Psychology query in relation to Covid..

sporina

I have 2 acquaintances (say Mary and Jim) who both think that the government are trying to control us with the covid restrictions.. they do acknowledge that the virus exists but say its just a bad flu and that the government, health and media are exaggerating it as a way of controlling us... one of them even quoted George Orwell's 1984 etc...

I know that they are not alone in this..

But I am wondering, why do they choose to believe this?
Mary lives alone, hasn't many mates, works from home and is really struggling with the isolation and lack of freedom.
I am not arguing with her or trying to convince her otherwise, but from the conversations we have had, she is really miserable and even wants to move to Sweden ekk.
Before the virus she had other problems like struggling to cope with a trauma in her family etc, mild addictions etc..

But my Q is hypothetical - for people who refuse to see the pandemic for what it is, why do you think this is?

Is it about control - or the loss of it?

Its such a shame cos I really think that her beliefs are what are holding her captive - not the government etc.. all that anger and aggression is really upsetting her.. and a mutual friend is v worried about her..

TBH its him I am worried about - I don't know her well enough - but she is wrecking his head.. I think he wants to "fix" her.. but I don't think he can - I really think she needs therapy (but I am keeping my mouth shut)...

Anyway, would love to hear from someone who might have some insight..
TIA

Freedive Ireland

Hi in a similar situation with someone close to me. The last and most worrying correspondence was that this was no longer open to discussion with the person.

Anything is guesswork imho, however from their point of view, the goalposts of why and when the lockdowns will be over is fluid with no definite end in sight, this is distressing in itself. I think sometimes people may find purpose or a sense of meaning in the theories, as in, it's their mission now to save the world or the sheeple etc. Someone who is saving the world and has a mission is now important, at least within a certain group. They may also be receiving mutual support/contact from the group that they may not have had before. There isn't much logic behind it but then humans are rarely logical. Also I have no doubt some groups are leveraging the crisis for other aims and so the Great reset chimes in with this.

I am aware this is pop/armchair psychology. All I can do is gently challenge some of the items put forward, be honest when I can't explain something etc and fall back to asking what's more likely rather than whose right or wrong?
Best wishes.

sporina

sporina wrote: »

I have 2 acquaintances (say Mary and Jim) who both think that the government are trying to control us with the covid restrictions.. they do acknowledge that the virus exists but say its just a bad flu
Spanish Flu was a bad flu and killed 2.5% of people, up to tens of millions mind you! and that the government, health and media are exaggerating it as a way of controlling us... one of them even quoted George Orwell's 1984 etc... Well we are being controlled, anything other than normal, is not the new normal, it's ABnormal by definition if it differs in anyway from before, NEW Normal is marketed babble!, you mention 1984 to make them seem crazy I'll bet..

I know that they are not alone in this.. This being?? their opinion?

But I am wondering, why do they choose to believe this? why would they "BELIEVE" anything, who do Christians choose to believe in heaven and hell, they're making up their minds based on their perception of events which change to the contrary
Mary lives alone, hasn't many mates, works from home and is really struggling with the isolation and lack of freedom. So only lonely people fit your profile?
I am not arguing with her or trying to convince her otherwise, but from the conversations we have had, she is really miserable and even wants to move to Sweden ekk.
Before the virus she had other problems like struggling to cope with a trauma in her family etc, mild addictions etc..So rather than helping her, you start a thread disclosing her troubles in effort to paint a picture of an honest thread which really belongs in the conspiracy BIN!

But my Q is hypothetical - for people who refuse to see the pandemic for what it is, why do you think this is?

Is it about control - or the loss of it? Tell me about your mother???:rolleyes:

Its such a shame cos I really think that her beliefs are what are holding her captive - not the government etc.. all that anger and aggression is really upsetting her.. and a mutual friend is v worried about her..

TBH its him I am worried about - I don't know her well enough - but she is wrecking his head.. I think he wants to "fix" her.. but I don't think he can - I really think she needs therapy (but I am keeping my mouth shut)...
Belongs in personal issues in my book..nothing to do with Covid!

sporina

sporina wrote: »

I have 2 acquaintances (say Mary and Jim) who both think that the government are trying to control us with the covid restrictions.. they do acknowledge that the virus exists but say its just a bad flu and that the government, health and media are exaggerating it as a way of controlling us... one of them even quoted George Orwell's 1984 etc...

I know that they are not alone in this..

But I am wondering, why do they choose to believe this?
Mary lives alone, hasn't many mates, works from home and is really struggling with the isolation and lack of freedom.
I am not arguing with her or trying to convince her otherwise, but from the conversations we have had, she is really miserable and even wants to move to Sweden ekk.
Before the virus she had other problems like struggling to cope with a trauma in her family etc, mild addictions etc..

But my Q is hypothetical - for people who refuse to see the pandemic for what it is, why do you think this is?

Is it about control - or the loss of it?

Its such a shame cos I really think that her beliefs are what are holding her captive - not the government etc.. all that anger and aggression is really upsetting her.. and a mutual friend is v worried about her..

TBH its him I am worried about - I don't know her well enough - but she is wrecking his head.. I think he wants to "fix" her.. but I don't think he can - I really think she needs therapy (but I am keeping my mouth shut)...

Anyway, would love to hear from someone who might have some insight..
TIA

thanks for that..

don't think she is too worried about saving the world... or getting support from any group etc... she's v alone... and right now blames the government and covid for everything.. her isolation esp.. though like i said, she had a lot of probs before the virus..

