Change from suckler to beef

Scrotumsbridge

Hello everyone. We have a suckler herd of 20 cows and also run 20 ewes on marginal land. I'm the next generation who will takeover in the future. However due to the nature of my work, I won't be able to move home from Dublin for at least another 5-6 years. What's the easiest system to run for the medium-long term without renting the land? I want my parents to change the system from suckler to beef and reduce the sheep numbers by half. Suckler cows are costly to keep at an estimated €600-€700 per year.

I figured a beef system would be easier to keep as there's no calving to worry about and the headaches and physical stress that may come with it, also not having to worry about getting cows in calf. My parents are not getting any younger, and have back issues from years of hard work. One of my parents is reluctant to get rid of cows as they always had them. I'm trying to push them in the beef direction but i'm facing extreme resistance. Do you guys have any advice?

Is beef indifferent from suckler from a financial POV?

hopeso

A lot of your points are valid, but beef isn't all that simple either. The store cattle will have to be sourced, feed will have to be sourced and stored, the cattle will be large and in some cases lively, which might be a consideration with older people handling them. After all that, you sell them for what the factory give you on the day, which is often at a loss.

Would cutting the cow numbers down be an option? Use an easy calving AA bull.

SuperTortoise

Scrotumsbridge wrote: »

Hello everyone. We have a suckler herd of 20 cows and also run 20 ewes on marginal land. I'm the next generation who will takeover in the future. However due to the nature of my work, I won't be able to move home from Dublin for at least another 5-6 years. What's the easiest system to run for the medium-long term without renting the land? I want my parents to change the system from suckler to beef and reduce the sheep numbers by half. Suckler cows are costly to keep at an estimated €600-€700 per year.

I figured a beef system would be easier to keep as there's no calving to worry about and the headaches and physical stress that may come with it, also not having to worry about getting cows in calf. My parents are not getting any younger, and have back issues from years of hard work. One of my parents is reluctant to get rid of cows as they always had them. I'm trying to push them in the beef direction but i'm facing extreme resistance. Do you guys have any advice?

Is beef indifferent from suckler from a financial POV?

There's no money in either system really, but dry stock would probably be a little easier to manage, provided the right kind of cattle can be sourced and depending on your setup.

Hard Knocks

Scrotumsbridge wrote: »

Hello everyone. We have a suckler herd of 20 cows and also run 20 ewes on marginal land. I'm the next generation who will takeover in the future. However due to the nature of my work, I won't be able to move home from Dublin for at least another 5-6 years. What's the easiest system to run for the medium-long term without renting the land? I want my parents to change the system from suckler to beef and reduce the sheep numbers by half. Suckler cows are costly to keep at an estimated €600-€700 per year.

I figured a beef system would be easier to keep as there's no calving to worry about and the headaches and physical stress that may come with it, also not having to worry about getting cows in calf. My parents are not getting any younger, and have back issues from years of hard work. One of my parents is reluctant to get rid of cows as they always had them. I'm trying to push them in the beef direction but i'm facing extreme resistance. Do you guys have any advice?

Is beef indifferent from suckler from a financial POV?

Is there an option to tighten the calving and either take some time off or hire someone to calve the cows?

Anto_Meath

You would need to be very selective about the type of cattle you are trying to fatten on marginal land. It takes with good grass or meal to but beef on most cattle so carrying out meal to cattle isn't an easy task either. If you can get cows rights it doesn't have to be that much work but in all types of farming the is always the unpredictable.

kk.man

There is money in beef but it depends on a few factors. Firstly you have to know what you are at in the beef game. You will get loads of willing ppl who will get you beef stock but unfortunately 90% are only in it for their own self interest. I gave up suckling a good few years and the cows were the breed for generations on the farm. But I have not regretted it. I know I can't work wise return to suckling but financially I would not even consider it. If you know little about the game or can't find a decent person to get stock for you my advice would be to not get into beef because there will be losses.

