performance of sim card router inside a 'shed'

brianiac

Hi,
Trying to optimise my home internet.
Recent renovation and decided to clad with metal our entire upper floor and roof. think a house inside a shed. Our internet is via a simcard router. should probably have forseen the issue. Its blocking the signal. No option for wired broadband as cabinet is too far away despite being in county dublin. I asked the tv guy to lay 2 extra coax cables to the study from beside the outside TV aerials and wired all the rooms with cat5 coming back to same room. my idea was to connect an outside passive aerial i had to the router improve the reception then link the various rooms via cat5.


However our Internal internet speed is poor.
Using the supplied router: Huawei B525s-23a...

Study router: 2.4 D2.23Mb/s U8.1Mb/s
Study router: 5ghz D3.5Mb/s U 7.7Mb/s

Study Router+passive external antennae: 2.4Mb/s D1.5Mb/s
Study Router + passive external antennae 5 ghz D1.6Mb/s

Upstairs router D4Mb/s
Upstairs Router 5Ghz D~5Mb/s

OUtside: 2.4 D25.1Mb/s U9.5Mb/s
outside 5ghz D39Mb/s U8.0Mb/s

Q's:
1: would i benefit from a 'better' sim card router?
2: is the fact i used caox cable to connect the poynting external aerial and the router impact performance? (Now that i think of it i have just shoved the internal core of the coax connecter into the aerial socket but the external connector is too large --> not forming a 'loop')

I would really like to avoid drilling through the cladding. Obvious answer to me is to find some means of placing the router away from the house, running cat 5 back to one of the wired rooms and then back to the study...then to the rest of the house. Seems cumbersome though...

Thanks for reading this far!

smuggler.ie

This tread would be better in Midband forum
1. Possibly, but not warranted.
2. 4G antenna cable would be different than TV coax by its properties and total length should not exceed ~10m

More here

Bikerman2019

brianiac wrote: »

Hi,
Trying to optimise my home internet.
Recent renovation and decided to clad with metal our entire upper floor and roof. think a house inside a shed. Our internet is via a simcard router. should probably have forseen the issue. Its blocking the signal. No option for wired broadband as cabinet is too far away despite being in county dublin. I asked the tv guy to lay 2 extra coax cables to the study from beside the outside TV aerials and wired all the rooms with cat5 coming back to same room. my idea was to connect an outside passive aerial i had to the router improve the reception then link the various rooms via cat5.


However our Internal internet speed is poor.
Using the supplied router: Huawei B525s-23a...

Study router: 2.4 D2.23Mb/s U8.1Mb/s
Study router: 5ghz D3.5Mb/s U 7.7Mb/s

Study Router+passive external antennae: 2.4Mb/s D1.5Mb/s
Study Router + passive external antennae 5 ghz D1.6Mb/s

Upstairs router D4Mb/s
Upstairs Router 5Ghz D~5Mb/s

OUtside: 2.4 D25.1Mb/s U9.5Mb/s
outside 5ghz D39Mb/s U8.0Mb/s

Q's:
1: would i benefit from a 'better' sim card router?
2: is the fact i used caox cable to connect the poynting external aerial and the router impact performance? (Now that i think of it i have just shoved the internal core of the coax connecter into the aerial socket but the external connector is too large --> not forming a 'loop')

I would really like to avoid drilling through the cladding. Obvious answer to me is to find some means of placing the router away from the house, running cat 5 back to one of the wired rooms and then back to the study...then to the rest of the house. Seems cumbersome though...

Thanks for reading this far!

Can you not site it at a window?

jimmycrackcorm

I'm undertaking a similar renovation project. Using foil insulation so I expect that the signal will be poor inside. However, I'm going to run Cat cable from my existing router in the house to the shed and install a local wifi router there also. The primary purpose is to actually have a hard-wired ethernet connection there back, but also wifi for my phone.

alan4cult

Get a Zyxel LTE3302 with an external antenna. But first, bring the router outside and check what you can actually get with clear view of sky.

greasepalm

I am wondering if home plugs could be used in that situation through the power lines?

brianiac

Thanks for all the replies.

smuggler.ie wrote: »

This tread would be better in Midband forum
1. Possibly, but not warranted.
2. 4G antenna cable would be different than TV coax by its properties and total length should not exceed ~10m

More here

Happy to relocate there (hadnt seen it, is moving the thread something i am able to do?)
great linked resource - thanks. workign my way through it but answering my main q's.

