Merc E300 - Diesel Hybrid

Moanin

Evening all,

I'm toying with the idea of changing 2011 Audi A6 tdi to an E Class Merc E300 Hybrid (2015-2016 model).

Does anybody have any experience of them?

They they give much bother and if so are there technicians qualified in this country to maintain them?

Annual mileage of 50k kms mixed between 80% motorway 20% city driving

Thanks

Lantus

At 50k of mileage the comfort is your no.1 priority. Your going to save little or nothing in a hybrid diesel.

A6 is a great car.

Gumbo

Loads of Techs qualified considering they are supplied by Mercedes Ireland.

Casati

A friend has one and its a v nice car- a lot more powerful than A6 2.0 too. Very good economy in town driving, very low road tax. More complex engine but he hasn't had an issues - though its v low mileage 2015. They used to be popular to import as VRT was very low on them

ELM327

I used to do 50-60k kms per year, you'll save very little on a hybrid. Best to get an efficient diesel or a full EV.

Moanin

Lantus wrote: »

At 50k of mileage the comfort is your no.1 priority. Your going to save little or nothing in a hybrid diesel.

A6 is a great car.

Indeed the A6 is an excellent car for comfort and economy. I can't fault it. I just need a change and mileage is creeping up (currently at 325k kms).

As we are progressively heading the electric route, I would consider going Hybrid and I like the look of the newer type E class Mercs.

Moanin

Gumbo wrote: »

Loads of Techs qualified considering they are supplied by Mercedes Ireland.

Yes indeed I'm aware of that but how often do they need their skillset to be used on these as there are not many E300 Hybrids about. Of these, how many of these give trouble ?

Moanin

ELM327 wrote: »

I used to do 50-60k kms per year, you'll save very little on a hybrid. Best to get an efficient diesel or a full EV.

Thanks I don't think I'm ready for full EV yet so will probably just go for the diesel AMG line version 2015-2016

kirving

Lantus wrote: »

At 50k of mileage the comfort is your no.1 priority. Your going to save little or nothing in a hybrid diesel.

A6 is a great car.

ELM327 wrote: »

I used to do 50-60k kms per year, you'll save very little on a hybrid. Best to get an efficient diesel or a full EV.

I don't agree with either of these. The attraction of the E300 has little to do with saving money, and everything to do with proving a quiet pull away at the lights, smooth acceleration, bags of torque, and minimal tax for a minimal penalty - you lost only some of the rear wheel well (as the 12V battery has been relocated there) rather than much of the boot with a PHEV.

I had a 132 AMG Line Estate for 2.5 years, and despite some reliability issues, it was a fantastic car. My mileage breakdown was similar, 80/20 motorway/city and it was a perfect car for that. Quiet, big seats, plenty of room in the cabin for long drives. My weekly commute was 2hrs motorway door to door.

Sold it at 250k km recently, and not a single rattle from it by then.

The main issue I has was one common to the 2.2 OM651 Engine, a broken bolt in the inlet manifold took a lot of digging to find and replace. Listen out for an air rushing noise during prolonged acceleration. It might not throw a warning light.

Also had suspension airbag replaced (it was punctured by a broken clip as opposed to wearing out). Hard on tyres, particularly the inner shoulder and I'm told that's common to all E-Classes.

I has no issues with the Hybrid system at all. Make sure the gearbox has been serviced.

ELM327

The "issue" isn't that the hybrid won't work, it's that lugging the weight of the batteries around on presumably mostly motorways doesnt provide an efficiency gain, and because the car is heavier, a non hybrid diesel that is lighter would actually give better MPG

Casati

ELM327 wrote: »

The "issue" isn't that the hybrid won't work, it's that lugging the weight of the batteries around on presumably mostly motorways doesnt provide an efficiency gain, and because the car is heavier, a non hybrid diesel that is lighter would actually give better MPG

Similar to the likes of the Prius or even much heavier PHEV's like the 530e, these C300h and E300 hybrids are actually very economical on motorway - generally at least as economical as the non hybrid models. Extra weight in a car in my experience doesn't reduce fuel economy to any noticeable amount - e.g. if I have two or three passengers I generally get the same economy as driving by myself.

I guess the hybrid tech is still an advantage when breaking for trucks, or lads in E.V.'s slowing everybody down trying to overtake these trucks .

On some motorways like the M7 traffic is very light can you can often drive at the same speed for extended periods but on something like the M50 people often hit the brakes too (for no reason)

The E300 also uses the rare 204bhp 2.1 diesel - most E class of that vintage are E220 with just 170bhp, which although is fine isn't as lively as the hybrid

kirving

ELM327 wrote: »

The "issue" isn't that the hybrid won't work, it's that lugging the weight of the batteries around on presumably mostly motorways doesnt provide an efficiency gain, and because the car is heavier, a non hybrid diesel that is lighter would actually give better MPG

In the E300, the battery pack and motor weigh under 100kg, which is a small penalty around town for great benefit IMO. At motorway speeds, carrying an extra 100kg is negligible - the vast majority of consumption is due to air resistance as opposed to weight.

