Didn't get the job due to being unemployed

Dublin Lad2021

Hi,

I work in an industry that's been affected pretty bad by the Pandemic, I've been applying for everything I can every single week however last week I applied for a role that would be working for a recruitment agency but based on site at the client's location. Effectively I'd be working for the client but getting paid by the agency. I got a phone call and did and did an impromptu interview with the agency, sold myself and my skills relevant to the position very well however I heard on Monday that they're not putting me forward for the position due to me being unemployed... Can they do this? Is this legal? What do they expect during a pandemic?

As you can imagine I'm very disappointed not only for myself but to think that people who have lost their jobs are still being overlooked for people who haven't

Dav010

It’s hard to see how it could be illegal. Employment status is not one of the illegal grounds for discrimination.

Dublin Lad2021

Dav010 wrote: »

It’s hard to see how it could be illegal. Employment status is not one of the illegal grounds for discrimination.

That's true and my thinking however you're not allowed discriminate against fixed term employees or part time employees for example yet they're not one of the 9 protected grounds either hence why question here

Dav010

Dublin Lad2021 wrote: »

That's true and my thinking however you're not allowed discriminate against fixed term employees or part time employees for example yet they're not one of the 9 protected grounds either hence why question here

What you are referring to there is employment law, but you are not an employee yet. The employer cannot discriminate against you on one of the nine grounds when considering you as an applicant, but employment status is not one of them.

Discrimination is not illegal, unless it is one of the designated grounds.

Chrisam

Dublin Lad2021 wrote: »

Hi,

I work in an industry that's been affected pretty bad by the Pandemic, I've been applying for everything I can every single week however last week I applied for a role that would be working for a recruitment agency but based on site at the client's location. Effectively I'd be working for the client but getting paid by the agency. I got a phone call and did and did an impromptu interview with the agency, sold myself and my skills relevant to the position very well however I heard on Monday that they're not putting me forward for the position due to me being unemployed... Can they do this? Is this legal? What do they expect during a pandemic?

As you can imagine I'm very disappointed not only for myself but to think that people who have lost their jobs are still being overlooked for people who haven't

Note that employers are always cagey about giving feedback to unsuccessful candidates (in case it bites them), so you might be being fobbed off with a generic response. Having worked in HR, I would have loved to provide better feedback and even coaching to unsuccessful candidates, but couldn't. There might be a bunch of reasons someone else got picked for this role ... salary, fit with company culture, an innocent response you gave which raised a question mark with the interviewer. You could either follow up with them (by phone, so they have to think on their feet) and say "does this mean you can't place me with anyone?" - highly unlikely since they are chasing commission, or just write that one off, go to a competitor agency in the knowledge that you have a stong CV and are employable. Best of luck ... all you need is one lead to get a lucky break

Jim2007

Dublin Lad2021 wrote: »

That's true and my thinking however you're not allowed discriminate against fixed term employees or part time employees for example yet they're not one of the 9 protected grounds either hence why question here

The agency are simply acting on the client's wishes, they are the filter, it's what the client pays for.


I don't know if it is legal or not. But the process is all about discrimination, nobody ever employed someone they did not like, that is how it is. Would you prefer that they carried you along to the last round before they kicked you out and waste your time?

Dublin Lad2021

Dav010 wrote: »

What you are referring to there is employment law, but you are not an employee yet. The employer cannot discriminate against you on one of the nine grounds when considering you as an applicant, but employment status is not one of them.

Discrimination is not illegal, unless it is one of the designated grounds.

Okay cool that answers my question, thank you

_Brian

Dublin Lad2021 wrote: »

Hi,

I work in an industry that's been affected pretty bad by the Pandemic, I've been applying for everything I can every single week however last week I applied for a role that would be working for a recruitment agency but based on site at the client's location. Effectively I'd be working for the client but getting paid by the agency. I got a phone call and did and did an impromptu interview with the agency, sold myself and my skills relevant to the position very well however I heard on Monday that they're not putting me forward for the position due to me being unemployed... Can they do this? Is this legal? What do they expect during a pandemic?

As you can imagine I'm very disappointed not only for myself but to think that people who have lost their jobs are still being overlooked for people who haven't

Its hard but they've done nothing wrong.. Chin up and keep trying, but the old "its easier to get a job when you're in a job" is a rel thing.

Dublin Lad2021

Dav010 wrote: »

What you are referring to there is employment law, but you are not an employee yet. The employer cannot discriminate against you on one of the nine grounds when considering you as an applicant, but employment status is not one of them.

Discrimination is not illegal, unless it is one of the designated grounds.

Okay cool that answers my question, thank you

Strumms

_Brian wrote: »

Its hard but they've done nothing wrong.. Chin up and keep trying, but the old "its easier to get a job when you're in a job" is a rel thing.

It’s something my parents always informed me of... but that said... people take career breaks where they might be applying for a new job after six months where they rested a bit, travelled a bit, spent time with family, starting going to the gym, did a bit of a course online or at night in a college....and god forbid... enjoyed life

I’d almost rather take on that kind of well rounded, relaxed and ‘ready to go’ candidate over maybe somebody who might be a little jaded, stressed and tired trying to escape a less then healthy work environment..

