Adventures with radiators

Akrasia

Hi Everyone, Long story short, We had to replace our gas boiler a few weeks ago, this was installed by the qualified installer who went around the house bleeding the rads afterwards and said everything should be good to go

Noticed a day or two later that the sitting room radiator wasn't heating up properly so I thought it might need to be bled again so went to do that but there was no bleed valve, just 2 stoppers on each side of the radiator. Guess the plumber didn't bleed the system properly after all

Whatever, went into screwfix and got a bleed valve and fitted it, re-pressurised the system and bled the rad again and then checked all of the other radiators in the house

No air in any of them now, but the sitting-room radiator is stone cold now, I've opened both valves fully, but nothing is getting to it,

Anyone have any ideas?

Lumen

Is there a bleed valve on the back of the rad near the top?

Calahonda52

You need to post some pictures, what exactly is a bleed valve?

Akrasia

One of these yokes


There wasn't one of these on the radiator, only a stopper on both sides, so I fitted one to allow me to bleed the air from the radiator

CoBo55

Akrasia wrote: »

Hi Everyone, Long story short, We had to replace our gas boiler a few weeks ago, this was installed by the qualified installer who went around the house bleeding the rads afterwards and said everything should be good to go

Noticed a day or two later that the sitting room radiator wasn't heating up properly so I thought it might need to be bled again so went to do that but there was no bleed valve, just 2 stoppers on each side of the radiator. Guess the plumber didn't bleed the system properly after all

Whatever, went into screwfix and got a bleed valve and fitted it, re-pressurised the system and bled the rad again and then checked all of the other radiators in the house

No air in any of them now, but the sitting-room radiator is stone cold now, I've opened both valves fully, but nothing is getting to it,

Anyone have any ideas?

Is the body of the tap or the pipe coming to it getting hot? Try carefully opening the centre of the tap until water comes out, don't undo it too much just enough to let any air out. Is there enough pressure in the system?

Akrasia

Thanks, the pipe is cold from the wall. I'll try bleeding this, fingers crossed!

listermint

Akrasia wrote: »

One of these yokes


There wasn't one of these on the radiator, only a stopper on both sides, so I fitted one to allow me to bleed the air from the radiator

When you say stopper was there not just a cover over the bleed nut. ?

Also were the rads balanced the left side has to be opened a quarter turn and some more for each rad around the house away from the boiler. If the left valve is fully closed it doesn't matter how much bleeding you do.

CoBo55

listermint wrote: »

When you say stopper was there not just a cover over the bleed nut. ?

Also were the rads balanced the left side has to be opened a quarter turn and some more for each rad around the house away from the boiler. If the left valve is fully closed it doesn't matter how much bleeding you do.

Both valves open as per opening post, I'm sure the op knows the difference between a blank cap and a cover...

listermint

CoBo55 wrote: »

Both valves open as per opening post, I'm sure the op knows the difference between a blank cap and a cover...

But... If he removed the cap and put in a valve wouldn't the rad have pissed out all the air and water.


So why would you assume that ?

Also been a while since I seen a rad sold with no bleed Tap at all in it.

Akrasia

listermint wrote: »

When you say stopper was there not just a cover over the bleed nut. ?

Also were the rads balanced the left side has to be opened a quarter turn and some more for each rad around the house away from the boiler. If the left valve is fully closed it doesn't matter how much bleeding you do.

Thanks for responding, no there were two stoppers and no bleed valve on this one rad. It’s wierd I know but that part is fixed now

It probably started as a balancing problem but there are only 3 radiators turned on with a 24KW boiler with the pump on full power so there shouldn’t be any issue with heating them all up, and there’s no sign of any heat at all on the pipes leading to the radiator
The return pipe to the boiler also seems to be cold, I hope it’s not a blockage and it’s just an airlock or I’m doing something really stupid

listermint

Tbh I'd call the guy back asap.

Hes the best to check it over. Sounds very airlocky but could be a few things.

I'm sure you paid handomely for the installation.

CoBo55

Can you get to the pump and open the centre cap, it could be airlocked.

Akrasia

listermint wrote: »

But... If he removed the cap and put in a valve wouldn't the rad have pissed out all the air and water.


So why would you assume that ?

Also been a while since I seen a rad sold with no bleed Tap at all in it.

I closed the two valves on the bottom ends of the Rad, took out the stopper and quickly swapped it with the bleed valve, some water and air came out but I repressurised the system and bled the radiator again with the new bleed valve

Akrasia

listermint wrote: »

Tbh I'd call the guy back asap.

Hes the best to check it over. Sounds very airlocky but could be a few things.

I'm sure you paid handomely for the installation.

Yeah. Will call him tomorrow. Thanks for the help

Akrasia

CoBo55 wrote: »

Can you get to the pump and open the centre cap, it could be airlocked.

It’s a back, there’s a deaerate function which I think I can trigger but didn’t want to go messing with it

CoBo55

Akrasia wrote: »

It’s a back, there’s a deaerate function which I think I can trigger but didn’t want to go messing with it

The heating is back? Try the deaerate function, it's too cold to be without heating, you've nothing to lose at this stage. I like to do all central heating tricking before August as there's nothing as frustrating as getting problems like this and it's bloody baltic outside. Let us know how it goes for you.

Akrasia

CoBo55 wrote: »

The heating is back? Try the deaerate function, it's too cold to be without heating, you've nothing to lose at this stage. I like to do all central heating tricking before August as there's nothing as frustrating as getting problems like this and it's bloody baltic outside. Let us know how it goes for you.