I tried the various window optinos, minimal improvement. The ground level isnt clad, upstairs is so even at windows I think the cladding is affecting things.

I have the external download speeds in bold - 39Mb outside vs 4 inside..

Will check out the external antennae link. and thanks for suiggesting the soicket thing. i may run an external antennae to teh attached garage then sockets/cat 5 to rest of house.

smuggler.ie

brianiac wrote: »

Happy to relocate there (hadnt seen it, is moving the thread something i am able to do?)

@Mods

ED E

Report your own post and Yoyo wil move it.

Lucifer

Have a look at this thread

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057089101/

yoyo

Moved from Comp & Tech

brianiac

ok given both my incorrect coax cable i ran and the length i have (pretty sure >10m) i am thinking now i should repurpose a cat5e cables i placed externally for security cameras and is wired back to study.

I can get a POE lan5e sim card router, direct it into my huawei 525 (can it be used as wireless router to externall derived internet?). There are a variety out there i have come across:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mikrotik-RBLHGR-R11E-LTE-MikroTik-LHG/dp/B07HYMT1XK/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=MikroTik&qid=1611522970&sr=8-1

https://www.outdoorrouter.com/product/eu-outdoor-wifi-4g-router-cat6-double-sim-card/?alg_currency=EUR&gclid=Cj0KCQiA0rSABhDlARIsAJtjfCe4yaYrQUijNNoJH6k5CG15H2-cUeHk8gos-7GN8XU1S6iEsWaNcwIaAgxkEALw_wcB

the former is cheaper but has a review from an irish user who said it isnt boosting frequency that irish carriers use so less effective than it could be.
the latter is over double the price bu features a built-in wifi: which may cause the same issue as devices internally will have signal affected by the cladding. I think it can operate in bridge mode so allowing me to use my current router for internal wifi.

grateful for any opinions.

del roy

greasepalm wrote: »

I am wondering if home plugs could be used in that situation through the power lines?

Have this, my shed is about 90ft from modem in the house and they work perfect.

Zimmerframe

Easy,
Before you can do anything, you have to get the "maximum" outside signal to "indoors", in your router.
This can only be done with an external antenna, with proper connectors and the shortest cable length, into your existing router the Huawei 525.
Wouldn't change the router at this stage as unlikely to have a significant benefit.

Start there, once you have a good 4g signal inside in your house, you should at the very least, have a better signal than before you put the cladding on the house.

If/when you have a good 3g/4g signal on your router, you can start distributing your lan/wifi with a mixture of cables and/or a mesh network.

smuggler.ie

brianiac wrote: »

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mikrotik-RB...1522970&sr=8-1
the former is cheaper but has a review from an irish user who said it isnt boosting frequency that irish carriers use so less effective than it could be.

Not familiar with this device, but it could be just that users experience due to location/setup/specs
Looking at the specs it should work, but its worse than B525 - LTE Cat4 vs Cat6 and Eth 100Mbps vs 1000Mbps

Mobile Details
2G Category Class12
2G bands 2 (1900MHz) / 3 (1800MHz) / 5 (850MHz) / 8 (900MHz)
3G Category R7 (21Mbps Downlinks, 5.76Mbps Uplink)
3G bands 1 (2100MHz) / 2 (1900MHz) / 5 (850MHz) / 8 (900MHz)
LTE Category 4 (150Mbps Downlink, 50Mbps Uplink)
LTE FDD bands 1 (2100MHz) / 2 (1900MHz) / 3 (1800MHz) / 7 (2600MHz) / 8 (900 MHz) / 20 (800MHz)
LTE TDD bands 38 (2600MHz) / 40 (2300MHz)

Second linked device is LTE Cat6, but again - 100Mb on Ethernet

Is setting router in the attic and antenna cables running through gable wall not an option?
Edit: I mean vent outlet perhaps
Another possible setup would be installing router in weatherproof casing outside and run Cat5/6 into your distribution location
WiFi inside could be addressed with introducing AP where required

brianiac

we actually dont have an attic and the metal cladding covers roof and external walls. similar to...

no vents either. went with heat recovery system...

Thanks for checking those specs - I am not in a psotition to interpret them. I have gleaned is that irish data bands used are in range of 800-900 Mhz which varies from europe and that any gain benefit should be boosting in that range. Beyond that.....