Mrs OBumble

Dublin Lad2021 wrote: »

Okay cool that answers my question, thank you

I think - but cannot quote the reference - there's an employment law which says that the selection criteria have to be related to ability to do the job.

So, for example, it's ok to not hire you 'cos you're fat (f being attractive and so good at sales is needed for the job - but it's not ok to not hire you 'cos you're currently job-free ('cos that's not related to the ability to do the job). Similarly it's not OK to say "no" because you live too far away from the workplace.

This isn't an anti-discrimination provision, it's part of employment law. So a lot harder and more expensive to make a claim about, and there can be lots of legal subtleties around it.


TBH, you're better to just let shyte like this go, and focus on getting a job (in the current climate, any job). Taking legal cases won't make you attractive to employers, and will take a lot of energy / time / money.

I've had a agency refuse to put me forward for a job because my degree is less than a 2.1. It's bollox because I've a lower degree, and 10+ years of post-degree experience in directly related fields. But that's the filter they use. I thought it was helpful that they told me, 'cos now there are certain companies that I don't bother applying for - it's a waste of my energy and their time.

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

It’s something my parents always informed me of... but that said... people take career breaks where they might be applying for a new job after six months where they rested a bit, travelled a bit, spent time with family, starting going to the gym, did a bit of a course online or at night in a college....and god forbid... enjoyed life

I’d almost rather take on that kind of well rounded, relaxed and ‘ready to go’ candidate over maybe somebody who might be a little jaded, stressed and tired trying to escape a less then healthy work environment..

The jaded, stressed and tired jobber trying to escape the less than healthy work environment very often ends up burnt out, jacking in said job or getting managed out and instead of admitting it 6 months later when they're back looking for work, they try dressing it up as a 'career break'.

Don't do that. It doesn't help.

I'd rather give the job to someone who tells me they're out of work and need it, than someone trying to bs their way past something that experienced hiring managers will want to see past, assuming you get as far as a discussion or formal interview with them.

Honest answers and a good fit with my requirements, I'll give you a fair shot at it and help you do well where I can. I think most hiring managers these days are so jaded with the dishonesty of applicants that anyone just being honest and upfront is more likely to impress them than not.

Nothing annoys me more in the recruitment process than people lying on their CV's, exaggerating how much experience they have or trying to bluff their way past a fair question for which there's an honest answer. If you can't be direct, open and honest when asking for the job, how the hell could I trust you to be so when there's a problem brewing down the line that I need to know about?

Strumms

JayZeus wrote: »

The jaded, stressed and tired jobber trying to escape the less than healthy work environment very often ends up burnt out, jacking in said job or getting managed out and instead of admitting it 6 months later when they're back looking for work, they try dressing it up as a 'career break'.

Don't do that. It doesn't help.

I'd rather give the job to someone who tells me they're out of work and need it, than someone trying to bs their way past something that experienced hiring managers will want to see past, assuming you get as far as a discussion or formal interview with them.

Honest answers and a good fit with my requirements, I'll give you a fair shot at it and help you do well where I can. I think most hiring managers these days are so jaded with the dishonesty of applicants that anyone just being honest and upfront is more likely to impress them than not.

Nothing annoys me more in the recruitment process than people lying on their CV's, exaggerating how much experience they have or trying to bluff their way past a fair question for which there's an honest answer. If you can't be direct, open and honest when asking for the job, how the hell could I trust you to be so when there's a problem brewing down the line that I need to know about?

That’s YOU... unfortunately not all employers are on the level..

Too many will say... “shît, they go down with stress here, how likely am I to be sued ? how likely will I need to spend X thousands on temp cover...? they’ll plan for the worst. Might only be 0.00001% chance, but still.

Better for employer and employee to be honest. There's nothing to be gained past the short term by hiding information that will let the right employer act the right way when an employee needs their help.

The whole thing of employers being reluctant to hire someone who was burnt out is really overblown. As an applicant, it shouldn't be framed as being burnt out. It should be "I left my previous position because of XYZ". The XYZ should be the things that led to your burnout which could be, unreasonable workload, unrealistic targets, lack of training/opportunity or whatever and so on. Be prepared for the question, then answer it honestly.

Instead of "Ah, sure I was totally bollixed working all the hours I was awake trying to hit my sales target and because of this, that and the other I never got any commission even though I was there for two years and the manager just blamed me for everything...Always sending me messages and emails out of hours and making snide comments in the canteen or at meetings. I hated him, the prick, couldn't wait to see the back of the place. I needed to decompress and just enjoy life a bit, focus on myself and spend some time getting back to myself, you know? I did a night class and went on holidays, that was really nice and all, but I think it's time now to get back to work"

I want to hear:

"As someone who performs very well in a sales organisation with good structure and well defined targets to guide me, the constant setting of unrealistic targets and absence of practical supports to enable me perform against plan was a source of much frustration. I enjoyed the work for the most part, the relationship with my colleagues across the business and with our customers, and performed well under the circumstances, but without the support required from my manager to resolve the issue with XYZ, there was no more I could do as an individual contributor to turn things around. It was quite unfortunate really, as I invest heavily of myself in being successful in a role such as this, but as is often the case with sales, sometimes a solution just can't be found. I decided it was time to make that decision and move on. I've been looking for a good fit for a while, and to be honest, spent a little time deciding if I really want to stay in sales. The reality is, I really enjoy the work, the pace and the feeling of satisfaction I get out of matching a customers real NEED with a great solution/product/service, and I believe that's something I'll experience often working with you/your team/this company etc."

