Chargeback advice

AndyOHart

Hey,
So I previously brought this issue up in the Couriers section, and is still an ongoing issue currently but just wanted to get some advice here too.

December 15 - Bought a graphics card from a German website (computeruniverse), its a 3080 and that was on of the only places I have seen that was getting them in, so even with the terrible reviews I chanced it.

They shipped it, said it would be here before Christmas. I notice coming up to Christmas that DHL tracking was showing it as in the UK. Weird I thought, but maybe they route it through there?
Few days pass and I see its marked as delivered and signed for by 'James'. This gets me panicking a bit.
I ring DHL who say that it has been delivered and they can't give me any information as the address/name with the tracking number didn't match mine. I ring the German company who confirmed my name and address which was sent, and said they will investigate it.

Days go by, I spend over 100 euro in phone credit calling DHL and the German company.
German company keep telling me to wait until investigation is complete, to email their tracking department, they willl email me next week etc etc. In one email thread they haven't replied to me since December 23rd, in another they haven't replied since January 12th.
DHL told me that An Post delivered it on the 18th, then in another email said An Post are refusing packages from UK (which An Post denied) and in another email said that I need to contact my seller to open an investigation.

I try DHL again, and their online computer system asks 'enter your tracking number, if your tracking number has letters and numbers, enter just the numbers', which I did. Then the computer says 'we need to confirm that this is your postcode, is your post code ******'. The postcode mentioned was for a ship in the UK. I contacted them who said they didn't have the package to the best of their knowledge, but will ring me if they find it. That was before Christmas.
Out of the blue near the start of January they ring me and say that they have my package. Great I thought, should be easy to sort out now. I ring DHL and the German company again and they give me the same info 'wait for an email next week'.

I received nothing from them, the German crowd even started hanging up their phone on my when I called too much. Being very pissed off and knowing my
€1000+ graphics card was just sitting there, I organised UPS to collect the package to bring it to me. I was so sick and tired of calling people, I spent over 200+ at this stage on phone credit to call DHL, Germany, Britain etc.
Now my package has been stuck for nearly a month at Stansted because UPS are overwhelmed, and I will probably have to pay 200+ in customs. It's a **** situation, but I didn't see a real alternative since nobody was getting back to me.

So my question is, what can be done? Is there anything I can do here? I don't expect to get all my money back, or want to. I want to pay for the product, but I also would like to be compensated from the German company, would ideally like them to pay for my invoice, refund shipping and give me some form of compensation for all the phone calls and hassle, along with not replying or getting in touch with me about anything.

I know I probably messed up by getting UPS involved, but I just really wanted to have my item and be done with it all.
Any advice would be great!
Thanks

seagull

Your mistake was getting involved with DHL. In a situation like this, you get onto the complany you bought the item from, and tell them it's not been received. You don't get involved with the delivery company.

L1011

You have basically accepted delivery of the item by getting UPS involved so arguing non-delivery with your bank is very unlikely to succeed. This also applies to the customs; and the phone calls etc are unclaimable - it was the retailers responsibility to deal with DHL.

Not much use to say it now, but you should have left it for the German company to sort out and then logged for a chargeback in mid-January.

gogo

Agreed, the minute you called UPS to pick it up, you’ve lost any foot hold you had. You would have had more of a chance with straight forward non delivery and then ask for PayPal or your bank to intervene. By arranging matters yourself, you’ve confirmed you had access to the item and choose the shipping company yourself, ergo the loss after that fact was on your terms. Essentially you interfered with a delayed delivery.. issues with ups have nothing got to do with the German company, who will say they were going to sort it.. regardless if they were or weren’t.
I know why you did it, to be fair, it’s a killer but nothing you can do about it.
You could have maybe refused delivery, and avoided customs by returning to sender.. but again as you organized UPS .. are you technically the sender now?

whiterebel

UPS have a daily service from the UK. The problem now, I reckon, is that they don't have any paperwork to ship it. The company in the UK wouldn't have given them anything, so its now stuck waiting for paperwork. UPS probably don't even know about the German company.

AndyOHart

Yeah your all correct, I know myself I sort of messed myself over by doing it. Just thought it would be more straight forward to get my item.
The main reason I did it is because the German company have still not gotten back to me. So to me it seems like they are willing to just ignore it not arriving.

