road than other vehicles, as if all wheel drive affords them some kind of invincibility in atrocious weather conditions.

4WD will make zero difference to braking ability in slippy conditions. If anything, the added weight of most larger 4x4s will mean longer braking times and more damage if it does hit something. The illusion of invincibility only compounds this issue.

4WD will only assist with traction when the vehicle is moving under its own power, i.e. accelerating forward or reversing backward. Even then it's not a guarantee of perfect traction, and the dynamic behaviour of 4WD can differ hugely from application to application - e.g. 4WD family SUV vs 4WD performance car.

maddness

ManOfMystery wrote: »

This is not a dig at you specifically, but the topic reminded me - it's something I've often noticed when conditions are bad (snow, ice, etc) - the amount of SUVs driving much faster down a road than other vehicles, as if all wheel drive affords them some kind of invincibility in atrocious weather conditions.

4WD will make zero difference to braking ability in slippy conditions. If anything, the added weight of most larger 4x4s will mean longer braking times and more damage if it does hit something. The illusion of invincibility only compounds this issue.

4WD will only assist with traction when the vehicle is moving under its own power, i.e. accelerating forward or reversing backward. Even then it's not a guarantee of perfect traction, and the dynamic behaviour of 4WD can differ hugely from application to application - e.g. 4WD family SUV vs 4WD performance car.

This 100%

stefanovich

maddness wrote: »

This 100%

That's why I mentioned X5 drivers being the real danger, not the car.

Buddy Bubs

Guns don't kill people, rappers do.
Same story here.

ManOfMystery

Buddy Bubs wrote: »

Guns don't kill people, rappers do.
Same story here.

Rollin' with ma crew in a 330-D
Hit some ice, hit the gas, hit a tree
Got out and thanked ma boy I'm alive
He said son, stay away from rear wheel drive
YO

route66

ManOfMystery wrote: »

This is not a dig at you specifically, but the topic reminded me - it's something I've often noticed when conditions are bad (snow, ice, etc) - the amount of SUVs driving much faster down a road than other vehicles, as if all wheel drive affords them some kind of invincibility in atrocious weather conditions.

4WD will make zero difference to braking ability in slippy conditions. If anything, the added weight of most larger 4x4s will mean longer braking times and more damage if it does hit something. The illusion of invincibility only compounds this issue.

4WD will only assist with traction when the vehicle is moving under its own power, i.e. accelerating forward or reversing backward. Even then it's not a guarantee of perfect traction, and the dynamic behaviour of 4WD can differ hugely from application to application - e.g. 4WD family SUV vs 4WD performance car.

This isn't 100% true. Engine braking on a 4WD car will help to slow you down a lot better than on a 2WD car. Depends on the exact situation, but might just be enough to get you out of trouble without having to touch the brakes.

Abbaesque

stefanovich wrote: »

That's why I mentioned X5 drivers being the real danger, not the car.

Mine isn’t an x5. It’s a 520

Abbaesque

stefanovich wrote: »

That's why I mentioned X5 drivers being the real danger, not the car.

Mine isn’t an x5. It’s a 520

maddness

route66 wrote: »

This isn't 100% true. Engine braking on a 4WD car will help to slow you down a lot better than on a 2WD car. Depends on the exact situation, but might just be enough to get you out of trouble without having to touch the brakes.

How? The majority will be automatic.

ManOfMystery

route66 wrote: »

This isn't 100% true. Engine braking on a 4WD car will help to slow you down a lot better than on a 2WD car. Depends on the exact situation, but might just be enough to get you out of trouble without having to touch the brakes.

That's a fair point, unfortunately maybe also a bit of a moot one as I doubt many of these 4x4 drivers would know what engine braking was if it hit them in the face, much less being able to instinctively employ it when an obstacle suddenly appears with them speeding in slippy conditions.

maddness

maddness wrote: »

How? The majority will be automatic.

Even most old 4 speed automatics the driver can disengage from 4th.... And also 3rd

I'm thinking most modern autos offer some similar options to the driver.

maddness

Augeo wrote: »

Even most old 4 speed automatics the driver can disengage from 4th.... And also 3rd

I'm thinking most modern autos offer some similar options to the driver.

And how many drivers of these type of SUV’s would have the foggiest idea of this?

freddieot

My last few vehicles were auto but they all had either the stick manual mode and \ or the steering wheel paddles.

I'd agree there is an element out there that press 'snow mode' or whatever and think the car will do the rest.

Personally, every time there is heavy snow or bad ice, I use the gears for the side roads, roundabouts etc. basically unless I'm just going along on the motorway or in traffic like that. Last thing you want is the auto gearbox making all the decisions when you go round a bad bend for example in heavy snow or ice.

ednwireland

plenty of rear wheel drives in Bavaria