Online lottery to phase out credit cards.

recipio

The lotto have announced they will be phasing out credit cards after Feb this year - only debit cards will be allowed. What a royal pain in the butt. Now my accountant and bank manager can see how much I spend on the lotto not to mention 'her indoors' ! Another little freedom eroded ??:pac:.

corkie

+ They have now only made the android app

"Please note that we no longer support below Android SDK 29."

Android 10 or above?

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115944151&postcount=1654

seamus

They're getting ahead of imminent legislation that will make it illegal to gamble on credit. Bookies, both online and in-shop will not be allowed to accept credit cards as payment for bets. Only debit cards.

Afaik, the law hasn't been drafted yet, but it's coming. The UK announced they would be banning it in April.

Xterminator

im sure you can at least understand the argument that online gambling does need to be regulated?

you could easily play 10 instant win games in 10 minutes. This is no different than playing slots @ paddypower.
You may not like it buy surely you can see that allowing some one to pay up to 30% interest by borrowing on a credit card and rack up debt could lead to societal ills?

Not everyone has a gambling problem, but for the sake of the families of those who do, society does need to put some checks and balances in place.

Xterminator

Ps for your specific issue, just use revolut. Your accountant and (other) bank manager will have no visibility of your discretionary spending.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

They're getting ahead of imminent legislation that will make it illegal to gamble on credit.

As a younster I worked in the offlicence in SuperQuinn and we didnt take credit cards for the lotto.

Need a Username

Xterminator wrote: »

im sure you can at least understand the argument that online gambling does need to be regulated?

you could easily play 10 instant win games in 10 minutes. This is no different than playing slots @ paddypower.
You may not like it buy surely you can see that allowing some one to pay up to 30% interest by borrowing on a credit card and rack up debt could lead to societal ills?

Not everyone has a gambling problem, but for the sake of the families of those who do, society does need to put some checks and balances in place.

I’ve used the Lotto app a few times over the last several months and have no gambling problem and can definitely see how using a credit card there would have led to me spending much more money than I did or have.

For someone with control issues it could be worse than slot machines, etc. because you can’t see the money I your Albans.

recipio

Xterminator wrote: »

im sure you can at least understand the argument that online gambling does need to be regulated?

you could easily play 10 instant win games in 10 minutes. This is no different than playing slots @ paddypower.
You may not like it buy surely you can see that allowing some one to pay up to 30% interest by borrowing on a credit card and rack up debt could lead to societal ills?

Not everyone has a gambling problem, but for the sake of the families of those who do, society does need to put some checks and balances in place.

Surely the credit card companies could find some way of limiting spending. As usual in this country we punish the many for the sins of the few. I'll be looking at Revolut as an option.

Working class heroes

recipio wrote: »

Surely the credit card companies could find some way of limiting spending. As usual in this country we punish the many for the sins of the few. I'll be looking at Revolut as an option.

Addiction is an illness, not a "sin"...

Need a Username

recipio wrote: »

Surely the credit card companies could find some way of limiting spending. As usual in this country we punish the many for the sins of the few. I'll be looking at Revolut as an option.

If this is what you consider a “punishment”...!!!

Dodge

recipio wrote: »

Surely the credit card companies could find some way of limiting spending. As usual in this country we punish the many for the sins of the few. I'll be looking at Revolut as an option.

Being told you can use a debit card or a prepaid card instead of a credit card isn’t a punishment

If you’re worried about your missus and your accountant seeing your lottery spend then you probably do have a problem

recipio

Dodge wrote: »

Being told you can use a debit card or a prepaid card instead of a credit card isn’t a punishment

If you’re worried about your missus and your accountant seeing your lottery spend then you probably do have a problem

I don't. I like to spend a maximum of 1.50 per day as a treat. However I like to keep my discretionary spending away from prying eyes as is my right.However . as there seems to be a workaround solution then I'm happy. And the phrase I used is an old biblical quotation - please don't take it literally.:rolleyes:

seamus

BrownFinger wrote: »

As a younster I worked in the offlicence in SuperQuinn and we didnt take credit cards for the lotto.

IIRC the issue here is that a gambling debt is not legally enforceable.

That is, if I give you a €500 lotto ticket on the promise that you'll pay me back, I have no way of enforcing that €500 debt. If I go to court, they'll tell me to go away, tough sh1t.

You can see how credit cards complicate this situation because buying a lotto ticket on the card becomes a "gambling debt" that the card company may not be able to chase. The card company can reverse the charge back to the retailer, who is then stiffed for the cash.

Online play gets around this problem by using online accounts where you transfer funds in to. So you don't actually buy bets with your credit card, you top up an online account.