AndyOHart

whiterebel wrote: »

UPS have a daily service from the UK. The problem now, I reckon, is that they don't have any paperwork to ship it. The company in the UK wouldn't have given them anything, so its now stuck waiting for paperwork. UPS probably don't even know about the German company.

Yeah afaik from looking on the UPS subreddit, they are being slammed with stuff right now, with a large backlog, many people seem to be having issues due to Brexit. That's what UPS staff are telling me anyway.
The company in UK just printed the label and stuff which I created on my end.
There was a delay from UPS for not having an invoice, which I was told by UPS I didn't need.
I filled in the invoice and sent it to them.
It seems to of gotten to Stansted now and the tracking keeps saying its cleared customs and then says there is an issue with missing invoices and then says it cleared customs again its all over the place.
Since I am the printer of the shipping label they would contact me about it all I guess if there is an issue.

silver2020

Another error is constantly calling them - surely you have email?

A phone call will never speed things up. Constant call and you get blacklisted and suddenly there's a go slow. Polite short factual email are the only way and ensures you have a written record.

And as above - its not for you to get involved with the delivery companies or to "re-route" it. You deal with the seller only.

Now that you have got UPS involved (why, I don't know), you have effectively accepted responsibility and if the item arrives damaged or if there's extra vat due, it is entirely your issue now and you will have no comeback

AndyOHart

As I mentioned in the OP, I have emailed many times. They haven't replied since the start of January.
Yeah I know that it isn't for me to get involved, the reason for doing it is because of the lack of communication back from the seller about getting it or investigating it.
To be honest I would be surprised if they can figure out I even got UPS involved since they don't seem to have any clue where it is since middle of December

silver2020

I'd just do a chargeback now. They have to prove you have received the item. Showing delivery in the UK will mean they will lose any defence immediately.

Keep it simple - your ordered, they have not delivered and tracking shows it was delivered to a UK address. Its a simple procedure.

I've had an issue with livingsocial for an item that they sold a voucher for and now can't deliver the item to Ireland even though it was sold on their Irish site. After a week of emails and replies where it was obvious they simply either don't read the email or don't understand the problem I've simply opened a PayPal dispute.

I'll always give a company a week to progress things, if no progress I default to chargeback/dispute.

A chargeback is usually completed and closed off within 14 days (can be longer due to covid)

runawaybishop

AndyOHart wrote: »

As I mentioned in the OP, I have emailed many times. They haven't replied since the start of January.
Yeah I know that it isn't for me to get involved, the reason for doing it is because of the lack of communication back from the seller about getting it or investigating it.
To be honest I would be surprised if they can figure out I even got UPS involved since they don't seem to have any clue where it is since middle of December

Constant emails aren't going to do much. Mail clearly and provide all details required. Tell them you will be opening a chargeback due to delays and lack of response, then do that even if they mail you back. Chargebacks aren't fast but they can light a fire under a company.

silver2020

silver2020 wrote: »

I'd just do a chargeback now. They have to prove you have received the item. Showing delivery in the UK will mean they will lose any defence immediately.

Keep it simple - your ordered, they have not delivered and tracking shows it was delivered to a UK address. Its a simple procedure.

I've had an issue with livingsocial for an item that they sold a voucher for and now can't deliver the item to Ireland even though it was sold on their Irish site. After a week of emails and replies where it was obvious they simply either don't read the email or don't understand the problem I've simply opened a PayPal dispute.

I'll always give a company a week to progress things, if no progress I default to chargeback/dispute.

A chargeback is usually completed and closed off within 14 days (can be longer due to covid)

That's hardly going to work when they can show the item handed over to the chosen courier company of the op.

whiterebel

People don't seem to be reading the full story. OP organised UPS to collect (took possession) from the incorrect delivery address. OP was advised to do a chargeback before getting it collected to light a fire under the shipper, but went ahead with the collection.

silver2020

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

That's hardly going to work when they can show the item handed over to the chosen courier company of the op.

whiterebel wrote: »

People don't seem to be reading the full story. OP organised UPS to collect (took possession) from the incorrect delivery address. OP was advised to do a chargeback before getting it collected to light a fire under the shipper, but went ahead with the collection.

But still not delivered.

