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Ryanair sending German cheques for refunds

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  • 26-01-2021 1:48pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 355 ✭✭


    Hi everybody.

    So I don't know where to start.

    I bought a Holiday from LoveHolidays when the government had green lit Spain for travel.

    The flights were booked through LoveHolidays with Ryanair and they also sent a voucher to the hotel for payment for our stay.

    Both Ryanair and the Hotel cancelled the bookings as Ryanair cancelled the flight, and the hotel did not open for summer season anyway.

    The holiday came to just over 1000 euros, of which LoveHolidays have refunded the hotel portion of just over 700 euros, leaving ryanair with 300 euros of mine.

    Ryanair on the other hand insisted they refund via a German cheque.

    The issue I have is that I can not cash a German cheque without paying the special delivery fee to send it to Germany, along with processing by the bank Ryanair have used in Germany, which is around 150 euros - have checked with PTSB and Bank of Ireland and both say this is the normal practice as Irish banks do not have access to the German clearing systems.

    I put in a request with Ryanair to refund directly to my bank and provided banking details and explained the situation about two months ago, that the charges frustrate the refund process. the refund is 298 euros and the fees are around 150 euros, so over half the refund would be lost.

    Where do I go from here?

    Would Small Claims Court be the way to go, but as Ryanair have issued a "refund" I am not sure.

    I am looking for your opinions, and I am aware that any advice given here can not be taken as legal advice.

    Thank you,

    ExoPolitic.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 22,302 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Jaysus. You hear about a legal but perfectly ‘legal’ process and think ‘WTF?!?’

    Then you think ‘ah. Ryanair. Makes sense now...’

    Wonder what German customers have been issued...


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭Valhallapt


    I would think this is with LoveHolidays to resolve, Ryanair were probably paid via a German Bank account from LoveHolidays, so thats how they need to refund it, If you paid LoveHolidays then it is their responsibility to organise a refund. If you paid Ryanair directly then its Ryanair's responsibility


  • Registered Users Posts: 355 ✭✭ExoPolitic


    Valhallapt wrote: »
    I would think this is with LoveHolidays to resolve, Ryanair were probably paid via a German Bank account from LoveHolidays, so thats how they need to refund it, If you paid LoveHolidays then it is their responsibility to organise a refund. If you paid Ryanair directly then its Ryanair's responsibility

    It seems from what I hear from other peoples stories, that this is the standard practice for Ryanair to do, which ever company you booked through, could be an Irish travel agent with an Irish bank and they still refund through a German bank.


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,379 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Also, you should normally be paid back by the same means that you paid. So if you paid by credit card, it should go back to your credit card.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,116 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    In recent years BOI lodged and cleared a US$ and a GB£ into my Mum's current account with no penalty. Granted they both took longer to clear but it was done without any fee or a loss to her.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,486 ✭✭✭Masala


    Why are they giving you a cheque???? You paid by CC - so this should be the means of refund.

    Return the cheque and give them your Bank Details and request them to pay direct to your bank....


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,596 ✭✭✭amber2


    Maybe post this issue on the Bank of Ireland section should not be a charge for euro drawn on a euro country. Same as sending a euro SEPA to a participating country.

    Your paying enough fees already although I do agree if you paid by card then you should be refunded by card for clarity on the company’s own end.


  • Posts: 596 [Deleted User]


    Masala wrote: »
    Why are they giving you a cheque???? You paid by CC - so this should be the means of refund.

    Return the cheque and give them your Bank Details and request them to pay direct to your bank....

    Ah, but they didn’t pay Ryanair by CC.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭whippet


    I’d say the OP didn’t pay Ryanair ... it would have been Loveholidays who paid Ryanair.

    This means that Ryanair would have no means to refund to the OPs credit card. They have issued a cheque - which could well be a cheque from the jurisdiction in which they were originally paid for the flights.

    In reality the OPs claim is with Loveholiday ... in an ideal world without covid and regular regulators insisting on the norm the OP would have received a full refund from the agent ... but as we all know things are different and these agents just do not have the cash flow to refund everyone


  • Registered Users Posts: 355 ✭✭ExoPolitic


    Still stuck with a cheque I can't cash :( have emailed time and time again to Ryanair and still no answer months on. Trying a different approach now.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭whippet


    ExoPolitic wrote: »
    Still stuck with a cheque I can't cash :( have emailed time and time again to Ryanair and still no answer months on. Trying a different approach now.

    did you pay Ryanair with a Credit Card or did you pay Loveholidays?


  • Registered Users Posts: 622 ✭✭✭poppers


    ExoPolitic wrote: »
    Still stuck with a cheque I can't cash :( have emailed time and time again to Ryanair and still no answer months on. Trying a different approach now.

    cant see why this is a ryanair issue.
    you should get all your money back from loveholidays unless you booked the flights yourself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,042 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    This has been going on for the last six months or so. Liveline covered it well before Christmas.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭Valhallapt


    ExoPolitic wrote: »
    Still stuck with a cheque I can't cash :( have emailed time and time again to Ryanair and still no answer months on. Trying a different approach now.

