Toyota Ireland come up with the goods

TrailerBob

We bought a 2016 Rav4 Diesel back in July from a main dealer, Full service history at that garage, bought there new, and owned in house by a family member of their lead tech.. 12 month Toyota Plus warranty came with the deal. Fast forward 3 months, and a couple of warning lights on the dash, one for oil pressure and a slight sluggish feeling to the car. Main dealer replaces a sensor, but wants the car back after 3000km for an oil consumption test. Level was alarmingly low, but yet the car is nowhere near its service interval.

Brought the car back in the day they opened after Christmas and it had used 3 litres of oil in just under 3000km. You don't need a degree in engineering to know that is really not good. I said to myself this will go higher than the dealer, and it surely did. Toyota Ireland wanted the engine, very alarmed by the whole thing. A couple of weeks of to and fro, and a few questions about driving style, type of use etc.. and today we get a call to say they have decided to put a brand new engine into the car. Messge was "major internal malfunction"... Result. Should have it back in a couple of weeks ,as they don't have an engine sitting ready in Ireland, but due to have it late next week.

Hats off to Toyota for stepping up and sorting it, and very good service from the main dealer too who kept good contact with us and have had a car with us for the duration too.

colm_mcm

The only way to get a replacement engine out of BMW is to buy a Toyota


To be fair, toyotas used car warranty is probably the best one around. Has been for decades.
Probably a well known issue.

TrailerBob

I'm sure it rang a bell in head office, but I haven't found much online about it. Very pleased with it, considering the car is now 5 years old and has 140,000km up.

elperello

I'm sure you have got all the others on here with that engine worrying now

Good result for you though. If you had bought privately you'd be in trouble.

Lucky for the previous owner too that they sold when they did.

TrailerBob

Well its a BMW derived unit, so they might poo their pants too.. except they've enough to be putting up with

Casati

TrailerBob wrote: »

Well its a BMW derived unit, so they might poo their pants too.. except they've enough to be putting up with

Is it similar to engine in the 318D? Does it suffer from timing chain stretch also?

Fair play to the dealer sorting it out, manufacturers warranty is worth a lot in fairness

TrailerBob

Its the N47 used as a base I believe, but Toyota use their own flywheel, battery tech and associated works. I have not heard much about trouble with them, and there is a lot of them out there. I think the timing chain issues on the BMW unit was sorted a good while before 2016.

My feeling is that this was a somewhat isolated problem

TrailerBob

Just a little update for those who have an interest. Been talking with the dealer and the car is due back to us at the end of the week. Slight delay caused by them not being happy with the DPF values on the regen cycle upon test driving the car (original DPF). So they've decided to just replace the unit while they have the car, save us coming back in a few weeks, or heaven forbid a few months when the warranty is up.

I feel they have been incredibly thorough and have prioritised getting it back to us absolutely right. It has taken a bit longer than anticipated, but shipping delays and the DPF have added some time. All in all, its one of the highest value warranty jobs they have ever taken on, with possible end figure crossing €20k. I'll know Friday. I also know where I'll be going first when I'm buying again.

Nonoperational

That is amazing in fairness on an engine with 140k on it.

colm_mcm

It’s also a shocking bill if you were paying for it.

dastardly00

It's interesting to hear good stories like this. Keep us updated when you get the car back

Cee-Jay-Cee

Great result. You should get at least ten years motoring from it!!

Casati

colm_mcm wrote: »

It’s also a shocking bill if you were paying for it.

Id be fairly worried if I had a 2016 Rav 4 out of warranty

CoBo55

TrailerBob wrote: »

Just a little update for those who have an interest. Been talking with the dealer and the car is due back to us at the end of the week. Slight delay caused by them not being happy with the DPF values on the regen cycle upon test driving the car (original DPF). So they've decided to just replace the unit while they have the car, save us coming back in a few weeks, or heaven forbid a few months when the warranty is up.

I feel they have been incredibly thorough and have prioritised getting it back to us absolutely right. It has taken a bit longer than anticipated, but shipping delays and the DPF have added some time. All in all, its one of the highest value warranty jobs they have ever taken on, with possible end figure crossing €20k. I'll know Friday. I also know where I'll be going first when I'm buying again.

Makes sense to change the dpf, if the engine was burning that much oil the dpf is bound to be affected.