And UPS are not overwhelmed. I've had road service delivery from UPS UK to here in 3 days. They don't rely on passenger aircraft for their air service either. My guess is there is no paperwork attached that conforms to the new brexit rules and its stuck in limbo.

Get UPS to return it the where they picked it up from and start the chargeback

silver2020

silver2020 wrote: »

But still not delivered.

And UPS are not overwhelmed. I've had road service delivery from UPS UK to here in 3 days. They don't rely on passenger aircraft for their air service either. My guess is there is no paperwork attached that conforms to the new brexit rules and its stuck in limbo.

Get UPS to return it the where they picked it up from and start the chargeback

And if it is not accepted back in the UK, what then? The op has paid UPS to pick an item up in the UK, they picked it up on his/her behalf.

whiterebel

After OP has taken ownership, get UPS to bring it back to someone they don't know from Adam? They need to get the paperwork from the exporter in Germany and see if UPS can ship it from that. I'll agree with one thing, it's not a UPS backlog. They just don't have any paperwork to ship it.

silver2020

silver2020 wrote: »

But still not delivered.

And UPS are not overwhelmed. I've had road service delivery from UPS UK to here in 3 days. They don't rely on passenger aircraft for their air service either. My guess is there is no paperwork attached that conforms to the new brexit rules and its stuck in limbo.

Get UPS to return it the where they picked it up from and start the chargeback

Not the shippers problem. The agent of the op took possession. The shippers responsibilities have finished.

It's now between ups and the op so there's no longer any recourse to proceed with a charge back against the shipper.

The suggestion that you can start a charge back after voluntarily returning a perfectly good item is ludicrous.

Op can of course start proceedings against ups but first I think he needs to establish the actual issue

AndyOHart

silver2020 wrote: »

I'd just do a chargeback now. They have to prove you have received the item. Showing delivery in the UK will mean they will lose any defence immediately.

Keep it simple - your ordered, they have not delivered and tracking shows it was delivered to a UK address. Its a simple procedure.

I've had an issue with livingsocial for an item that they sold a voucher for and now can't deliver the item to Ireland even though it was sold on their Irish site. After a week of emails and replies where it was obvious they simply either don't read the email or don't understand the problem I've simply opened a PayPal dispute.

I'll always give a company a week to progress things, if no progress I default to chargeback/dispute.

A chargeback is usually completed and closed off within 14 days (can be longer due to covid)

Yeah that was my thinking, the fact it was delivered to some random company in the UK and they aren't investigating it looks dodgy to me. However, I put in for a chargeback for something in September and still have not heard back. Seems to be taking very long

runawaybishop wrote: »

Constant emails aren't going to do much. Mail clearly and provide all details required. Tell them you will be opening a chargeback due to delays and lack of response, then do that even if they mail you back. Chargebacks aren't fast but they can light a fire under a company.

I have been though. I told them about 4 times if they don't reply I will initiate a charge back. I have given them so much information about whats happened and still no word back.

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

That's hardly going to work when they can show the item handed over to the chosen courier company of the op.

DHL will show that they handed to this company in the UK. The company in UK only found the package after one lad in IT saw a package addressed to a random person, opened it and saw a graphics card, then one of the ladies in support rang me and said she would print the labels and stuff if I wanted to organise collection.
DHL would have to speak to the right people in the company to even know if it went there, and part of me thinks they don't even know where it is since when I tried to call them they had no clue. It said it was signed for by James, lady on the phone said nobody works there called James, and the signature said 'left safe', so I have no idea.

whiterebel wrote: »

People don't seem to be reading the full story. OP organised UPS to collect (took possession) from the incorrect delivery address. OP was advised to do a chargeback before getting it collected to light a fire under the shipper, but went ahead with the collection.

I had organised UPS even before I wrote this thread, I just wrote this to see what if there is any action to be taken.

silver2020 wrote: »

But still not delivered.

And UPS are not overwhelmed. I've had road service delivery from UPS UK to here in 3 days. They don't rely on passenger aircraft for their air service either. My guess is there is no paperwork attached that conforms to the new brexit rules and its stuck in limbo.

