Travel to America - healthcare

theguzman

My wife and I are thinking to start our family later this year, we are just toying with the idea of spending 3-6 months in the USA (legally) my wife has a B1/B2 visa which will allow her to spend 6 months there, I would get 90 days on the ESTA but could obtain a B1/B2 visa also if required, I actually had one in the past. You cannot travel directly from Ireland now but it is still possible to enter via a 3rd country and spending 2 weeks outside of Ireland, this may have changed by the time we embark on this ambitious plan with direct travel opened again.

Our purpose of travel is citizenship tourism, We both want for our children to be born as US Citizens to give the best possible headstart in life, it is something that my wife agrees with also.

I have read different estimations of costs but the most common figure seems to be $35k as a childbirth, with complications it could rise but a sum of money I'd be willing to gladly pay.

This isn't your typical post here in the travel forum and I'm researching Reddit alot, just thought I'd throw it out there.

ted1

theguzman wrote: »

Our purpose of travel is citizenship tourism, We both want for our children to be born as US Citizens to give the best possible headstart in life, it is something that my wife agrees with also.

Is this a wind up ?

SweetSand

I read a lot of similar topics on my Russian forum, it is quiet a popular thing to do. I guess I can understand motives for Russian people but if your child is going to have an Irish passport which is actually in 2020 ranking is ranked higher than US and UK passports - I really don't see a headstart you are trying to give. Option of becoming a president I guess is worth it and absolutely no benefits to parents until child reaches 18 y.o.
Few things to remember, your wife's b1/b2 doesn't automatically admit her to US for 6 months. It is up to immigration officer to decide and when asked "What's the purpose of your trip?" what are you going to say? Same for you - to get b1/b2, you have to have a valid reason, don't think "having a child in US" is a valid one. Anyway, I know people do it but I really find it hard to justify for someone coming from Ireland unless you are living in Ireland for a short period of time and your child is not going to be eligible for Irish citizenship? I think 2 main destinations for that purpose are Miami and Salt Lake City, second one being cheaper. I saw numbers between $20000-40000, including accommodation for few months, car rental, groceries, hospital bills and etc.

America gives the best possible head start in life...


Are you posting from the 1800s OP?

theguzman

I live in Ireland and have lived here most of my life with time spent abroad also, Economic opportunity in Rural Ireland is incredibly limited and with the brutal taxation burden and the continuos attack on our religion we don't see Ireland as somewhere particularly nice to live, it in an insular and backwards in alot of ways and incredibly begrudging. My reason is entirely for to give my children the freedoms that are not available here.

Idaho and Nebraska are looking likely spots for the low cost base, my wife is familiar with florida and spent time there before also so we will check there too. It will be a 2022 project definitely.

killbillvol2

theguzman wrote: »

I live in Ireland and have lived here most of my life with time spent abroad also, Economic opportunity in Rural Ireland is incredibly limited and with the brutal taxation burden and the continuos attack on our religion we don't see Ireland as somewhere particularly nice to live, it in an insular and backwards in alot of ways and incredibly begrudging. My reason is entirely for to give my children the freedoms that are not available here.

Idaho and Nebraska are looking likely spots for the low cost base, my wife is familiar with florida and spent time there before also so we will check there too. It will be a 2022 project definitely.

So to get away from an insular and backward society your plan is to go to Idaho or Nebraska? Of the many flaws in your plan this may take the biscuit!

Doubtless the children will be returning to secure a university education in Ireland in time. We’ll keep an eye out for clueless posts about education tourism and healthcare from youngsters with an inherited chip on their shoulders in 18 years or so.

In any case, why ask now about the costs of giving birth in 2022 in the USA, when we’re still in the middle of a pandemic? If you’re serious, why don’t you just make your arrangements and immigrate through approved channels? It’s not as though anyone will bend over backwards in the US to help you if you’re going for the passports and not intent on living the dream.

Better a dose of reality there horse. A brass neck doesn’t provide for a family or get you past border control to drop a brat.

Zaph

theguzman wrote: »

We both want for our children to be born as US Citizens to give the best possible headstart in life

Does that include having to file annual US tax returns and potentially being liable for US tax no matter where in the world they live? Unless they renounce their American citizenship that is.

NSAman

theguzman wrote: »

My wife and I are thinking to start our family later this year, we are just toying with the idea of spending 3-6 months in the USA (legally) my wife has a B1/B2 visa which will allow her to spend 6 months there, I would get 90 days on the ESTA but could obtain a B1/B2 visa also if required, I actually had one in the past. You cannot travel directly from Ireland now but it is still possible to enter via a 3rd country and spending 2 weeks outside of Ireland, this may have changed by the time we embark on this ambitious plan with direct travel opened again.

Our purpose of travel is citizenship tourism, We both want for our children to be born as US Citizens to give the best possible headstart in life, it is something that my wife agrees with also.

I have read different estimations of costs but the most common figure seems to be $35k as a childbirth, with complications it could rise but a sum of money I'd be willing to gladly pay.

This isn't your typical post here in the travel forum and I'm researching Reddit alot, just thought I'd throw it out there.

You are saying Ireland is backwards and insular. Try living in rural America!

I understand that having a child born here gives them options in future life. It can also cause issues.

B1/b2 do not give automatic rights to stay here.

Healthcare is expensive and the figure you mention is correct. Why spend it here? Surely that money would go a long way to give your future child a secure future in Ireland or another country?

America IS a great country if you work hard and have a large amount of luck and drive. It has benefits that many people in Ireland can only dream of, however, for me, Ireland has many benefits that America will never have.

Think carefully before you try this.