On the sheep side would you not consider buying ewe lambs in Autumn and selling them as hoggets in the following summer/autumn? Again get to know the trade and see what type of sheep make a premium in your neck of the woods.

charolais0153

kk.man wrote: »

There is money in beef but it depends on a few factors. Firstly you have to know what you are at in the beef game. You will get loads of willing ppl who will get you beef stock but unfortunately 90% are only in it for their own self interest. I gave up suckling a good few years and the cows were the breed for generations on the farm. But I have not regretted it. I know I can't work wise return to suckling but financially I would not even consider it. If you know little about the game or can't find a decent person to get stock for you my advice would be to not get into beef because there will be losses.

On the sheep side would you not consider buying ewe lambs in Autumn and selling them as hoggets in the following summer/autumn? Again get to know the trade and see what type of sheep make a premium in your neck of the woods.

Buying breeding lambs is no gimmy, see a daughter and father buying teh dearest of lambs around here and they would never have that dear of hoggets , poorly done sheep

kk.man

charolais0153 wrote: »

Buying breeding lambs is no gimmy, see a daughter and father buying teh dearest of lambs around here and they would never have that dear of hoggets , poorly done sheep

Like I said get to know the game.

They certainly was a nice turn in them this year and could be even better next year with ppl cashing in on the good hogget trade and possible northern interest.

Albert Johnson

kk.man wrote: »

Like I said get to know the game.

They certainly was a nice turn in them this year and could be even better next year with ppl cashing in on the good hogget trade and possible northern interest.

Good breeding hoggets would have left a turn this backend but there were at least 2 poor year's before that. It takes a while to get established and see what does and doesn't work. I'd be slow to recommend it solely because it worked this year, I'm not begrudging anyone there profit but it won't always be as successful.

Someone mentioned perhaps reducing cow numbers and running an AA bull with them. This is possibly the best compromise imo, it reduces the workload and risk while still allowing those involved to continue at what they know. If they ran 10 cows and kept all progeny through to slaughter or forward store they'd still have a good stocking level but hopefully less workload.

JohnChadwick

Would dairy calves to beef be the best option to switch to?

Easy to source, cheap and requires a low demand on your time?

Would be low risk surely?

Hard Knocks

JohnChadwick wrote: »

Would dairy calves to beef be the best option to switch to?

Easy to source, cheap and requires a low demand on your time?

Would be low risk surely?

Just cos they’re low in cost doesn’t make it low in risk
A few sick calves can bring lots of hardship l, which is what the OP is trying to avoid

Dunedin

Nearly every option here has been knocked back by someone. Reality is that no system is going to guarantee a decent € return but that’s farming at the moment.

I don’t see anything above going to dry stock. If OP is in Dublin with elderly parents then reduced cow numbers is still not really a plausible solution irrespective of AA bull as they still have to be watched and minded and you’ll get a cross/dangerous cow/foot down at calving/calf coming back ways/calf won’t suck/calf won’t stand etc. in every breed,

Give the op a bit of encouragement. Buy a few dry stock in spring and sell in the autumn. You won’t make a fortune but you won’t lose a fortune either and it’s the less labour requirement of any system. Just make sure your fencing is good (you don’t want to be getting calls from the neighbors whilst you are in a meeting in Dublin!!). Can always get back into a few cows when he/she moves back from Dublin. And it’s therapeutic for the parents to do a bit of herding every day whilst minimal dangers/exertion for them.

Best of luck

893bet

Scrotumsbridge wrote: »

Hello everyone. We have a suckler herd of 20 cows and also run 20 ewes on marginal land. I'm the next generation who will takeover in the future. However due to the nature of my work, I won't be able to move home from Dublin for at least another 5-6 years. What's the easiest system to run for the medium-long term without renting the land? I want my parents to change the system from suckler to beef and reduce the sheep numbers by half. Suckler cows are costly to keep at an estimated €600-€700 per year.