Get UPS to return it the where they picked it up from and start the chargeback

I was reading on the UPS subreddit and seems there are quite a few people in the same boat. Constantly stuck in warehouse, support saying to just keep waiting etc. There was a delay initially because of a missing invoice (I was told by UPS rep I didn't need one). They sent me an invoice to fill out and I did and then they said it was fine, but since then there has been a good few scans saying missing invoice or paperwork, but then it gets scanned again saying it has cleared customs so I really don't know.

whiterebel

AndyOHart wrote: »

I had organised UPS even before I wrote this thread, I just wrote this to see what if there is any action to be taken.

"Send an email to the sender and tell them you have enough of a run around with their freight forwarder, and that if its not refunded within 2 days you will initiate a chargeback with your bank, or Paypal."

This was my suggestion to you on January 7th from the DHL thread that you put the initial post. You then organised UPS a week later. If you sent emails to the German supplier saying you had got UPS to collect, or that you needed paperwork to ship it from the UK, the Bank is going to take a pretty dim view of a chargeback.

AndyOHart

Apologies, I meant I organised UPS before this thread was created.
I emailed the German supplier and said if they don't get back to me with an update I will initiate the chargeback.
I made no mention of involving UPS or asking for paperwork. As far as the supplier sees, DHL delivered it.
If I was to go to the bank I would say the German company have not replied to me about my package since the start of January and have no offered any updates even after saying on the phone they would email in a week.
Again, I know involving UPS wasn't a great idea, but since I knew where my package was and the other crowd weren't helping I just said I would do it. It's just frustrating that they still have said nothing

whiterebel

AndyOHart wrote: »

Apologies, I meant I organised UPS before this thread was created.
I emailed the German supplier and said if they don't get back to me with an update I will initiate the chargeback.
I made no mention of involving UPS or asking for paperwork. As far as the supplier sees, DHL delivered it.
If I was to go to the bank I would say the German company have not replied to me about my package since the start of January and have no offered any updates even after saying on the phone they would email in a week.
Again, I know involving UPS wasn't a great idea, but since I knew where my package was and the other crowd weren't helping I just said I would do it. It's just frustrating that they still have said nothing

You do realise this could be construed as fraud? Your agent has the product in their possession, and you're looking to get the money back from the supplier?

AndyOHart

I'm posting this here to find out information regarding it, if anything can be done. Not necessarily do a charge back.
I said in the OP 'I don't expect to get all my money back, or want to'.
I want to pay for the item, but I would like to be reimbursed for all the phone calls and following up I had to do with the company since they wouldn't reply to emails. Some form of compensation would be nice. That's the main thing I'm wondering.

AndyOHart

AndyOHart wrote: »

DHL will show that they handed to this company in the UK. The company in UK only found the package after one lad in IT saw a package addressed to a random person, opened it and saw a graphics card, then one of the ladies in support rang me and said she would print the labels and stuff if I wanted to organise collection.
DHL would have to speak to the right people in the company to even know if it went there, and part of me thinks they don't even know where it is since when I tried to call them they had no clue. It said it was signed for by James, lady on the phone said nobody works there called James, and the signature said 'left safe', so I have no idea.

You arranged for its collection. DHL didnt hand it over without a scan or proof. Either way, you know its with UPS at your request, you know that its no longer in the hands of the shipper to resolve (I agree its shocking on their part by the way, no argument)

You cant seriously think phonecalls that you initiated will be refunded. Next time use a landline with an EU package and problem solved. You have made a number of bad decisions on this one and seem to want to make yet another because all you really want is for internet strangers to stroke your hair and tell you a dodgy chargeback is grand while ignoring the sound but legal good suggestions.

So yeah, thats fraud my friend. Want to engage in the lark, you work away but Im out of this thread with this last piece of advise, do it legally. Engage the services available which is UPS (They have an office here) and start an EU small claims complaint if you want to try and get compo

AndyOHart

Yeah it is shocking on their part.
Nah probably not refunded, but the German company told me on the phone they would give me some form of compensation and also said in an email they would refund the delivery costs, so I'm just trying to get anything back in that regard really.
I would love to have my hair caressed but unfortunately I'm fair bald.
Chargeback advice is the title of the thread, it wasn't set in stone I was going to do it, which is why I made the thread in the first place. There's a reason I made the thread and it was to get this sort of advice.
So regardless of the hair stroking comment I do appreciate the feedback. I wont be initiating a chargeback thanks to the advice here.
Cheers