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Tube fed 22lr rifles and restricted vs unrestricted? How it's achieved?

  • 29-01-2021 12:17am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭ Zxthinger


    So time to get a new 22lr. I was thinking of going with tube fed.
    The gun in question holds 14 22lr rounds before you start to seespace running out in the loading window in the tube. Once you get to here you push the spring loaded follower back into its closed position and lock it with a half turn of the cap..

    How do you reduce capacity on a tube fed rifle..?

    Any thoughts received with thanks


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭ JP22


    Truthfully, I do not know, it must be similar to old semi-auto shotguns which used a plastic plug.

    Someone here will know.

    Edit – Update.

    Done a quick Google, not a lot found online. One old US thread said it’s possible using a wooden dowel.

    Don’t know if this would comply with our current regs or not, I know shotgun tubes now have to be factory crimped to comply with regs.

    For years I had a Remington 1187 Premier Shotgun (heavy bugger but super gun) which came with different length plastic plugs to reduce capacity. I had it on a general unrestricted license (oops……..:D:D) then again that was many years ago when rules were lax, those were the days.


  • Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭ freddieot


    I stand to be corrected but as far as I know, Shotguns do not have to be factory crimped. Also how would you crimp a magazine fed shotgun for example ?

    Most are shipped by the manufacturer with a plastic plug insert. Sometimes several inserts and you pick the one for your country \ administration. Take the plug out and you have a restricted shotgun and are breaking the law unless you have a restricted licence.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,184 ✭✭✭✭ BattleCorp


    Are there any competitions that require you to have a greater magazine capacity than 10 rounds? That might allow you to apply for it as a restricted firearm.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,334 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Are there any competitions that require you to have a greater magazine capacity than 10 rounds? That might allow you to apply for it as a restricted firearm.

    You fall foul then of the EU directive on mag capacity in that it becomes a CAT A prohibited firearm with a mag capacity over 10 rounds.ASFIK there isnt anything bar IPSC that has a bigger shotgun or rifle round count than ten. Embassy and the like in shotguns are all within a 10 round limit.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,334 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    freddieot wrote: »
    I stand to be corrected but as far as I know, Shotguns do not have to be factory crimped. Also how would you crimp a magazine fed shotgun for example ?

    Most are shipped by the manufacturer with a plastic plug insert. Sometimes several inserts and you pick the one for your country \ administration. Take the plug out and you have a restricted shotgun and are breaking the law unless you have a restricted licence.

    The UK has plenty of neutered mag-fed crimped to 3 shot shotguns. They did this post-Hungerford to keep them on shotgun certs and not move them into a firearms certificate category of storage. Needed a proof house cert as well to comply.

    Modified or rendered incapable ... is how it is worded here in our legislation...And best left that way!;)

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭ Zxthinger


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    You fall foul then of the EU directive on mag capacity in that it becomes a CAT A prohibited firearm with a mag capacity over 10 rounds.ASFIK there isnt anything bar IPSC that has a bigger shotgun or rifle round count than ten. Embassy and the like in shotguns are all within a 10 round limit.

    I think that the ruling relates to items which are capable of being fitted to such firearms. ie being interchangeable/removable.

    The tube is intergrated and a non removable. Also the E U directive and it's enabling SI seem to be related at licence providers.

    The problem I have is that if I set it for 10 rounds then I use 22shorts then I'm over the 10.. so prob best just to declare it as restricted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,517 ✭✭✭ Traumadoc


    Zxthinger wrote: »
    So time to get a new 22lr. I was thinking of going with tube fed.
    The gun in question holds 14 22lr rounds before you start to seespace running out in the loading window in the tube. Once you get to here you push the spring loaded follower back into its closed position and lock it with a half turn of the cap..

    How do you reduce capacity on a tube fed rifle..?

    Any thoughts received with thanks

    Magazine in the stock or the foregrip


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,334 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Zxthinger wrote: »
    I think that the ruling relates to items which are capable of being fitted to such firearms. ie being interchangeable/removable.

    The tube is intergrated and a non removable. Also the E U directive and it's enabling SI seem to be related at licence providers.

    The problem I have is that if I set it for 10 rounds then I use 22shorts then I'm over the 10.. so prob best just to declare it as restricted.

    Nope!
    Also applies to firearms with an internal magazine capable of holding more than 10 rounds!.
    But in your case, it's moot as you are dealing with a .22 which doesn't fall under this legislation, just national legislation.

    The mag tube has to disassemble too, depending on the model and brand it could be simple or a gunsmith job,as it has to be cleaned and serviced sometime.