Pushing this back as an issue for credit card companies to solve, means gambling companies can get away with doing whatever they want. They will come up with ways of dodging whatever blocks the card companies put up.
The credit card company already has skin in the game; they don't want people racking up debts they can't afford.
The gambling companies need to brought in line too and stand to have something to lose if they're letting people gamble irresponsibly.

skinny90

recipio wrote: »

I don't. I like to spend a maximum of 1.50 per day as a treat. However I like to keep my discretionary spending away from prying eyes as is my right.However . as there seems to be a workaround solution then I'm happy. And the phrase I used is an old biblical quotation - please don't take it literally.:rolleyes:

whats stopping you withdraw Cash and buy a ticket instore?

Sheep Shagger

Any idea why the daily cap is €70.... its very low and a hard core gambler would just spend more in store. The fact that the app closes for sales are at night, how many more controls do they need?

Not ideal if trying to run a syndicate....even €150 or €200 would be more realistic.

Doodah7

recipio wrote: »

I don't. I like to spend a maximum of 1.50 per day as a treat. However I like to keep my discretionary spending away from prying eyes as is my right.However . as there seems to be a workaround solution then I'm happy. And the phrase I used is an old biblical quotation - please don't take it literally.:rolleyes:

€500 a year playing the lotto!! You are being taken for a mug!!

Hiding your gambling is also slightly concerning imo.

punisher5112

One big thing to remember is if going for a mortgage this will go against you using a credit card or debit card.
If the ones you can add money to like revolut or n26 for example.

I had to print off 6 months statement in any account or prepaid debit card.

It won't stop gamblers but hopefully make it a little more difficult to spend money one doesn't have.

It absolutely destroys people.

punisher5112

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Any idea why the daily cap is €70.... its very low and a hard core gambler would just spend more in store. The fact that the app closes for sales are at night, how many more controls do they need?

Not ideal if trying to run a syndicate....even €150 or €200 would be more realistic.

People tend to spend more online as it's just too easy.

If you go into the shop at least it may put some off looking for such huge amounts.

swampy353

punisher5112 wrote: »

One big thing to remember is if going for a mortgage this will go against you using a credit card or debit card.
If the ones you can add money to like revolut or n26 for example.

I had to print off 6 months statement in any account or prepaid debit card.

It won't stop gamblers but hopefully make it a little more difficult to spend money one doesn't have.

It absolutely destroys people.

According to the lottery, from a banks point of view, lotto spend is treated differently to paddy power.
The lotto has also brought in several measures for in store purchases to do with problem gambling. A few months ago they imposed a limit of 10 scratch cards per customer and they have secret shoppers who test the shops on a quarterly basis

skinny90

swampy353 wrote: »

According to the lottery, from a banks point of view, lotto spend is treated differently to paddy power.
The lotto has also brought in several measures for in store purchases to do with problem gambling. A few months ago they imposed a limit of 10 scratch cards per customer and they have secret shoppers who test the shops on a quarterly basis

It really shouldn’t be tho. I see pensioners spending 50-80 euro weekly on tickets

swampy353

skinny90 wrote: »

It really shouldn’t be tho. I see pensioners spending 50-80 euro weekly on tickets

I agree with you but doesn't change the fact a lot of people don't see lotto as gambling but look down at other forms of gambling. It generally comes across as a bit of snobbery

Sheep Shagger

punisher5112 wrote: »

One big thing to remember is if going for a mortgage this will go against you using a credit card or debit card.
If the ones you can add money to like revolut or n26 for example.

I had to print off 6 months statement in any account or prepaid debit card.

It won't stop gamblers but hopefully make it a little more difficult to spend money one doesn't have.

It absolutely destroys people.

Strangely when we switched mortgage providers 2 years ago they never questioned the €150 debiting my account each month for lottery.ie (I manage a work syndicate and find buying online easier as they check the tickets automatically).

Sheep Shagger

skinny90 wrote: »

It really shouldn’t be tho. I see pensioners spending 50-80 euro weekly on tickets

Agreed, used to annoy me when you'd see people getting their benefits in cash in the post office handed over only to take say €20 or €30 out and hand it straight back to buy lottery products....but that's another story.

recipio

Doodah7 wrote: »

€500 a year playing the lotto!! You are being taken for a mug!!

Hiding your gambling is also slightly concerning imo.

Its less than what a lot of people spend on coffee - and you can deduct the wins I've had. I raised this question as I see it as a breach of privacy. Its extraordinary how some people can conflate a desire for online privacy with a gambling addiction. :rolleyes:

Guy:Incognito

recipio wrote: »

I raised this question as I see it as a breach of privacy.

A company deciding on what payment methods it accepts is nothing of the sort.