We are 1.8km as crow flies to the nearest mast, just trees in between from 1st floor window and adjacent to where i am envisaging the device...Is 100 Mbps a significant limitation given much lower connection speed?

Had not considered a weather proof casing at all, certainly food for thought. wouldnt be an issue to link the cat 5 and run power from one of our external sockets. Next item to investigate!

smuggler.ie

brianiac wrote: »

. I have gleaned is that irish data bands used are in range of 800-900 Mhz which varies from europe and that any gain benefit should be boosting in that range. Beyond that.....

EU would be all same bands i think, IRL use 1, 3, 20, 28 for 4G at the moment

We are 1.8km as crow flies to the nearest mast, just trees in between from 1st floor window and adjacent to where i am envisaging the device...Is 100 Mbps a significant limitation given much lower connection speed?

At 1.8Km, providing you have confirmed it is your mast, with router fitted outside and positioned at the "right spot", you might not even need external antenna(still i think it would be beneficial).
At some point back in time i had mine sitting on the balcony(sheltered) and had "good" speeds without antenna at ~4km distance.
If you hitting max under 100Mbps it wont make difference now, but we are looking into future capabilities, don't we
Expecting upgrade kit to arrive in next few weeks, will see what i get then.

Had not considered a weather proof casing at all, certainly food for thought. wouldnt be an issue to link the cat 5 and run power from one of our external sockets. Next item to investigate!

Something like this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Knightsbridge-JB0010-X-Large-Weatherproof-Junction/dp/B00Z74CJBC/ref=sr_1_14?crid=KF4T51ZBRATI&dchild=1&keywords=weatherproof+electrical+box&qid=1611575767&sprefix=weatherproof+%2Caps%2C203&sr=8-14
Someone had Huawei running on PoE, years ago was thread mentioning about it . Have not tested, but with right equipment should work

John_Mc

External 4G antenna definitely the way to go. I bought one on Amazon that came with a 5m cable and they recommended not going longer as the signal deteriorates if you go any longer.

Mount it on the outside wall on the side nearest to the most suitable 4g mast.

Once inside the house and connected to modem, you can use regular Cat5/Cat6 cable and/or mesh network to distribute within the house.

brav

MikroTik had a few different versions of that LHG LTE(the one the looks like a mini dish)
There is:
LHG LTE - Basic CAT4/LTE, 1 band at a time
LHG LTE6 - CAT6/LTE-a, 2 bands at a time with carrier aggregation
LHGG LTE6 - Same as above but 1Gb port instead of 100Mb

However LHG is probably overkill if only 2km but would still work no issue. Regarding the bands, the design of the LHG boosts bands 1 and 3 a lot, but not much in the band 20 range, but still works like an omnidirectional one for band 20 and more focused for bands 1 and 3.

MikroTik also do a more compact one, the SXT ones:
SXT LTE
SXT LTE6
These are not as powerful as the LHGs, they are a little cheaper and still has good gain just not as much as the LHG.

Otherwise they have the indoor models, the best being the Chateau LTE12, which is a CAT12.

With CAT6 devices, I image the most you are going to get is 70 to 80Mbps download speed, which is why moist devices in that range are only 100Mbps.
CAT12 though could easily get over the 100Mbps speed.

If you already have a 4G modem, the Huawai one, then assuming it can do CAT6 or more, I would just stick with that and get an outdoor aerial.
One like the Poynting Omni aerial should do, just don't buy from Amazon UK obviously with customs etc. Other common aerials are the Iskra L700 or the LowcostMobile 700-2600MHz

smuggler.ie

This was on B525(Cat6) with Iskra P58 L700 kit
It was one-timer back in mid 2020 and lasted for 3-4 hours before noon, was not able to replicate thereafter.

brianiac

they are crazy numbers. i am most jealous of your latency - would be able to remotely jam with some old mates if i was able to get sub 30ms .

