Career Stagnation

Martin32

Age 40, chartered accountant working for a large multinational in Dublin while living in Wicklow. Salary + bonus 130k
On paper doing well but career has stalled. In the same role for 5 years, to be fair it is paid well but is becoming increasingly clear that ageism has developed in the workplace. When I look around me everyone 45+ has been made redundant apart from those in senior leadership roles. I also have no clear progression.
I do not need/want more money. The pre covid commute is the only really drawback although I have complete flexi-time

I wonder should I wait it out next 5 years max and get redundancy or look for something mow lower-paid but more long term sustainable. If I wait I may find it more difficult to get something when 45+

Thanks for reading

Diziet

I have seen plenty of people (including myself) getting jobs in their 40s and 50s, well paid jobs at that. If you want to move, then do, but I would not do so for less money, unless it is an amazing opportunity with other factors that balance out the lower pay.

If you are ok where you are, and you have a generous redundancy package, then personally I would stick it out and you walk out with a wodge of cash in your back pocket. That gives you a lot of flexibility.

Jim2007

Martin32 wrote: »

Age 40, chartered accountant working for a large multinational in Dublin while living in Wicklow. Salary + bonus 130k
On paper doing well but career has stalled. In the same role for 5 years, to be fair it is paid well but is becoming increasingly clear that ageism has developed in the workplace. When I look around me everyone 45+ has been made redundant apart from those in senior leadership roles. I also have no clear progression.
I do not need/want more money. The pre covid commute is the only really drawback although I have complete flexi-time

I wonder should I wait it out next 5 years max and get redundancy or look for something mow lower-paid but more long term sustainable. If I wait I may find it more difficult to get something when 45+

Thanks for reading

So you are basically looking for more of the same, only with better job security???

Martin32

Better job security for sure but also more chance of change and or progression

Diziet

Well, you have job security now, you have not been made redundant yet. And redundancy is not a bad thing, after some time in a company.

Change and growth are a more important thing. Can you do anything in your own company? Push for increased responsibility? Additional training? Some outside mentoring/voluntary activity? Charity boards are crying out for people with your skills and the work is varied and rewarding (not paid, obv.)

If you decide to move, move for growth, a good team and a happy working environmet rather than security. Security can never be guaranteed.

I still think your ageism concerns are probably a little alarmist.

Jim2007

Diziet wrote: »

If you decide to move, move for growth, a good team and a happy working environmet rather than security. Security can never be guaranteed.

Neither is growth, a good team and a happy working environment, a single change in a team member and the latter two are gone...

In the hay days of the chemical industry and banking (the areas I worked in), our bonuses were measured in multiples of our monthly salaries, where as today it a fraction of a monthly salary.

Nothing is for ever, the OP probably has it as good as it’s going to get, given what he is looking for.

I still think your ageism concerns are probably a little alarmist.

Sadly I suspect he is not far off. Outsourcing of accounting/finance is only starting to take off. There is no reason why it needs to be done on shore. There is less personal data involved than in say HR which is already outsourced and the former British colonies offer a similar legal/financial structure as here.

PhilOssophy

Sadly, I have previous experience of a workplace where security is guaranteed, and it creates a worse atmosphere than anybody could ever appreciate.
It creates an untouchable attitude, you would need to physically maim somebody to be fired. The toxic culture this generates is incredible.
Stick it out OP - career stagnation is something everybody sees.
If I were you, I'd save every penny you can, max out the pension contributions, and take the cash when it is inevitably offered to you.

Smee_Again

If there's a possibility of being made redundant in 5 years can you spend that time building a network of potential clients and going out on your own?

Jim2007

Martin32 wrote: »

Age 40, chartered accountant working for a large multinational in Dublin while living in Wicklow. Salary + bonus 130k
On paper doing well but career has stalled. In the same role for 5 years, to be fair it is paid well but is becoming increasingly clear that ageism has developed in the workplace. When I look around me everyone 45+ has been made redundant apart from those in senior leadership roles. I also have no clear progression.
I do not need/want more money. The pre covid commute is the only really drawback although I have complete flexi-time

May be the first thing to realise is that what has been going on in Ireland over the past two decades is not the norm, in fact it is the very opposite. The Irish economy is maturing and gravitating towards the typical European economy, some sectors more quickly than others.

It is not normal to get a promotion every two or three years nor a pay increase. Most professionals in Europe can expect to reach a mid ranking supervisory role and sit there until retirement age.

So depending on your sector, is that norm or are there opportunities at competitors that still offer room for progression?

Martin32 wrote: »

I wonder should I wait it out next 5 years max and get redundancy or look for something mow lower-paid but more long term sustainable. If I wait I may find it more difficult to get something when 45+

I don't think any of us can really answer that one for you. If you are being honest with yourself, have you reached your full potential, what kind of feedback are you getting from reviews etc.....

If you feel that you have gone as far as you can go, then taking the next five years to prepare for the big blow out might be the answer - but really prepare for it, don't just sit about waiting for it to happen. As an accountant, there are options to start building up some kind of consultancy or practice, for example.

I'm a Chartered Accountant by profession myself as well, ex big-four and all that jazz. But I have not had a job in a couple of years, nor have I bothered looking. I was heavily involved in Asset Management and we (five of us) recognised in our mid 20s that it was unlikely we'd survive to retirement age nor did we want to. So we prepared accordingly to exit early.