Mimon

Doodah7 wrote: »

€500 a year playing the lotto!! You are being taken for a mug!!

Hiding your gambling is also slightly concerning imo.

Girls in work go through that a month playing slots online. They think when they win a bit it as actual win. All they do is spend their "winnings" to keep playing and end up losing it, delusional.

Play a bit of poker and only count a win if I win enough that I can cash out and it's in my bank account.

Rodin

seamus wrote: »

They're getting ahead of imminent legislation that will make it illegal to gamble on credit. Bookies, both online and in-shop will not be allowed to accept credit cards as payment for bets. Only debit cards.

Afaik, the law hasn't been drafted yet, but it's coming. The UK announced they would be banning it in April.

It's a good move.
The next would be to ban those awful online Bingo/casino adverts. So many of them

thomas 123

Hopefully we see the end of gambling ads on RTE soon also.

RTE the truth matters, next ad win big at MRgreen

Shelflife

seamus wrote: »

IIRC the issue here is that a gambling debt is not legally enforceable.

That is, if I give you a €500 lotto ticket on the promise that you'll pay me back, I have no way of enforcing that €500 debt. If I go to court, they'll tell me to go away, tough sh1t.

You can see how credit cards complicate this situation because buying a lotto ticket on the card becomes a "gambling debt" that the card company may not be able to chase. The card company can reverse the charge back to the retailer, who is then stiffed for the cash.

Online play gets around this problem by using online accounts where you transfer funds in to. So you don't actually buy bets with your credit card, you top up an online account.

Pushing this back as an issue for credit card companies to solve, means gambling companies can get away with doing whatever they want. They will come up with ways of dodging whatever blocks the card companies put up.
The credit card company already has skin in the game; they don't want people racking up debts they can't afford.
The gambling companies need to brought in line too and stand to have something to lose if they're letting people gamble irresponsibly.

I think they get around this by treating any money used to deposit into a bookies/ lotto account as a cash withdrawal as opposed to a purchase. You also pay interest on this withdrawal/advance straight away.

yabadabado

I've no issue with them stopping the use of credit cards but they could spend a few quid to fix their website. Its an awful piece of crap.

rodia77

/.../here at the National Lottery we’re always looking at ways to promote and improve Responsible Play. It’s something we take very seriously, which is why we have taken the decision to phase out the use of credit cards and commercial cards as a means of payment for playing online.

Since I've been around for too long to accept 'it's for your own good' as an honest reason, who is gaining on this move and what, and what else do I lose apart from the obvious liberty to pay however the hell I want?

punisher5112

rodia77 wrote: »

/.../here at the National Lottery we’re always looking at ways to promote and improve Responsible Play. It’s something we take very seriously, which is why we have taken the decision to phase out the use of credit cards and commercial cards as a means of payment for playing online.

Since I've been around for too long to accept 'it's for your own good' as an honest reason, who is gaining on this move and what, and what else do I lose apart from the obvious liberty to pay however the hell I want?

It's to try and stop people using money they don't have.

Cabaal

Anybody playing the lotto on credit is nothing more then a mug, this is very much a good move

Cabaal

rodia77 wrote: »

Since I've been around for too long to accept 'it's for your own good' as an honest reason, who is gaining on this move and what, and what else do I lose apart from the obvious liberty to pay however the hell I want?

But you don't actually have freedom to pay however you want. Not by miles.

They don't accept cheques, money orders, bank drafts, bitcoin or barter as payment for the lotto online. So thats hardly freedom :pac:

You can't give them a chicken in exchange for a few lotto tickets, thats hardly freedom.

rodia77

Cabaal wrote: »

But you don't actually have freedom to pay however you want. Not by miles.

They don't accept cheques, money orders, bank drafts, bitcoin or barter as payment for the lotto online. So thats hardly freedom :pac:

You can't give them a chicken in exchange for a few lotto tickets, thats hardly freedom.

Right, one freedom less, if that phrasing makes more sense to you.

Doodah7

Loss of freedom about playing the lotto ffs... you sound like a deluded Trumper.

If you can’t see the upside in this rule change then your cynical, long time around the block shtick is a bit wasted.

rodia77

Did I ask to-the-point questions or for opinions of moralistic idiots? One just made it to my ignore list, next please.

Doodah7

rodia77 wrote: »

Did I ask to-the-point questions or for opinions of moralistic idiots? One just made it to my ignore list, next please.

Yawn. Trigger happy keyboard warrior and all round ‘big man’. Ten-a-penny...

L1011

rodia77 wrote: »

Did I ask to-the-point questions or for opinions of moralistic idiots? One just made it to my ignore list, next please.

You do not control the flow of the thread or the type of replies

And on that, thread closed - there is no consumer issue here and its clearly run its course.