Cookie_Monster

Good result though surprised they put a new engine in instead of used one.

We covered a 9 year old lancer to get a replacement engine under mitsi's 10 year warranty recently 😱

notabogsnotion

Really good service there.

TrailerBob

Casati wrote: »

Id be fairly worried if I had a 2016 Rav 4 out of warranty

I wouldn't.. I've done a good bit of looking around, and its fairly unheard of. If there was a widespread issue it would be well documented. I was just unlucky, and then very lucky at the same time

TrailerBob

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Good result though surprised they put a new engine in instead of used one.

We covered a 9 year old lancer to get a replacement engine under mitsi's 10 year warranty recently ��

That's how good a Toyota Plus used warranty is... no way would I have been comfortable with a used engine going in. They couldn't stand over it. I know it happens in independent garages a good bit. My friend is a mechanic and put a salvaged engine into a Hyundai i40 last week, but that's because it hadn't been serviced in 6 years :rolleyes:

As soon as I heard Toyota Ireland were getting involved, I knew it was something out of the ordinary

johndaman66

Hats off to Toyota Ireland on this one. Great to hear a story with such a positive outcome on the forum. €20k seems nuts all the same though. Of the 51 odd 2017 RAV4's on Donedeal presently 7 of them are priced less than €20k.

StonedRaider

TrailerBob wrote: »

That's how good a Toyota Plus used warranty is... no way would I have been comfortable with a used engine going in. They couldn't stand over it. I know it happens in independent garages a good bit. My friend is a mechanic and put a salvaged engine into a Hyundai i40 last week, but that's because it hadn't been serviced in 6 years :rolleyes:

As soon as I heard Toyota Ireland were getting involved, I knew it was something out of the ordinary

Possible to pm the name of the dealer? I have relatives shopping for a 2019 Rav4

TrailerBob

johndaman66 wrote: »

Hats off to Toyota Ireland on this one. Great to hear a story with such a positive outcome on the forum. €20k seems nuts all the same though. Of the 51 odd 2017 RAV4's on Donedeal presently 7 of them are priced less than €20k.

It is completely nuts, more than the current value of the vehicle. Thats also1 accounting for full main dealer retail prices for parts. Everybody wins really. We get the car rebuilt ro new, the dealer gets a nice payday from Toyota Ireland, and some technician has a jolly old time pulling the old engine apart to investigate

ml100

I guess that's the reason why they aren't as expensive as some of the similar alternatives, the reputation of those bmw engines is not good and is probably hurting resale values, far play Toyota for covering the cost, 20k is crazy though.

walshtipp

In fairness Toyota does really care about their customers. See how they do major voluntary recalls for even small issues. They want their cars to live up to their reputation.

corsav6

I'd imagine they would just do the clutch and flywheel while it's all easy access.
That's some service in fairness, fair play to Toyota.

Dirty Nails

TrailerBob wrote: »

It is completely nuts, more than the current value of the vehicle. Thats also1 accounting for full main dealer retail prices for parts. Everybody wins really. We get the car rebuilt ro new, the dealer gets a nice payday from Toyota Ireland, and some technician has a jolly old time pulling the old engine apart to investigate

Great that you got your car repaired under goodwill from Toyota & that your happy with the result. The dealer should have said €50k though,it would have been a lot better story
Nearer to reality though ,Toyota supplied engine,probably €5k.Keeps their good name with a satisfied customer.Dealer supplied labour @ 80% of his retail rate for the amount of time Toyota says it should take to do it. That's usually about 80% of actual time. He doesn't actually see any money directly,it's likely deducted from his parts account. I'd be surprised if the dealer saw any more than 12 hours labour in it. No big paydays for anyone with warranty.

TrailerBob

Dirty Nails wrote: »

Great that you got your car repaired under goodwill from Toyota & that your happy with the result. The dealer should have said €50k though,it would have been a lot better story
Nearer to reality though ,Toyota supplied engine,probably €5k.Keeps their good name with a satisfied customer.Dealer supplied labour @ 80% of his retail rate for the amount of time Toyota says it should take to do it. That's usually about 80% of actual time. He doesn't actually see any money directly,it's likely deducted from his parts account. I'd be surprised if the dealer saw any more than 12 hours labour in it. No big paydays for anyone with warranty.