    So don't use .22 shorts,or go about with a loud hailer informing your local AGS and everyone of the fact.:p:)

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭ Zxthinger


    Traumadoc wrote: »
    Magazine in the stock or the foregrip

    It's a magazine in the forend.
    But it's fixed i.e. Not removable

    If I applied for restricted licence and it was licenced then its licenced..

    I still need to examine how to reduce the capacity. I suppose I'll look at the firearm and examine the best way to do it..

    I suppose the next question is, can a reduction in capacity be permitted for a rifle and will this be acceptable.
    I ask as I see shotguns are specifically mentioned as being approvable for licensing with modified magazines.. but I never seen the same quotations for long arms..


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster


    Many, many years ago there was a semi auto .22LR in the family, very old but serviceable. I can't recall the nature of the problem but a feed issue developed from its tubular magazine. The answer to the problem (whatever it was) was to -
    1. Shorten the magazine tube (outer one), this was cut back from the muzzel end and a new grove and notch cut in it to accommodate the feed tube locking lug.
    2. The feed tube was then shortened to accommodate the new length of the magazine tube. The feed tubes dismantled and shorted again from the muzzel end. As far as I remember (I shot this rifle a lot over the years of my youth) the end of the feed tube (closest to the breech) is rolled over / crimped to stop the spring loaded plunger from escaping the feed tube. If I remember correctly the plunger was a plastic affair with a coiled spring in place.

    The surgery reduced the magazine capacity but solved the feed issues. At the time I don't think there was an issue with the magazine capacity.

    If butchering the rifle is not an option there is a glimmer of hope of dismantling the feed tube and inserting a plug that is not easily removed without the aid of tools.

    PS

    If you do decide to reduce the magazine length remember that a deciding factor can be the forward mount between the outer tube and the barrel. That could govern the minimum length the overall mag may be shortened.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,174 ✭✭✭ J.R.


    On Benelli semi-auto shotgun they is a metal rod that just slides in from the bottom, up through the spring.
    When you take the fore-end cap off there is a rod that will come right out if you point the muzzle down.

    Could something similar work here?

    5438578219_ac42547cfe_z.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭ Zxthinger


    J.R. wrote: »
    On Benelli semi-auto shotgun they is a metal rod that just slides in from the bottom, up through the spring.
    When you take the fore-end cap off there is a rod that will come right out if you point the muzzle down.

    Could something similar work here?

    5438578219_ac42547cfe_z.jpg

    I'm thinking that it could


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster


    Have a look here...

    https://youtu.be/ye5-2qsPoj4

    Everything you need to know for what ever course of action you take.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭ Zxthinger


    That's a great video, thanks


  • Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭ smmember20


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    You fall foul then of the EU directive on mag capacity in that it becomes a CAT A prohibited firearm with a mag capacity over 10 rounds.ASFIK there isnt anything bar IPSC that has a bigger shotgun or rifle round count than ten. Embassy and the like in shotguns are all within a 10 round limit.

    Incorrect my friend. .22lr are not included in this directive as limited to 10 rounds, CF rifle only, however Irish legislation is such that .22Lr rifles are limited to 10 rounds licenced as non restricted, capacity >10 rounds requires a restricted licence, no big deal costs the same.

    Ops apolgies just saw your 2nd post in which you correctly say it is national legislation, apply as a restricted rifle only test is that you have to prove it is the only type of firearm that can do the job for you!! Although i'd expect less scrutiney for a .22 than say a .223 S/A!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭ Zxthinger


    smmember20 wrote: »
    Incorrect my friend. .22lr are not included in this directive as limited to 10 rounds, CF rifle only, however Irish legislation is such that .22Lr rifles are limited to 10 rounds licenced as non restricted, capacity >10 rounds requires a restricted licence, no big deal costs the same.

    Ops apolgies just saw your 2nd post in which you correctly say it is national legislation, apply as a restricted rifle only test is that you have to prove it is the only type of firearm that can do the job for you!! Although i'd expect less scrutiney for a .22 than say a .223 S/A!

    It's a bloody mine-field out here! Watch we're your going.. lol

    Sometimes I think that part of the buzz around guns is the legal side and learning what's allowable and what's not allowable, doable, defendable or advisable, never mind licensable..
    It all lovable..


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,334 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Quick rule of thumb. Above 10 rounds for round count for 22lr in Ireland...See national legislation.
    Above .22lr and round count...See EU legislation.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭ Zxthinger


    Good rule of thumb.. but you'd need to be a human millipede to have enough thumbs to keep on top of our legeslation..-

    I was looking at the limits in Irish legislation. It's a pity they didn't have the sense to exclude fixed magazines or tube fed rifles.. pity..


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