Sorry the autocorrect changed Baxi to Back

I’ll call in the big guns tomorrow, or Pat as he calls himself on his business card

CoBo55

Akrasia wrote: »

Sorry the autocorrect changed Baxi to Back

I’ll call in the big guns tomorrow, or Pat as he calls himself on his business card

Good luck with Pat...

GreeBo

CoBo55 wrote: »

Can you get to the pump and open the centre cap, it could be airlocked.

If some of them are working then it cant be the pump?

OP if you close the working rads does the cold on heat up?

The LSVs on the other rads might be too open and so short circuiting the system

ElderWanderer

You could try turning on all the radiators and see if the problem child heats up then.

If the person who installed the radiator was dumb enough to do it without a bleed valve, they could also have been dumb enough to plumb parts of the system in series, so turning off the radiator in the hall (for example) also turns off the radiator in the sitting room.

If the installation really is that stupid and you care enough about being being able to turn each radiator on & off individually, you'll need to plumb it into parallel & re-balance the system. Plumbing it into parallel would be relatively straightforward, but re-balancing is supposed to be tricky (never tried it) and could require professional assistance. Ideally a professional who didn't install a radiator without a bleed valve, didn't install a central heating system in series, and didn't ignore/not see both of those issues when installing a new boiler...

Cerco

ElderWanderer wrote: »

You could try turning on all the radiators and see if the problem child heats up then.

If the person who installed the radiator was dumb enough to do it without a bleed valve, they could also have been dumb enough to plumb parts of the system in series, so turning off the radiator in the hall (for example) also turns off the radiator in the sitting room.

If the installation really is that stupid and you care enough about being being able to turn each radiator on & off individually, you'll need to plumb it into parallel & re-balance the system. Plumbing it into parallel would be relatively straightforward, but re-balancing is supposed to be tricky (never tried it) and could require professional assistance. Ideally a professional who didn't install a radiator without a bleed valve, didn't install a central heating system in series, and didn't ignore/not see both of those issues when installing a new boiler...

I think the person who installed the boiler should be asked to rectify the problem.
There is not enough information yet, imho, to start berating them without giving them the opportunity to resolve the issue.

listermint

Cerco wrote: »

I think the person who installed the boiler should be asked to rectify the problem.
There is not enough information yet, imho, to start berating them without giving them the opportunity to resolve the issue.

Tbf though... Leaving no bleed valves on rads ? That's a bit of a mad one no.

ElderWanderer

Cerco wrote: »

I think the person who installed the boiler should be asked to rectify the problem.
There is not enough information yet, imho, to start berating them without giving them the opportunity to resolve the issue.

According to the OP, the person who installed the boiler claimed to have gone around bleeding the radiators. One of the radiators didn't have a bleed valve, so either (a) they lied about bleeding the radiators, (b) they didn't notice that one radiator had no bleed valve or (c) they noticed and didn't bother mentioning it. None of those is the mark of a tradesman I personally would want back through the door of the house or would consider recommending to friends or family.

Cerco

Very simple to resolve if OP can get installer back. Ask him about bleeding the rad with no apparent bleed valve.
If he refuses to come back or cannot show how he bled all the rads then the above conclusions are obviously right.
Just think he should get the opportunity to explain himself.
I think this may happen anyway if I am understanding the Op's post#17 right.

listermint

Cerco wrote: »

Very simple to resolve if OP can get installer back. Ask him about bleeding the rad with no apparent bleed valve.
If he refuses to come back or cannot show how he bled all the rads then the above conclusions are obviously right.
Just think he should get the opportunity to explain himself.
I think this may happen anyway if I am understanding the Op's post#17 right.

He channeled the air out of that particular rad with mind control and wishful thinking ……??? :P

CoBo55

listermint wrote: »

He channeled the air out of that particular rad with mind control and wishful thinking ……??? :P

No, he probably just slackened off the cap until water came out around the threads which is what I would have done in the first place. I did it in my father's house because the bleed nipple looked very frail so I just slackened the large hexagon until water emerged, everything was fine, nobody died etc etc...

listermint

CoBo55 wrote: »

No, he probably just slackened off the cap until water came out around the threads which is what I would have done in the first place. I did it in my father's house because the bleed nipple looked very frail so I just slackened the large hexagon until water emerged, everything was fine, nobody died etc etc...

Aye , leaving the homeowner with no means to bleed the system.

Absolutely top drawer work . I'd love to hear his excuse.

It's the type of quality I'd like to leave behind me.

Actually maybe it's his calling card so he has to be called back to slacken it for bleeding. Gold. Repeated work.

CoBo55

listermint wrote: »

Aye , leaving the homeowner with no means to bleed the system.

Absolutely top drawer work . I'd love to hear his excuse.

It's the type of quality I'd like to leave behind me.

That's neither here or there and of absolutely no use to the op, at least I offered him a solution to get the air out of the radiator. Must be great to be the perfect tradesman if that's what you are.

punisher5112

The system sounds like it needs to be balanced.

You could have a go yourself.

Also sludge/rust build up can cause rads to only heat a little or not at all.

CoBo55

punisher5112 wrote: »

The system sounds like it needs to be balanced.

You could have a go yourself.

Also sludge/rust build up can cause rads to only heat a little or not at all.

Could be the whole problem.
I wonder did Pat call?

listermint

CoBo55 wrote: »

That's neither here or there and of absolutely no use to the op, at least I offered him a solution to get the air out of the radiator. Must be great to be the perfect tradesman if that's what you are.

I did offer him a solution. It was to call the guy he handed a load of money over back to finish the job properly.

He shouldn't have to fix it himself after handing over money

Or is that something you think he should do?