Level 5 Restrictions vis-a-vis Northern Ireland Residents

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My question is, do Gardai have the power/right to tell someone who is resident and a citizen of NI visiting ROI for a daytrip to go home under threat of arrest or fining?

The law in this country is the law, it doesn't matter where someone is from.
If someone from NI refuses to comply with gardai then they are committing an offence.

Gatling

bubblypop wrote: »

The law in this country is the law, it doesn't matter where someone is from.
If someone from NI refuses to comply with gardai then they are committing an offence.

During the first lock down the guards publicly stated they couldn't fine or stop people from the North coming here , during lock down there has been numerous businesses running shopping trips from the North to Dublin and back again .

Andre Round Glue

Andre Round Glue wrote: »

There is no clarity. Right now, Gardai are policing on whims. Can anyone provide clarity? Garda HQ are stone-walling me, hence I'm asking here.

What do you need clarity on exactly?

Andre Round Glue

Andre Round Glue wrote: »

The question is laid out in my OP.

Gardai enforce the law in this country.
It does not matter where you are from, if you are in this country, you are subject to the law here.

Well you can contend it all you want but all laws in this country apply to everyone in it, residents or tourists.

Lenar3556

The situation with regard to COVID-19 remains exceptionally serious, and I am firmly of the view that everyone, visitors or otherwise have a duty to protect the most vulnerable and act in a way that does not spread infection and ultimately gets us out of this mess. It is clear that the avoidance of non-essential travel is of particular importance in upholding the above.

To answer your question on the legal basis of any enforcement action; there are some limitations in the regulations made under the 1947 health act in situations where an individual is not ordinarily resident within the state, nor is temporarily resident - for example staying in a hotel. I don’t believe such a person would constitute an ‘applicable person’ in the context of the regulations either.

The effect is that the question of 5km travel restrictions from a person’s residence do not apply to ‘day-trippers’ who have no residence whatsoever within the Republic of Ireland.

It should be noted however that the Garda may have recourse to other provisions or separate legislation where a visitors actions give rise to concern. Visitors from NI should not feel they have a free pass to act as they please.

Andre Round Glue

Andre Round Glue wrote: »

You've brought nothing of value to this thread.

I answered your question.

Allinall

Andre Round Glue wrote: »

If what you say is true, then my conclusion was indeed correct. It is the case that some Gardai are acting lawlessly. This is very serious, because they must always act according to the law. I have personal experience of this. I won't go into it, but I was physically threatened by a Garda officer; he was very rude and extremely aggressive, and such actions can only undermine their regard by the public and visitors alike. We can't have Gardai policing on personal whims or on orders given from superiors which contradict the law. But this is Ireland. :-/

How did he physically threaten you?

Caranica

Why on earth would a person from another jurisdiction be entering this country on a day trip during a level 5 lockdown, especially when their own country is also on lockdown? The Gardai have the right to ask the question.

Dublinensis

Contrary to some earlier assertions in the thread, the relevant regulations restricting people's movements are drafted in such a way as to apply only to persons resident in the State and so do not apply to NI residents.

However, the Gardaí have power to issue directions to any person they reasonably suspect to be in breach of the regulations, and it is an offence (for which you may be arrested) not to comply with such a direction. So if a guard wrongly but reasonably suspects you to be a ROI resident when you are in fact a NI resident, I'm afraid you'll have to revise your plans for the day. But as long as you do what they say, you should be able to avoid any criminal liability.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2020/act/1/section/10/enacted/en/html

There is nothing to stop a garda from arresting you should you be committing an offence under the act.
I would imagine that should NI residents come into the south, without an essential reason, that they will find themselves the target of gardai trying to police restrictions.

If you have a complaint about the behaviour of a member of AGS, you can make it to GSOC, the Garda ombudsman

Eggs For Dinner

Andre Round Glue wrote: »

If I didn't go straight home, he would forcibly remove me from the car and arrest me.

I really feel sorry for our Gardai. I can see a checkpoint from my house and they are pulling long shifts in terrible weather trying to persuade grown adults to do what is their basic civil duty

Marcusm

bubblypop wrote: »

Well you can contend it all you want but all laws in this country apply to everyone in it, residents or tourists.

Tourists don't have a residence int he country and the rules, in the main, are predicated on remaining at your home which in their case does not exist.

Lenar3556

Marcusm wrote: »

Tourists don't have a residence int he country and the rules, in the main, are predicated on remaining at your home which in their case does not exist.

Indeed, but I think we can all see this position being at odds with the exceptional (and in my view wholly necessary) ask of the residents of the republic.

Spanish Eyes

PSNI checkpoints could be near border crossings asking NI travellers where their homes are. If more than ten miles away then unless travel to ROI is essential back you go.

I know that doesn’t answer op question , just thinking out loud.

Marcusm

Marcusm wrote: »

Tourists don't have a residence int he country and the rules, in the main, are predicated on remaining at your home which in their case does not exist.

The legislation includes tourists and their temporary residences.

Andre Round Glue

Andre Round Glue wrote: »

You've been repeatedly wrong on this thread, issuing ignorant opinions as if they were facts. Day-trippers do not have temporary residences.
Go to any border town supermarket in NI and you will see several ROI cars in the carpark. I don't have a problem with that, but they are coming over to do shopping, and more power to them!

I have not been wrong and I have linked to the legislation, so you can read it for yourself. The tourists and their temporary residences are provided for in the act. That does not include NI residents and was an answer to a different poster. Maybe read the thread properly?

I am from a border town myself I don't know what that has to do with anything?

I also directed you to gsoc, should you have a complaint against a member.

Lenar3556

Andre Round Glue wrote: »

I think people on both sides of the border need to rise up and make this unworkable by exploiting the legislation in whatever way possible. This ends when enough people say enough is enough and we demand (and take) our freedom back.

Did you express this sentiment to the Garda who stopped you?
It would appear that you forgot to explain to him about natural law and inalienable rights under the constitution? I would hazard a guess you didn’t even ask him if he was on his oath. Amateurs..........

Eggs For Dinner

Lenar3556 wrote: »

Did you express this sentiment to the Garda who stopped you?
It would appear that you forgot to explain to him about natural law and inalienable rights under the constitution? I would hazard a guess you didn’t even ask him if he was on his oath. Amateurs..........

Or wearing his hat....By God they have to put up with some hardship carrying out their duty. as mandated by the people we freely elect to make such decisions on our behalf.

Andre Round Glue

Andre Round Glue wrote: »

Are you stupid? Day-trippers often (and I would say usually) do NOT have temporary residences in the free state. You're starting to piss me off now, so butt out of this thread.

Clearly you are, and cannot read. I never said day trippers have residences in the state.
I said tourists do, which does not included daytrippers, obviously and I happened to be answering a different poster to you.

Edit, just saw your last post.
Sorry I entertained you

Notmything

Andre Round Glue wrote: »

Are you stupid? Day-trippers often (and I would say usually) do NOT have temporary residences in the free state. You're starting to piss me off now, so butt out of this thread.

"Free state" !!! What year are you from?

Eggs For Dinner

Andre Round Glue wrote: »

. Me-Hole Martin has now come out saying this lockdown will last for 6 months of this new year - that's half of 2021 if you didn't realise.

When the revolution comes, I think we have our new Minister for Finance