Hr long classes & timetables

Rexell1

Hi

Just wondering if I can pick someones brain on how 1hr timetables have been scheduled?

Is anyone in a school with a fortnightly timetable or even with a hybrid timetable with Mon-Thurs 1hr classes & Friday 40mins?

How is it working for you guys? We are thinking about changing in our school but pinch points re PE hours etc are popping up

am_zarathustra

We do 1 hour every day except Wednesday, 6 40 mins classes instead! Works very well, the 40 minute classes are good for exam years etc

Rexell1

That sounds like a good combination. Does it work out at 21hr40 for teachers & full compliment for students? My brain cannot compute any more permutations after long staff meeting earlier

Smacruairi

What most schools slyly do now is 22 58min classes rather than an hour. To give you 21hrs20min of your timetable.

am_zarathustra

I actually know very few schools with the 58 minute nonsense but maybe I'm lucky. Most hit close to 21.20, some are a little off. By the subjects I teach I'm usually a little over, someone else might be a bit under but it's nothing drastic and no one minds really.

I'm not sure I'd work for someone who brought in 58 minute classes, that's miserly

joebloggs32

At the very suggestion of 58 minute classes dig your heels in.
The allocation of 2 classes at 58 minutes per week will leave you short of the magic 200 hour mark for subjects in junior cycle. All those 2 minutes add up, so flag it straight away.

TheValeyard

We had a long thread on this not long ago. If I can find the link I'll post it here. Could be of some use to you.

Mardy Bum

am_zarathustra wrote: »

I actually know very few schools with the 58 minute nonsense but maybe I'm lucky. Most hit close to 21.20, some are a little off. By the subjects I teach I'm usually a little over, someone else might be a bit under but it's nothing drastic and no one minds really.

I'm not sure I'd work for someone who brought in 58 minute classes, that's miserly

58 is pretty common now. It is recommended by management bodies. It is impossible to timetable hour classes otherwise and give a teacher their 40 minutes planning time. It is also far easier to plan than 40 minute classes.

am_zarathustra

Mardy Bum wrote: »

58 is pretty common now. It is recommended by management bodies. It is impossible to timetable hour classes otherwise and give a teacher their 40 minutes planning time. It is also far easier to plan than 40 minute classes.

Most schools have a half day so surely making that day a set of 6 40 minutes gives the flexibility to hit uneven numbers. Lots of our staff might be 21.10 etc, we have ten minutes tutor times 4 mornings too. 58 minutes just seems awkward for awkward sake of to ensure you are absolutely milking your staff. I know one etb went that way but that etb is notorious for being a bit mental anyway

Treppen

am_zarathustra wrote: »

Most schools have a half day so surely making that day a set of 6 40 minutes gives the flexibility to hit uneven numbers. Lots of our staff might be 21.10 etc, we have ten minutes tutor times 4 mornings too. 58 minutes just seems awkward for awkward sake of to ensure you are absolutely milking your staff. I know one etb went that way but that etb is notorious for being a bit mental anyway

Btw you might be told your ten minutes tutor time has to go because it has to be scheduled as a full class (for well-being or whatever).

am_zarathustra

The ten minutes tutor has been on our school years now, never a suggestion to remove it. First class is 50 minutes instead of an hour. We don't do it on our half day to allow the 6 40 minute classes. It works very well to be honest, kids and staff like it, never a single complaint. I haven't actually heard it discussed even as an issue, most teachers love it once they get used to it. Also a nod of respect to the fact that being a tutor is work, 40 minutes (4x10) is the least a school should offer

Smacruairi

am_zarathustra wrote: »

The ten minutes tutor has been on our school years now, never a suggestion to remove it. First class is 50 minutes instead of an hour. We don't do it on our half day to allow the 6 40 minute classes. It works very well to be honest, kids and staff like it, never a single complaint. I haven't actually heard it discussed even as an issue, most teachers love it once they get used to it. Also a nod of respect to the fact that being a tutor is work, 40 minutes (4x10) is the least a school should offer

The issue is that the dept won't recognise it as teaching time if it's 4x10mins.

r93kaey5p2izun

My former school had 5×8 mins tutor time counted as a period on teacher timetables no problem. We had a WSE and MLL and around 12 other inspections and never once was it raised as an issue. So long as the students had 28 hours on top of this, which they did, they didn't care.

am_zarathustra

Same here, we've had a rake of inspections and it's never come up. Also wellbeing is very vague, for JC it could easily fall under this catagory. A lot of our most vunerabke kids have very strong relationships with their tutors so it helps get them in and settled to see someone they know cares about them. If a principal wants to be difficult they could use it as an excuse, but that's all it would be, an excuse to push staff harder.

deiseindublin

It is definitely being brought up recently, can't cut into T&L time supposedly.

r93kaey5p2izun

Well there's few inspections very recently, but I know it wasn't brought up in that school in late 2019 anyway. Yes, if the students didn't have 28 hours in addition it was an issue, but it being part of teacher timetables was not seen as an issue.

deiseindublin

It was brought up as not being either Teaching or Learning, not that teachers couldn't be paid or make up their full time hours. It had to be labelled as part of wellbeing or guidance etc. It wouldn't surprise me though if it's not consistent, some inspectors pull on it, obviously others don't.

Smacruairi

Yeah it can be used outside of the 28hrs, the des doesn't care about that. Likewise if your principal wants to allocate you 2 hours of window opening instead of class that's fine as you're just given teacher hours.

The issue is a school trying to use 10 mins a day and count it towards teaching time, and well-being time. That isn't allowed.