    What do loveholiday have to say about it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭whippet


    Ryanair have always put themselves out as a point-to-point airline. They don't deal with agents or site scraper websites .... and this is part of it really. Agents like Loveholidays use temp credit card numbers to book flights for people on the Ryanair site and as such Ryanair can't refund a card that no longer exists - so they are refunding via cheque in the jurisdiction which the transaction was placed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 355 ✭✭ExoPolitic


    whippet wrote: »
    Ryanair have always put themselves out as a point-to-point airline. They don't deal with agents or site scraper websites .... and this is part of it really. Agents like Loveholidays use temp credit card numbers to book flights for people on the Ryanair site and as such Ryanair can't refund a card that no longer exists - so they are refunding via cheque in the jurisdiction which the transaction was placed.

    But Ryanair are Irish, have an Irish business address and the recipient of the cheque also lives in Ireland. Love Holidays are also based in the UK.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭KildareP


    ExoPolitic wrote: »
    But Ryanair are Irish, have an Irish business address and the recipient of the cheque also lives in Ireland. Love Holidays are also based in the UK.
    Love Holidays Irish division (via loveholidays.ie) are registered in Sweden.


    The difficulty is that it appears the OP booked and paid for everything as a package from Love Holidays, Love Holidays made the subsequent arrangements between the hotel and Ryanair.
    As a result they have absolutely no contract with Ryanair whatsoever but Ryanair have chosen to refund this way even when knowingly booked through a travel agent:
    https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/travel/ryanair-customers-may-face-charges-of-up-to-100-to-cash-refund-cheques-1.4421303


    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ryanair-issues-compensation-cheques-from-a-german-bank-39801727.html




    I'm really dumbfounded as to why some businesses are taking this approach at the moment. I know cashflow is difficult but it's temporary. When everything opens back up, these same businesses are all going to be desperate for people to use them again.
    Making things awkward and difficult now is going to come back and bite them when they go to rebuild their businesses but they've alienated huge numbers of their target market. Although with Ryanair, I suspect they know they're just that bit cheaper enough compared to competitors that people will easily forget.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    KildareP wrote: »
    Love Holidays Irish division (via loveholidays.ie) are registered in Sweden.


    The difficulty is that it appears the OP booked and paid for everything as a package from Love Holidays, Love Holidays made the subsequent arrangements between the hotel and Ryanair.
    As a result they have absolutely no contract with Ryanair whatsoever but Ryanair have chosen to refund this way even when knowingly booked through a travel agent:
    https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/travel/ryanair-customers-may-face-charges-of-up-to-100-to-cash-refund-cheques-1.4421303


    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ryanair-issues-compensation-cheques-from-a-german-bank-39801727.html




    I'm really dumbfounded as to why some businesses are taking this approach at the moment. I know cashflow is difficult but it's temporary. When everything opens back up, these same businesses are all going to be desperate for people to use them again.
    Making things awkward and difficult now is going to come back and bite them when they go to rebuild their businesses but they've alienated huge numbers of their target market. Although with Ryanair, I suspect they know they're just that bit cheaper enough compared to competitors that people will easily forget.


    Ryanair HATE travel agents


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭Valhallapt


    Ryanair HATE travel agents

    They have been pretty consistent on this. Travel agents have been ignoring the terms and conditions of the sale and its consumers who get caught between.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    I don't fly Ryanair unless it is the most convenient airport - like they used to fly to Lubeck and say it was Hamburg. Jokes on you Ryanair I love Lubeck. But the experience is sub par.

    But if I remember correctly they explicitly forbid travel agents and they also explicitly refuse any responsibility for connections.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭whippet


    the crux of this matter is that Ryanair don't use agents - they are direct sellers. The OP's gripe is with who they paid money to.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,826 ✭✭✭NewbridgeIR


    In recent years BOI lodged and cleared a US$ and a GB£ into my Mum's current account with no penalty. Granted they both took longer to clear but it was done without any fee or a loss to her.

    GBP and US cheques attract hardly any fees when lodging
    Non-domestic euro cheques are a different beast and have always been costly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 355 ✭✭ExoPolitic


    GBP and US cheques attract hardly any fees when lodging
    Non-domestic euro cheques are a different beast and have always been costly.

    And this is my gripe. they know full well this is the case at Ryanair, and yet they still chose to do it.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Ryanair will only honour bookings made directly through their website. Any bookings made elsewhere are not their responsibility.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,984 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    ExoPolitic wrote: »
    And this is my gripe. they know full well this is the case at Ryanair, and yet they still chose to do it.

    You broke Ryanair's T&Cs by using a 3rd party to book the tickets yet you complain when Ryanair don't follow the rules, refunds should be given to the person who paid for the tickets using the method they paid with, and issue you a refund instead.

    The company you should be complaining about is the one you booked and paid your money to that's not fulfilling their requirements to refund you not Ryanair.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Could you open up an N26 account, they are German afaik and pay the cheque into there?


    Edit Forget that unless you can get Ryanair to issue it electronicly to a German bank, looks like they only work online


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,994 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    None of the new banks (Revolut, N26, etc) accept cheques.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭ArthurG


    Who uses travel agents these days? All you’re doing is adding a markup to your costs which goes to them, and as the OP has discovered, they are now caught between them and a 3rd party the agency used. Book it yourself, easier and cheaper in the long run.


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