In terms of aerials - i actually already have that poynting outside the house. the issue is the incorrect coax cable - its tv cable. my 'ah shur til be grand' attitude has bitten me on the ass. I have ordered the correct sma connectors (vs the tv connectors that were shoved on) to try firstly but think i'll end up using an external sim router....if i can find one that boosts band 20 that would be reassuring...though there must be a reason they dont?

however before i splurge, what about when 5g comes along? according to https://www.nperf.com/en/map/IE/-/185503.Three-Mobile/signal/?ll=53.44553530620064&lg=-6.29018783569336&zoom=14 there is limited 5g connectivity around where my nearest mast operates...i have read elsewhere they require their own fibreoptic network to be upgraded and i'm pretty sure the contractors were near the mast for that a few months past...will a new generation of simarc routers be required to make use of that or will they operate ok? I found a news article from 2018 that suggested three (my network) will operate their 5g in the 3600Mhz range. even the LHGG LTE6 doesnt appear to operate in that range. Should i just hold out for a router that does that job?

Intrigued by the external enclosure btw - but b525 doesnt appear to support POE? was it done by DIY splicing the POE injector power out to the standard power connector at the router? I had a nosy around my site again this evening. clambering up the ESB pole with an extension lead and double length ladder i was only getting ~15mbps with the router perched on top - a tad below the various leathal looking doo-hickeys near the top. perhaps they themselves cause interference? unfortunately the house is actually built on a slight hillock...the pole and likely trees around are all lower down. u

iltimately i am thinking just bite the bullet, stick the anntenae at the very top strapped to the chimney stack and drop cat5e down to the existing cable and patch in. Final discovery today is that my 525 doesnt seem to allow bridgeing mode so i would need a new router for internal wifi...:(

smuggler.ie

5G "routers" already available, but you talking 500+. Buying one without assurance you will be able to use 5G sound bit crazy to me.

Non of home grade routers would support PoE natively.

PoE+ switch/injector >> CAt5e/6 >> PoE+ splitter. *
There would be some specifics involved:
Splitter DC jack has to match type
support 1000Mbps(or independent CAT5e/6 just for power)
support >15W output - *not sure if router would require that, here it says <20W ,hence PoE+
More review would be needed into this, so yeah....
But before you go that route you need to find the "spot"

Don't even think going near ESB poles with your router or antenna - either you'll get in trouble with them or get killed or both.

brianiac

smuggler.ie wrote: »

Don't even think going near ESB poles with your router or antenna - either you'll get in trouble with them or get killed or both.

Yes i should have clarified! i was just intending on seeing if a similarly placed/heighted B525 would improve performance significantly - wasnt near any transformer and have no intention of permanently fixing anything to it.

Agreed on the spending on something that may not make a difference...but by same token if i spend half that then an external 5g router comes along but meh. I'll have to just bite the bullet at some point. You've been very helpful, thanks.
For posterity i'll record the difference that optimising the coax cables i have makes once the correct connectors arrive

smuggler.ie

B525 has signal metrics shown under Settings>System>Device information
These numbers fluctuate and not always "best signal" mean best speed.
Use these as guide to determine "best" router(or antenna) location. Signal chart

Speed test recommended to be done over Ethernet and not WiFi

Speed test recommended to be done off peak time to eliminate congestion. As lots of people work from home + students, and i guess most countryside rely on mobile broadband, it leaves you narrow gap early in the morning.
Simplest congestion indicator(but not limited to) - if your UL speed is much higher than DL
Also, try force router into "3G only" - sometimes it could be better than 4G

Its less relevant for your Omni Directional antenna, but still might help to verify what mast is "yours" , what bands it actually operate on and what band your router connects to

Check router set to "External" once antenna connected - it should be OK if on "Auto" , but to be sure....

ED E

IMHO ensure you've support for B3+B20+B28(temp, will become permanent) LTE-A and forget 5G. 5G upgrade works will assist the whole site and aggregated 4G is really what you want.

smuggler.ie

ED E wrote: »

IMHO ensure you've support for B3+B20+B28(temp, will become permanent) LTE-A and forget 5G. 5G upgrade works will assist the whole site and aggregated 4G is really what you want.

You not include B1? Any particular reason? As this is my "working horse" atm.

ED E

smuggler.ie wrote: »

You not include B1? Any particular reason? As this is my "working horse" atm.

B1 is near exclusively used for 3G at the minute.

brav

ED E wrote: »

B1 is near exclusively used for 3G at the minute.

For Three around here at least B1 offers the best speed right now, easy to get 70 Mbps on just that band alone, here’s hoping it lasts past April.
I think permanently adding B1 and B28 will be great to spread out the load for CA