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Top young outhalves in Ireland

  • 28-01-2021 12:00pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,024 bayern


    Top young outhalves in Ireland(23 and under):

    1. Harry Byrne(21/Leinster)
    2. Ben Healy(21/Munster)
    3. Jack Crowley(20/Munster)
    4. Bill Johnston(23/Ulster)
    5. Conor Fitzgerald(23/Connacht)


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,295 ✭✭✭ launish116


    Lowry could feature there yet


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,024 bayern


    launish116 wrote: »
    Lowry could feature there yet

    doesn't play 10 regularly so didn't include him, same with Frawley.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,031 ✭✭✭ Serbian


    Interesting, is this in any particular order?

    I've been building up stats for various players in Ireland so put some of it to good use. Here's a table with some arbitrary info on each player.

    Name | Age | Province | Minutes | Tries | Kick % | Kick Attempts
    Harry Byrne | 21 | Leinster | 717 | 3 | 76% | 45/59
    Ben Healy | 21 | Munster | 552 | 0 | 86% | 32/37
    Jack Crowley | 20 | Munster | 14 | 0 | 100% | 1/1
    Bill Johnston | 23 | Ulster | 1,128 | 1 | 77% | 36/47
    Conor Fitzgerald | 23 | Connacht | 1,282 | 0 | 74% | 35/47


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,024 bayern


    Serbian wrote: »
    Interesting, is this in any particular order?

    I've been building up stats for various players in Ireland so put some of it to good use. Here's a table with some arbitrary info on each player.

    Name | Age | Province | Minutes | Tries | Kick %
    Harry Byrne | 21 | Leinster | 717 | 3 | 76% (45/59)
    Ben Healy | 21 | Munster | 552 | 0 | 86% (32/37)
    Jack Crowley | 20 | Munster | 14 | 0 | 100% (1/1)
    Bill Johnston | 23 | Ulster | 1,128 | 1 | 77% (36/47)
    Conor Fitzgerald | 23 | Connacht | 1,282 | 0 | 74% (35/47)

    Just how I rate them going forward.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,046 ✭✭✭ arsebiscuits1


    Those are impressive kicking stats from Ben on a reasonable sample size.

    76% for Harry is a good return for a young 10 also but it's an area of his game I'd like to see improve. Without any info to back it up I'd wager that Harrys kicks from outside the tramlines are still probably 50-60% where as I'd expect top kickers to be hitting those 70% +


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,031 ✭✭✭ Serbian


    Those are impressive kicking stats from Ben on a reasonable sample size.

    76% for Harry is a good return for a young 10 also but it's an area of his game I'd like to see improve. Without any info to back it up I'd wager that Harrys kicks from outside the tramlines are still probably 50-60% where as I'd expect top kickers to be hitting those 70% +

    There's a good South African site that aims to track all kickers and measure the relative difficulty of their kicks etc — they don't have full stats for all the kickers unfortunately, but of the ones they have tracked for Harry Byrne, he has kicked 12/18 from the tramlines (66%). Healy has 6/8 (75%), Johnston is 9/13 (69%), and Fitzgerald is 9/15 (60%).

    Could be on to something there, but their data set is definitely incomplete and I've just eyeballed what has roughly looked inside / outside so could be wrong there too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,046 ✭✭✭ arsebiscuits1


    Serbian wrote: »
    There's a good South African site that aims to track all kickers and measure the relative difficulty of their kicks etc — they don't have full stats for all the kickers unfortunately, but of the ones they have tracked for Harry Byrne, he has kicked 12/18 from the tramlines (66%). Healy has 6/8 (75%), Johnston is 9/13 (69%), and Fitzgerald is 9/15 (60%).

    Could be on to something there, but their data set is definitely incomplete and I've just eyeballed what has roughly looked inside / outside so could be wrong there too.

    That's a great site. Will be checking that out.

    I know some coaches use various zones for their kickers.

    Some I've seen basically split them 95% 85% and 70% or something like that - obviously it can be tailored per the kicker.

    Gives a much clearer picture than just "oh so and so is a poor kicker" etc when in actual fact their kicking is quite good per their zonal expectations


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭ yerrahbah


    bayern wrote: »
    Top young outhalves in Ireland(23 and under):

    1. Harry Byrne(21/Leinster)
    2. Ben Healy(21/Munster)
    3. Jack Crowley(20/Munster)
    4. Bill Johnston(23/Ulster)
    5. Conor Fitzgerald(23/Connacht)

    4 out of the 5 came through the Munster right?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,175 ✭✭✭ Sanjuro


    Any thoughts on Frawley moving back to 10 or has he nailed his flag to the 12 mast?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,046 ✭✭✭ arsebiscuits1


    Sanjuro wrote: »
    Any thoughts on Frawley moving back to 10 or has he nailed his flag to the 12 mast?

    I think he had that flag nailed to the mast for him by Lancaster.

    I don't think there is any short term need for him to be a 10. They're clearly backing Harry there.

    And in fairness to Frawley he could definitely prove his worth there.