JuliusCaesar

I'm no expert in this field, maybe people who research cults would have the facts, but I think these beliefs often come from those who feel excluded or powerless.

Now they have access to Secret Knowledge, they know the Truth, and it makes them feel special, like they matter - they know something the rest of us 'sheeple' who swallow the 'plandemic/scandemic' wholesale from 'Fake News' and the government.

They aren't generally amenable to reason, because they will have researched the entire thing thoroughly on a zillion mad websites. So there's no point in arguing with them.

All you can do is ask questions.

Just what is it that the govenment is getting out of shutting down the economy? What exactly are they gaining? Whereas the rest of us see the government as trying to balance the economy vs the health of the nation and making a bit of a hames of it, they see it all as a Big Plan. Where we see idiocy and often foolish decisions, governments trying to be popular ("saving Christmas" springs to mind) so they'll be re-elected, they see an amazing cleverness, a subtle plan to... to... what?

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-54738471

https://theconversation.com/ive-been-talking-to-conspiracy-theorists-for-20-years-here-are-my-six-rules-of-engagement-143132

https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/07/15/1004950/how-to-talk-to-conspiracy-theorists-and-still-be-kind/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2020/08/26/how-to-talk-with-and-maybe-help-someone-who-believes-in-qanon-and-other-conspiracy-theories/?sh=7ae931ee412d

And lastly: for those who are REALLY interested:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-20043-0

sporina

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

I'm no expert in this field, maybe people who research cults would have the facts, but I think these beliefs often come from those who feel excluded or powerless.

Now they have access to Secret Knowledge, they know the Truth, and it makes them feel special, like they matter - they know something the rest of us 'sheeple' who swallow the 'plandemic/scandemic' wholesale from 'Fake News' and the government.

They aren't generally amenable to reason, because they will have researched the entire thing thoroughly on a zillion mad websites. So there's no point in arguing with them.

All you can do is ask questions.

Just what is it that the govenment is getting out of shutting down the economy? What exactly are they gaining? Whereas the rest of us see the government as trying to balance the economy vs the health of the nation and making a bit of a hames of it, they see it all as a Big Plan. Where we see idiocy and often foolish decisions, governments trying to be popular ("saving Christmas" springs to mind) so they'll be re-elected, they see an amazing cleverness, a subtle plan to... to... what?

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-54738471

https://theconversation.com/ive-been-talking-to-conspiracy-theorists-for-20-years-here-are-my-six-rules-of-engagement-143132

https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/07/15/1004950/how-to-talk-to-conspiracy-theorists-and-still-be-kind/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2020/08/26/how-to-talk-with-and-maybe-help-someone-who-believes-in-qanon-and-other-conspiracy-theories/?sh=7ae931ee412d

thanks for that.. yes something you mentioned resonated with me there.. she has referred to us who are compliant as "sheep"..

not sure what she feels is the government's benefit of "controlling" us.. never asked..

thanks for the links..

Hoof Hearted2

Definitely becoming a lot more widespread and common in recent years and the pandemic just seems to have brought this kind of irrational way of thinking into sharp focus.

I blame it all on religion and it's promise of a saviour, and one consequence of that is a lot of people look externally for comfort and reassurance and inevitably when nothing of any real substance is forthcoming, it seems paranoia and conspiracy theories arise, so blame god.

Seriously though, there is no one at fault and no one is to blame, it just is what it is and everyone is doing their best.

I guess the best advice I can offer to you is to understand that she is in a really stressed state at the moment and it is almost impossible to reason with someone who is stressed.
I would try to show solidarity with the person by acknowledging and/or agreeing that "times are really tough at the moment", but that there is light at the end of the tunnel and vaccines are on the way and keep making plans for the future.

sporina

Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »

Definitely becoming a lot more widespread and common in recent years and the pandemic just seems to have brought this kind of irrational way of thinking into sharp focus.

I blame it all on religion and it's promise of a saviour, and one consequence of that is a lot of people look externally for comfort and reassurance and inevitably when nothing of any real substance is forthcoming, it seems paranoia and conspiracy theories arise, so blame god.

Seriously though, there is no one at fault and no one is to blame, it just is what it is and everyone is doing their best.

I guess the best advice I can offer to you is to understand that she is in a really stressed state at the moment and it is almost impossible to reason with someone who is stressed.
I would try to show solidarity with the person by acknowledging and/or agreeing that "times are really tough at the moment", but that there is light at the end of the tunnel and vaccines are on the way and keep making plans for the future.

hi ya thanks a mill for your reply... she has never mentioned God funnily enough - The government is her nemesis.. governments in general - she doesn't live in Ireland - but blames her government and ours et al..

Yes its been so hard to know what to say - things i have said seemed to have made her feel worse.. I mentioned how we are all in it together - but then she says how she is alone whereas i am not.. I mentioned the vaccine's but she is anti them too "not putting toxic stuff into my body - I don't trust them".. so yeah I think the only thing I can do is like you said, acknowledge her feelings of stress and show sympathy without trying at all to provide her with solutions..
although I did advise her to go for lots of walks which she is doing and is enjoying being in nature..

she definitely have a problem with her freedom being taken away from her (blames the government for that).. thats how she sees it..

i just think its such a shame cos I really think that her way of thinking is the real prob (and the source of it obviously)