That was my point about retail cost, it would cost me that to get the equivalent work done if I was paying. Service manager reckons he's doing ok out of it from head office.

route66

TrailerBob wrote: »

That was my point about retail cost, it would cost me that to get the equivalent work done if I was paying. Service manager reckons he's doing ok out of it from head office.

Might be the perfect time to sell and replace with a Hybrid Rav4 ???


I'd be interested to know what the actual problem was. As mentioned above, these use BMW's infamous N47 engine - although I thought any such problems would have been sorted on a 2016 car.


And hat's off to Toyota and to you for coming on here to tell us about it !

TrailerBob

I'm pushing the dealer to give me a full report on it (I service and build old diesel engines on tractors so I have a strong interest) but the investigation was carried out by Toyota Ireland, not the dealer, so I might not get one. The N47 issues were well sorted by 2016 as I said in an earlier post, the Rav4 diesel doesn't give trouble really, certainly not of this sort. I won't be jumping ship on it and going for a hybrid just yet, I now have a brand new diesel Rav4... but I will next change.

Wishbone Ash

Just out of curiosity, how does it work with the odometer/service history/NCT etc. when a new engine is put in? Presumably they supply full documentation with it.

TrailerBob

As far as I can see, the odometer will remain unchanged, but documentation will be provided on the engine change attached to the service history. The rest of the car has done 140k so it should stay that way imo

kirving

I've heard excellent things about Toyota's warranty in the past.

A friends mother had panels resprayed on what must have been a 2005 or so Avensis after the paint peeled. It must have been over 10yo when someone on the street told her to contact the dealer about. Toyota probably now have a customer for life, and there's one less ragged Toyota on the road.

Same reason the dealer washes your car - it's good advertising to have a shiny car driving around.

Dirty Nails

TrailerBob wrote: »

That was my point about retail cost, it would cost me that to get the equivalent work done if I was paying. Service manager reckons he's doing ok out of it from head office.

Understand what your'e saying.
If you were forced to go that route,you could always have.... no,that would be just downright illegal....

colm_mcm

kirving wrote: »

.

Same reason the dealer washes your car - it's good advertising to have a shiny car driving around.

Apparently the reason they clean your car when you get a service is down to psychology. You can’t see the service work that’s been done on the car, and washing and hoovering the car makes the it feel nicer, and different, so you have a positive thing to remember from that day, you’re more likely to do it again.
It’s a courtesy thing as well I suppose.

TrailerBob

Zer are no matches eeeerrrr..

shane b

TrailerBob wrote: »

it had used 3 litres of oil in just under 3000km.

That was your saving grace on this one.
My wife bought a 2015 diesel corolla in 2019. It had the 1.4 D4D engine and 60K kms. The low oil light initially came on after about 7000 kms and we had it back and forth to the dealer a few times.
After investigation car used about 200 ml per 1000 kms. Dealer and Toyota Ireland refused to do anything as anything up to 1 litre per 1000 Km is normal.
We ended up having to trade it for a 7 seater 18 months later.

CoBo55

shane b wrote: »

That was your saving grace on this one.
My wife bought a 2015 diesel corolla in 2019. It had the 1.4 D4D engine and 60K kms. The low oil light initially came on after about 7000 kms and we had it back and forth to the dealer a few times.
After investigation car used about 200 ml per 1000 kms. Dealer and Toyota Ireland refused to do anything as anything up to 1 litre per 1000 Km is normal.
We ended up having to trade it for a 7 seater 18 months later.

A litre every 5000km? How much is a litre of oil? A tenner? Certainly cheaper than a new 7 seater.. The Toyota's I drove all burned oil, I found halving the service interval to approx 7500km helped a lot. The level stayed on the max and as soon as you approached 7500km it would drop quite rapidly, different oils made little difference I just got used to it.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

fair play , i might go Toyota next

if it was skoda they would have advised you to f*ck of and fix it yourself
then send you a bill .

TrailerBob

shane b wrote: »

That was your saving grace on this one.
My wife bought a 2015 diesel corolla in 2019. It had the 1.4 D4D engine and 60K kms. The low oil light initially came on after about 7000 kms and we had it back and forth to the dealer a few times.
After investigation car used about 200 ml per 1000 kms. Dealer and Toyota Ireland refused to do anything as anything up to 1 litre per 1000 Km is normal.
We ended up having to trade it for a 7 seater 18 months later.