I figured a beef system would be easier to keep as there's no calving to worry about and the headaches and physical stress that may come with it, also not having to worry about getting cows in calf. My parents are not getting any younger, and have back issues from years of hard work. One of my parents is reluctant to get rid of cows as they always had them. I'm trying to push them in the beef direction but i'm facing extreme resistance. Do you guys have any advice?

Is beef indifferent from suckler from a financial POV?

It’s just different hardship.

I look at our farm 16-20 sucklers that are quite as lambs. I was just down with one who calves 4 hours ago and gave her a small feed and then hand milked her. No calving gate, just loose in the shed. You can do that with all our cows bar one who is flighty and I want rid off. They haves a with wide calving pattern (usually 8 months over the year) that has advantages and disadvantages. We have never tried really to tighten. If my father wasnt around during the day to watch for heat and all the AI man it would likely be worse. Or at least more difficult with me having to leave a cow in the crush for hours on end for the AI man.

The I think if we had our own bull that would be much easier. But the calves won’t be as good, the bull will need to be changed every few years, we don’t have the set up for a bull and the general danger of a LM bull. It’s just a different set of problems.

Then I think get rid of the suckers and try weanling to store system or similar. Then you are buying when prices are highest and selling when they are lowest usually. Bother of getting in good cattle. They won’t be anyway near as quiet as current herd do be, risk of importing disease etc. Just a different set of problems.

So that’s it really. Grass is always greener. But over the hill is a different set of challenges.

TooOldBoots

Options are

1. Reduce cow numbers, introduce a very easy calving bull
2. Calf to Beef
3. Store to Beef
4. Fattening Canner cows
5. Rent out the farm to a qualified farmer for full tax relief
6. Go the Silviculture route
7. Fully plant the land

The list reads from unprofitable to most profit

Bass Reeves

It would depend on how marginal your land is. If it ease of management then dairy cross stock are your parents best bet. If your land is not completely marginal then a store Robert system is the best option. You ev n fatten heifers on marginal land. If you mind your land it helps s lot. Remember you are putting a lively store out in spring do they will gallop around the first few days.

Trying to graze a place off in autumn as with Suckler cows is not necessarily the answer with a beef system. But lightish stores mid summer and finishing flowing summer may be an option. Weanling to beef is an option as well. You buy a lot if dairy weanlings fairly handy. If your father is willing to being them home you can buy online in Dublin and let him head off for 3-4 weanlings or stores in an 8*5 box. Beef systems will not stand cost however you will run 2-4 stores and 3-4 weanlings where you run a cow. As Jam says mob grazing and a paddock system. Mice water troughs to middle of field. You can have 4 mini paddocks around a trough put up using pigtails and reels. Cattle that are paddock grazed and moved every 4-5 days become very docile even the odd nutcase settles down.

If you had good land I say store to beef, weanling to store/ beef depending on how marginal land is. AA or HE bullocks or heifers.

endainoz

TooOldBoots wrote: »

Options are

1. Reduce cow numbers, introduce a very easy calving bull
2. Calf to Beef
3. Store to Beef
4. Fattening Canner cows
5. Rent out the farm to a qualified farmer for full tax relief
6. Go the Silviculture route
7. Fully plant the land

The list reads from unprofitable to most profit

The OP doesn't want to rent it out and fully planting isn't an option if they want to do it themselves in a few years. Dry stock would probably suit them for a few years, they can always change back to a suckler system in a few years.

I wouldn't be so gone on the idea of getting a "very easy calving bull either" The easy calving bulls can still cause trouble from time to time. If the OP can't be there or within a reasonable distance to intervene if needed, then its not worth the risk.

Ford4life

Buy in a couple of AA bulls would be the right job I reckon, docile and put on good weight, buy them at a month or so at around 200 each to buy only just feed them milk replacer and ration up to 2 months, then a paddock system with mob grazing in the summer and give them ration once/twice a day

lalababa

Wealings/runners to yearlings or stores would be my best bet as the easiest system that still includes livestock! Ha ha.
Oh .. and get rid of the ewes.