    At present I'd have him at second choice 12. And given how often Ringrose and Robbie are unavailable for whatever reason he could well find himself starting big games at 12 beside one of them


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,024 bayern


    Sanjuro wrote: »
    Any thoughts on Frawley moving back to 10 or has he nailed his flag to the 12 mast?

    think he is better suited to 12 for me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,024 bayern


    Top underage outhalves

    1. Charlie Tector(Leinster)
    2. Tim Corkery(Leinster)
    3. Cian Whooley(Munster)
    4. Cathal Forde(Connacht)
    5. James Humphreys(Ulster)


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,218 ✭✭✭✭ bilston


    bayern wrote: »
    Top young outhalves in Ireland(23 and under):

    1. Harry Byrne(21/Leinster)
    2. Ben Healy(21/Munster)
    3. Jack Crowley(20/Munster)
    4. Bill Johnston(23/Ulster)
    5. Conor Fitzgerald(23/Connacht)

    Listening to ROG on OTB the other day it sounded like Crowley is rated higher at Munster than Healy.

    I think Johnston is unlucky not to be getting more game time at Ulster.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭ theVersatile


    bilston wrote: »
    Listening to ROG on OTB the other day it sounded like Crowley is rated higher at Munster than Healy.

    I think Johnston is unlucky not to be getting more game time at Ulster.

    I know from that article a while ago that ROG rates Crowley higher (mind he hadn't seen too much of Healy). I'd say at least short term Munster view Ben as ahead of Jack but I wouldn't be surprised if Jack is viewed as a better long term potential prospect who needs a year or two. The team selection for Bennetton might reveal a lot.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,731 ✭✭✭ Tim Robbins


    bayern wrote: »
    Top young outhalves in Ireland(23 and under):

    1. Harry Byrne(21/Leinster)
    2. Ben Healy(21/Munster)
    3. Jack Crowley(20/Munster)
    4. Bill Johnston(23/Ulster)
    5. Conor Fitzgerald(23/Connacht)

    Frawley better than all of them in my view.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,046 ✭✭✭ arsebiscuits1


    Frawley better than all of them in my view.

    Not in the coaches view.

    Frawley clearly being seen as a 12


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,024 bayern


    Rumoured Joey about to return and JJ re-signed with Munster.

    How are Healy, Crowley and Flannery going to develop in Munster?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,860 ✭✭✭ Wegians89


    bayern wrote: »
    Rumoured Joey about to return and JJ re-signed with Munster.

    How are Healy, Crowley and Flannery going to develop in Munster?

    Send one up to Connacht? In the market for a young ten if the hawkshaw rumours are true


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,024 bayern


    Wegians89 wrote: »
    Send one up to Connacht? In the market for a young ten if the hawkshaw rumours are true

    Yeah if I was Flannery i'd be all over it given he hasn't came near to senior game time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,046 ✭✭✭ arsebiscuits1


    Saw Jackman allude to another contract for JJ yeah.

    Would absolutely make sense for one of them to go to Connacht. Behind Carty there's only Fitzgerald really and I don't think he's developed as much as the coaches would have liked.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,039 ✭✭✭ UAEguy2020


    I don’t think as a country we can complain about not having enough teams to give young 10s game time when we are wasting 25% of potential first team starts at 10 on a 10 that will never be good enough to play for Ireland...


  • Subscribers Posts: 36,240 ✭✭✭✭ sydthebeat


    Saw Jackman allude to another contract for JJ yeah.

    Would absolutely make sense for one of them to go to Connacht. Behind Carty there's only Fitzgerald really and I don't think he's developed as much as the coaches would have liked.

    whats the story with conor dean?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,024 bayern


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    whats the story with conor dean?

    playing 15 today for a reason.


  • Subscribers Posts: 36,240 ✭✭✭✭ sydthebeat


    bayern wrote: »
    playing 15 today for a reason.

    which is ???

    conor fitzgerald having more experience at 10 ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,024 bayern


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    which is ???

    conor fitzgerald having more experience at 10 ?

    Just not being that highly rated.

    You'd wonder if being his fathers son has helped him.


  • Subscribers Posts: 36,240 ✭✭✭✭ sydthebeat


    bayern wrote: »
    Just not being that highly rated.

    You'd wonder if being his fathers son has helped him.

    i wouldn't surmise anything along those lines, though i know nothing about his situation


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,024 bayern


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    i wouldn't surmise anything along those lines, though i know nothing about his situation

    Look he is a decent player but if he was highly rated he'd have played a lot more at this stage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,731 ✭✭✭ Tim Robbins


    Not in the coaches view.

    Frawley clearly being seen as a 12
    Think Stuart likes two playmakers and there's none at 15 with Joey gone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,024 bayern


    Think Stuart likes two playmakers and there's none at 15 with Joey gone.

    unless JOB plays 15.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,024 bayern


    Starts at 10 in the past 12 months:

    Harry Byrne(21) - 8, 7 for Leinster, 1 for Leinster A
    Ben Healy(21) - 6, 5 for Munster, 1 for Munster A
    Jack Crowley(21) - 2 for Munster A


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