That's with a sales focus, but the same things is true whether you're a mechanic, a coach driver, a helpdesk tech or a mid-level manager. Leave the gap. Let them ask if they care and take that as an opportunity to give some more insight into who you are as an individual so they can assess as best they can whether you're the right person for the role, or a waste of their time and energy.

LegacyUser

JayZeus wrote: »

Better for employer and employee to be honest. There's nothing to be gained past the short term by hiding information that will let the right employer act the right way when an employee needs their help.

The whole thing of employers being reluctant to hire someone who was burnt out is really overblown. As an applicant, it shouldn't be framed as being burnt out. It should be "I left my previous position because of XYZ". The XYZ should be the things that led to your burnout which could be, unreasonable workload, unrealistic targets, lack of training/opportunity or whatever and so on. Be prepared for the question, then answer it honestly.

Instead of "Ah, sure I was totally bollixed working all the hours I was awake trying to hit my sales target and because of this, that and the other I never got any commission even though I was there for two years and the manager just blamed me for everything...Always sending me messages and emails out of hours and making snide comments in the canteen or at meetings. I hated him, the prick, couldn't wait to see the back of the place. I needed to decompress and just enjoy life a bit, focus on myself and spend some time getting back to myself, you know? I did a night class and went on holidays, that was really nice and all, but I think it's time now to get back to work"

I want to hear:

"As someone who performs very well in a sales organisation with good structure and well defined targets to guide me, the constant setting of unrealistic targets and absence of practical supports to enable me perform against plan was a source of much frustration. I enjoyed the work for the most part, the relationship with my colleagues across the business and with our customers, and performed well under the circumstances, but without the support required from my manager to resolve the issue with XYZ, there was no more I could do as an individual contributor to turn things around. It was quite unfortunate really, as I invest heavily of myself in being successful in a role such as this, but as is often the case with sales, sometimes a solution just can't be found. I decided it was time to make that decision and move on. I've been looking for a good fit for a while, and to be honest, spent a little time deciding if I really want to stay in sales. The reality is, I really enjoy the work, the pace and the feeling of satisfaction I get out of matching a customers real NEED with a great solution/product/service, and I believe that's something I'll experience often working with you/your team/this company etc."

That's with a sales focus, but the same things is true whether you're a mechanic, a coach driver, a helpdesk tech or a mid-level manager. Leave the gap. Let them ask if they care and take that as an opportunity to give some more insight into who you are as an individual so they can assess as best they can whether you're the right person for the role, or a waste of their time and energy.

Yeah, better lie.

dennyk

Strumms wrote: »

It’s something my parents always informed me of... but that said... people take career breaks where they might be applying for a new job after six months where they rested a bit, travelled a bit, spent time with family, starting going to the gym, did a bit of a course online or at night in a college....and god forbid... enjoyed life

I’d almost rather take on that kind of well rounded, relaxed and ‘ready to go’ candidate over maybe somebody who might be a little jaded, stressed and tired trying to escape a less then healthy work environment..

Trouble is, such voluntary breaks indicate that a candidate has a tendency to put their own personal life and needs before those of their employer, and there are some unreasonable employers who find such an attitude completely unacceptable. Whether you'd want to work for such an employer is another question as well, though, so in some cases you might have dodged a bullet thanks to their rejection.

OMM 0000

Can I ask, how did you word the fact that you're unemployed?

Did you try to spin it into a positive that you've been doing personal development, did x, y x training courses, etc.?

Generally, when there are a lot of applicants, employers are trying to find reasons to disqualify you, so you need to spin everything into a positive. That includes what are your weak points, what were some challenges you faced in your previous role, have you ever worked with difficult colleagues, etc.

Strumms

dennyk wrote: »

Trouble is, such voluntary breaks indicate that a candidate has a tendency to put their own personal life and needs before those of their employer, and there are some unreasonable employers who find such an attitude completely unacceptable. Whether you'd want to work for such an employer is another question as well, though, so in some cases you might have dodged a bullet thanks to their rejection.

I always put my personal life / family and needs before any employer now, I didn’t always, you work to live, not live to work... I put into a job the hours and effort I agree on accepting the job... if occasionally they need a bit of flexibility or ‘extra’... sure, they ASK but occasionally, if the odd time I’d like it to be and expect it to be reciprocated... I’m expecting it is, or it’s goodbye.

Not a two way street ? I’m done.