Mardy Bum

Smacruairi wrote: »

Yeah it can be used outside of the 28hrs, the des doesn't care about that. Likewise if your principal wants to allocate you 2 hours of window opening instead of class that's fine as you're just given teacher hours.

The issue is a school trying to use 10 mins a day and count it towards teaching time, and well-being time. That isn't allowed.

I am not sure where you got this information from but it isn't accurate. Tutor time should have some educational value whether it is academic or wellbeing related and it is fine to have it as part of teaching time (21.20/28). A curriculum should be in place for the time. I have not heard of any school being pulled in this.

Random sample

‘Meaningful learning in well-being is unlikely to be achieved when tutor time is spread over 5 days, such as 8 minutes a day and in such incidents would not be included in the 400 hours of well-being’ according to jct.

It does count towards the 28 hours though.

We are one of the schools that have switched to 58 minute classes. I find it soul destroying telling kids what time class starts and finishes.

I find it a lot easier to manage my time now that we are online though, and I’m glad to be preparing 6 classes a day max instead of 9.

Treppen

am_zarathustra wrote: »

The ten minutes tutor has been on our school years now, never a suggestion to remove it. First class is 50 minutes instead of an hour. We don't do it on our half day to allow the 6 40 minute classes. It works very well to be honest, kids and staff like it, never a single complaint. I haven't actually heard it discussed even as an issue, most teachers love it once they get used to it. Also a nod of respect to the fact that being a tutor is work, 40 minutes (4x10) is the least a school should offer

We were the same but after an inspection we were told it had to go. Something about it not being a recognised subject. Simultaneously though wellbeing came in so tutor became 40mins. Totally agree, touching base in morning you got to know them far more, now we have to have wellbeing and talk about our feelings and how to be good.

Smacruairi

Mardy Bum wrote: »

I have not heard of any school being pulled in this.

I've heard of several. I agree with you, it makes no sense that they want wellbeing but only on their terms but sure that's the DES.

am_zarathustra

Treppen wrote: »

We were the same but after an inspection we were told it had to go. Something about it not being a recognised subject. Simultaneously though wellbeing came in so tutor became 40mins. Totally agree, touching base in morning you got to know them far more, now we have to have wellbeing and talk about our feelings and how to be good.

In fairness, as I like to point out to the panicking teachers when the inspectors turn up, they have no power. They can say what they want, the school can reply and say it's the best use of their time and everyone, including parents, agree. I have to say, in the context of our school, we catch a hell of a lot of problems in the morning based on how kids looks or their behaviour. Very often we can preempt issues or intervene before an issue occurs. Behaviour would disimprove in our context and I'm very sure our staff would just continue to do what they've always done. The inspectorate live in magic land generally.

The parents in my school also couldn't care less about the inspectorate, in fairness, they isn't true everywhere

r93kaey5p2izun

I would absolutely have to agree that my experience in a DEIS school was that tutor time every morning, before classes began, was of huge importance in spotting issues and pre-empting problems before they escalated in the classroom.

Moody_mona

Luca Yummy Squad wrote: »

I would absolutely have to agree that my experience in a DEIS school was that tutor time every morning, before classes began, was of huge importance in spotting issues and pre-empting problems before they escalated in the classroom.

Even now in the remote classroom, we have kept our tutor time (we have it in the middle of the day not first thing) and it is the nicest time of my day. Great engagement, chats, quick games and quizzes, I hope (and I think they do) that students find these few social minutes as good for their heads as I do.

am_zarathustra

Moody_mona wrote: »

Even now in the remote classroom, we have kept our tutor time (we have it in the middle of the day not first thing) and it is the nicest time of my day. Great engagement, chats, quick games and quizzes, I hope (and I think they do) that students find these few social minutes as good for their heads as I do.

It's funny how excited they are to just have a chat. I gave a younger class no homework last Friday, they'd been doing well but had mentioned a couple of times that week that managing their time was hard. I asked them all to take a pic of something nice they did instead of maths, varied answers but some of the pictures were just lovely.

How do you find tutor in the middle of the day? Would be good I'd imagine for the kids that are always late, how do ye find it?

Moody_mona

am_zarathustra wrote: »

It's funny how excited they are to just have a chat. I gave a younger class no homework last Friday, they'd been doing well but had mentioned a couple of times that week that managing their time was hard. I asked them all to take a pic of something nice they did instead of maths, varied answers but some of the pictures were just lovely.

How do you find tutor in the middle of the day? Would be good I'd imagine for the kids that are always late, how do ye find it?

So we always had morning assembly, whole year group would gather to take the morning roll, plus tutor time after lunch for a second roll call (obviously all class attendance recorded online too, but this was out system).

This year we introduced staggered morning break and changed the tutor time to here. I think it works very well. Like you said some students struggle with punctuality and if they're going to be in for the day they're here by break. I feel like it's more of a catch up; better than first thing when students can still be asleep. I think that first thing in the morning the focus is on attendance and marking you present for the day; meeting at 11, even though you take attendance, it doesn't feel like you're there to mark them late.

am_zarathustra

Moody_mona wrote: »

So we always had morning assembly, whole year group would gather to take the morning roll, plus tutor time after lunch for a second roll call (obviously all class attendance recorded online too, but this was out system).

This year we introduced staggered morning break and changed the tutor time to here. I think it works very well. Like you said some students struggle with punctuality and if they're going to be in for the day they're here by break. I feel like it's more of a catch up; better than first thing when students can still be asleep. I think that first thing in the morning the focus is on attendance and marking you present for the day; meeting at 11, even though you take attendance, it doesn't feel like you're there to mark them late.

Interesting idea, worth thinking about actually logistically. Pros and cons to both but I can see what your saying about the morning being more so about attendence