PhilOssophy

Jim2007 wrote: »

Sadly I suspect he is not far off. Outsourcing of accounting/finance is only starting to take off. There is no reason why it needs to be done on shore. There is less personal data involved than in say HR which is already outsourced and the former British colonies offer a similar legal/financial structure as here.

I'm not so sure. There are plenty of companies who want their accounts done locally, or in-house. In fact, I think finance might be the last thing to be out-sourced.

Plenty of small businesses like to know their accountant, who knows the lie of the land in Ireland both in terms of Revenue, economy, etc and see the money spent on the local accountant as money well spent if their advice improves their situation.

I could be way off on that, but that is how I see things. Others can have different opinions and thoughts.

Martin32

Thank you all for the really considered replies.

Jim2007

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I'm not so sure. There are plenty of companies who want their accounts done locally, or in-house. In fact, I think finance might be the last thing to be out-sourced.

Plenty of small businesses like to know their accountant, who knows the lie of the land in Ireland both in terms of Revenue, economy, etc and see the money spent on the local accountant as money well spent if their advice improves their situation.

I could be way off on that, but that is how I see things. Others can have different opinions and thoughts.

It's already happening....



An Irish firm can get an Indian Chartered Accountant to extract the final accounts for them for about 50 euros a week, you can't even get juniors to for those prices...


Just because you need to have the F2F local, it does not mean you can't do the back office somewhere else...



Companies are getting outsourced accountants to do monthly accounts, analysis reports etc...



I have used these guys in the past do do the grunt work: https://www.meruaccounting.com/

Thematics

Martin32 wrote: »

Better job security for sure but also more chance of change and or progression

What does progression mean and why do you care about it?

AndrewJRenko

Ageism is definitely an issue, though significantly less so in the public sector. You could keep an eye out for senior FC/FD roles in public bodies or semi-states. Or apply for a general Principal Officer competition, though they tend to look for general leadership skills rather than specifically Finance roles.

I'm not sure about the advice to hang around for redundancy. If you do find it impossible to find another role at senior level, a redundancy payment would run out fairly quick.

Mrs OBumble

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'm not sure about the advice to hang around for redundancy. If you do find it impossible to find another role at senior level, a redundancy payment would run out fairly quick.

When I was 30-ish, I chose to leave a company rather than hang around for two years for an inevitable redundancy. But I only had a few years service, so the payout would not have been worith it, and for me time would have been destructive.

But at 40, if you can see a way to becoming self-employed or even to having a side-gig which you enjoy and can supplement your income, then I would say to spend the time preparing for and starting this, as well as saving.

One option is to become a specialist in some obscure but internationally-interesting topic. That way, you can potentially get customers outside of Ireland.

PhilOssophy

Jim2007 wrote: »

It's already happening....



An Irish firm can get an Indian Chartered Accountant to extract the final accounts for them for about 50 euros a week, you can't even get juniors to for those prices...


Just because you need to have the F2F local, it does not mean you can't do the back office somewhere else...



Companies are getting outsourced accountants to do monthly accounts, analysis reports etc...



I have used these guys in the past do do the grunt work: https://www.meruaccounting.com/

I never said anybody couldn't!

Of course you can outsource anything, but the old adage of paying peanuts you'll get monkeys springs to mind.

I doubt some guy in Mumbai is going to be as up-to-speed with the state of the economy or Revenue guidelines, etc than a guy living in Ireland. That is what people pay professionals for, be they accountants/solicitors/whatever.

I also think many companies who have outsourced have realised it didn't work and brought it back either into the country or in-house.

Just my opinion!

beauf

I think something similar. Build up savings, look at diversified income streams. They might start small but build over time. Don't burn bridges with an established (current) income stream. Especially if you can't replace it.

I had a friend in a similar position 200k+ salary but different industry. Tried getting a comparative job in other areas but came to realise no one saw his experience or skillset as transferable. He went did a MBA and got more business and management experience in a different area but in his own industry. Thus that has kept his interest where he is. He tried a few small businesses on the side but they didn't work out.

I think he was expecting the world to fall at his feet was a bit shocked when they didn't. Same with small businesses I think he thought they would return more. Ultimately he had lost perspective how well he was doing, compared to most people.

But it can be done. But it's a slow burner and you need a ultimate goal. It might to be semi retired and dabbling in different business or revenue streams so that if one or two fail it doesn't cripple you financially.

Don't forget to enjoy life and live it...

beauf

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I never said anybody couldn't!

Of course you can outsource anything, but the old adage of paying peanuts you'll get monkeys springs to mind.

I doubt some guy in Mumbai is going to be as up-to-speed with the state of the economy or Revenue guidelines, etc than a guy living in Ireland. That is what people pay professionals for, be they accountants/solicitors/whatever.

I also think many companies who have outsourced have realised it didn't work and brought it back either into the country or in-house.

Just my opinion!

Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. Mostly depending on the people involved in it.

Martin32

Thematics wrote: »

What does progression mean and why do you care about it?

More that anyone seen to be standing still gets the tap on the shoulder- out

Martin32

Thanks that sums up exactly where I am at
I’m just finishing an mba which will hopefully broaden my opportunities but for sure it’s no magic bullet

beauf

For my friend, the MBA meant he got involved in other projects in the company. It was those projects that created other opportunities.