Having owned one for years, it works in exactly the way it was intended. When you push a car, it's hard to overcome the initial inertia, but then gets much easier as you get going. Driving a car around town is inefficient for this reason, and also that you're far from the most efficient point for a lot of the time. This system goes a long way to improving the ICE efficiency in town, without the penalty of weight that would be needed to eliminate the ICE in town.

Around town the mild hybrid system is predominantly used to get the car up to speed, minimising clutch losses, and only engages the engine at higher RPM where it is more efficient. It also cuts the engine and drops to 0RPM pretty much any time you take your foot off the throttle to minimise losses within the engine. The AC compressor is electric too, so the CC is not reliant on the ICE.

For the sake of 100kg, I cannot see a non-hybrid being more efficient in town driving - but as I said earlier, outright efficiency was never the intention of this car.

My 330e on the other hand, I pay a big penalty for it's battery if I don't charge it. 300kg around town is defiantly noticeable, the fuel tank is tiny, as is the boot. I sold the E300 to get a 330e knowing all this - but if I didn't let the Merc go when I did, it would have been an impossible sell due to the milage. I would have gone Merc again, but I have a buyer lined up for the 330e whenever I sell.

ELM327

kirving wrote: »

In the E300, the battery pack and motor weigh under 100kg, which is a small penalty around town for great benefit IMO. At motorway speeds, carrying an extra 100kg is negligible - the vast majority of consumption is due to air resistance as opposed to weight.

Having owned one for years, it works in exactly the way it was intended. When you push a car, it's hard to overcome the initial inertia, but then gets much easier as you get going. Driving a car around town is inefficient for this reason, and also that you're far from the most efficient point for a lot of the time. This system goes a long way to improving the ICE efficiency in town, without the penalty of weight that would be needed to eliminate the ICE in town.

Around town the mild hybrid system is predominantly used to get the car up to speed, minimising clutch losses, and only engages the engine at higher RPM where it is more efficient. It also cuts the engine and drops to 0RPM pretty much any time you take your foot off the throttle to minimise losses within the engine. The AC compressor is electric too, so the CC is not reliant on the ICE.

For the sake of 100kg, I cannot see a non-hybrid being more efficient in town driving - but as I said earlier, outright efficiency was never the intention of this car.

My 330e on the other hand, I pay a big penalty for it's battery if I don't charge it. 300kg around town is defiantly noticeable, the fuel tank is tiny, as is the boot. I sold the E300 to get a 330e knowing all this - but if I didn't let the Merc go when I did, it would have been an impossible sell due to the milage. I would have gone Merc again, but I have a buyer lined up for the 330e whenever I sell.

I didnt know the battery was so light (relatively).
I suppose - since this is not really tested well in WLTP/NEDC - all we can go on is anecdotal knowledge and it looks from this thread at least that it seems at least not the issue I expected.


We have a prius hybrid and it struggles to get 45mpg when driven on the motorway at 120 real world speed for longer trips, whereas getting 65+ mpg around town and rural driving at 80km/h is realistic. I presumed the merc would be similar.

mikelike wrote: »

What EV would you recommend that is similar to a 15-16 E Class that is €20,000?

We will include fuel and maintenance saving's so, €35,000 budget

I'd suggest some of these
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/tesla-model-3-sr-zero-roi-import-charges/27172436?campaign=3
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/tesla-model-s-model-model-70d-5dr/27064311


Or the other Tesla I posted in the bargains thread earlier. All around 35k

kirving

ELM327 wrote: »

I didnt know the battery was so light (relatively).
I suppose - since this is not really tested well in WLTP/NEDC - all we can go on is anecdotal knowledge and it looks from this thread at least that it seems at least not the issue I expected.

We have a prius hybrid and it struggles to get 45mpg when driven on the motorway at 120 real world speed for longer trips, whereas getting 65+ mpg around town and rural driving at 80km/h is realistic. I presumed the merc would be similar.

Prius has a few issues on the motorway front. CVT, small Atkinson Cycle I don't think is the best for motorway as it's pushed too hard, but most of all this Merc is a diesel which is often forgotten. It's otherwise a totally standard diesel.

As you say, PHEV Petrol (and in some cases diesel) can in many cases actually be worse than the equivalent ICE due to the weight penalty and milage profile.

I actually fall into this category at the moment, and have seen a decent increase in my fuel bills with the 330e, but I got from Dublin to Galway (Tuam) yesterday morning (essential worker) for 6.0L/100km and 0% starting charge. Normally about 7.2l/100km to be honest though.

Best I used to hit in the Merc was 4.9, with an average of 5.7 or so if I remember correctly.