I have seen that figure quoted in a few places, but I just don't see it as acceptable for an engine to use that much oil unless there's something not right. I have a 3 litre landcruiser with galactic mileage on it, and it only uses about 1.5l between services, which are 10,000 miles (16,000 km). Thats around 100ml per 1000km. I can't see it being ok for consumption to be ten times that. Either way when I initially spoke to their service tech on its first inspection and the consumption on the Rav was mentioned, he agreed fully that it was way out of line.

shane b

CoBo55 wrote: »

A litre every 5000km? How much is a litre of oil? A tenner? Certainly cheaper than a new 7 seater.. The Toyota's I drove all burned oil, I found halving the service interval to approx 7500km helped a lot..

Changing to a 7 seater was due to the arrival of twins rather than the oil issue.
This was my wifes 4th corolla and I had an Avensis diesel at the time and the 2015 was the only one to use that much oil. That why we queried it. The Avensis would be read at the low mark on the dipstick after around the 13k km mark but not low enough to bring on the warning light.
Regarding servicing at 7500 km, I dont think my wife would have got used to having a minor service every 3 months, the 15k at 6 months was enough for her.

TrailerBob

Picked up the Rav4 this afternoon. Its like a different car. Buckets of power and noticeably smoother than it was before. The explanation was suitably cryptic. Major internal mechanical failure. It got everything from the short block, DPF, turbo, manifolds, EGR.. whole new powerplant. Dealers had to push the case with Toyota but got there in the end. Massive result really and cherry on top was 2 new tyres as the service man thought they'd need 'changing in a few months anyway'

AMKC

TrailerBob wrote: »

Picked up the Rav4 this afternoon. Its like a different car. Buckets of power and noticeably smoother than it was before. The explanation was suitably cryptic. Major internal mechanical failure. It got everything from the short block, DPF, turbo, manifolds, EGR.. whole new powerplant. Dealers had to push the case with Toyota but got there in the end. Massive result really and cherry on top was 2 new tyres as the service man thought they'd need 'changing in a few months anyway'

Well done and fair play. Sounds like an almost whole new internals in the engine.

TrailerBob

Its entirely new.. top to bottom. The only existing stuff used was the rad, alternator and ancillaries like that. Zero mile engine in what is a particularly pristine 5 year old body.

ofcork

Didnt realise toyota were using a bmw engine in the rav 4 then i know the 1.6 was used in the avensis,was that emissions related.

CoBo55

ofcork wrote: »

Didnt realise toyota were using a bmw engine in the rav 4 then i know the 1.6 was used in the avensis,was that emissions related.

Yea. Toyota couldn't get their engines to meet Euro whatever emissions, they didn't know everyone else was cheating.

TrailerBob

Toyota stopped building diesels for passenger cars a long while ago. They only do the commercial diesels now for the hilux/landcruiser in house. The 2 Litre unit in the Rav4 is pretty reliable by all accounts, with the timing chain issues in the early N47 being well sorted by the time Toyota licensed the unit. I didn't get a full itemised description of the full problem but there had to be something major out of spec with maybe the turbo/egr system that then led to the internal damage. And it didn't happen overnight

colm_mcm

Had you driven other RAV4’s before you drive this one?

CoBo55

TrailerBob wrote: »

Toyota stopped building diesels for passenger cars a long while ago. They only do the commercial diesels now for the hilux/landcruiser in house. The 2 Litre unit in the Rav4 is pretty reliable by all accounts, with the timing chain issues in the early N47 being well sorted by the time Toyota licensed the unit. I didn't get a full itemised description of the full problem but there had to be something major out of spec with maybe the turbo/egr system that then led to the internal damage. And it didn't happen overnight

Probably a busted oil control ring or a cracked piston, maybe the oil spray from the con-rod to lubricate the bore got blocked and that cylinder wore excessively, could be many things.

TrailerBob

colm_mcm wrote: »

Had you driven other RAV4’s before you drive this one?

Test drove a few when shopping last July, and a work colleague has a 2014 she has had from new that I've driven a few times. Ours felt OK when I drove it, but the odd time felt sluggish low in the rev range. I don't drive it much so I thought my mind was playing tricks on me after stepping out of a torquey motor.