SweetSand

theguzman wrote: »

Idaho and Nebraska are looking likely spots for the low cost base, my wife is familiar with florida and spent time there before also so we will check there too. It will be a 2022 project definitely.

Ok, you totally lost me here. As many similar stories I read before - I never read about anyone going to Idaho or Nebraska. I guess the main reason Miami is the main point of entry for this type of thing is - when asked by immigration officer what’s the purpose of your visit - people just answer “tourism” and hide the bump. What on earth do you say is your purpose in visiting Nebraska with a heavily pregnant wife? You can not predict how your wife’s pregnancy is going to be. It’s fine reading stories online how someone with no complications traveled, gave birth and was out by next day. But reality can be completely opposite and super costly in US without health insurance. If you do go ahead with your plan, allow time for birth cert/passport time for your child after birth, it does take few weeks and you definitely don’t want to overstay your visas/ESTA.

vurstflavor

My wife and I are thinking to start our family later this year, we are just toying with the idea of spending 3-6 months in Ireland

Peregrinus

theguzman wrote: »

I live in Ireland and have lived here most of my life with time spent abroad also, Economic opportunity in Rural Ireland is incredibly limited and with the brutal taxation burden and the continuos attack on our religion we don't see Ireland as somewhere particularly nice to live, it in an insular and backwards in alot of ways and incredibly begrudging. My reason is entirely for to give my children the freedoms that are not available here.

But won't your children be Irish citizens and, therefore, EU citizens? Your objective that the should not be confined indefinitely to rural Ireland will be fully met by that; they can move, settle, work and live anywhere in the EEA, or in the UK. The improvement over that, if any, from having a US passport as well is marginal; I question whether that marginal improvement is the best investment for your $35k (per child).

(I note that you and your wife seem yourselves to have the opportunity to settle in the US if you wish, as she has a B1/B2 visa and you are confident you could get one, and yet you apparently prefer the limited economic opportunities, brutal taxation, hostile religious climate, insularity, backwardness and begrudgery of rural Ireland. So it can't be that bad.)

SweetSand

vurstflavor wrote: »

My wife and I are thinking to start our family later this year, we are just toying with the idea of spending 3-6 months in Ireland

Please do, I can recommend you some really beautiful spots around Connemara.

SweetSand

Peregrinus wrote: »

But won't your children be Irish citizens and, therefore, EU citizens? Your objective that the should not be confined indefinitely to rural Ireland will be fully met by that; they can move, settle, work and live anywhere in the EEA, or in the UK. The improvement over that, if any, from having a US passport as well is marginal; I question whether that marginal improvement is the best investment for your $35k (per child).

Absolutely! OP is either trolling or his other half has those amazing ideas?

Squeeonline

Zaph wrote: »

Does that include having to file annual US tax returns and potentially being liable for US tax no matter where in the world they live? Unless they renounce their American citizenship that is.

Correct me if I'm wrong but one has to earn over 100k (maybe 200k, can't remember) before that kicks in. I think you may still have to declare a tax return though regardless of income.

Peregrinus

Squeeonline wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but one has to earn over 100k (maybe 200k, can't remember) before that kicks in. I think you may still have to declare a tax return though regardless of income.

It's a bit more complicated than that. US citizens, whether or not resident in the US (or indeed whether or not they have ever been to the US) are liable to tax on their worldwide income. However if you are tax-resident outside the US and tax-resident in one or more foreign countries for the whole of the tax year and meet certain other technical conditions you can claim an exclusion for up to (currently) $106,700 of "foreign earned income".

If you have any income at all from the US — e.g. from an American customer of services you provide; from investments in the US, etc — that's not foreign earned income and it remains taxable.

Also, if you have unearned income from anywhere in the world, that remains taxable. The US tax system distinguishes between earned and unearned income. Earned income would be wages, professional fees, employment bonuses, tips earned by waitstaff, that kind of thing — basically, payments for your labour. Unearned income is everything else - rental income, dividends, interest, capital gains, gifts, inheritances, gambling winnings, alimony, social security payments etc. None of this is covered by the foreign earned income exclusion though, depending on your circumstances, you may have other exclusions or deductions that reduce or eliminate your tax liablity.

Del2005

theguzman wrote: »

I live in Ireland and have lived here most of my life with time spent abroad also, Economic opportunity in Rural Ireland is incredibly limited and with the brutal taxation burden and the continuos attack on our religion we don't see Ireland as somewhere particularly nice to live, it in an insular and backwards in alot of ways and incredibly begrudging. My reason is entirely for to give my children the freedoms that are not available here.

Idaho and Nebraska are looking likely spots for the low cost base, my wife is familiar with florida and spent time there before also so we will check there too. It will be a 2022 project definitely.

What religion is constantly being attacked in Ireland?

We have a low tax economy, even the squeezed middle pay less tax than some countries and no one has any idea what taxes will be like in 20 years. If you think that we have a high public debt the USA has had a negative trade balance for decades we haven't. The wealth gap in the USA is massive and there is no support from government after a very short time if you loose your job. Their health care is broken and incredibly expensive, one of my co workers has to live with a bad back because his insurance in a well paying job doesn't cover it, people take crap jobs to get good health cover and most companies are reducing cover.

The USA has also lost a lot of its power, it was happening before Trump and will continue after Biden.

The J Stands for Jay

theguzman wrote: »

brutal taxation burden

You do realise that of your children are US citizens, they will have to pay US tax on all their income, no matter where they live in the world, even if the income is earned on another country?

SteelyDanJalapeno

McGaggs wrote: »

You do realise that of your children are US citizens, they will have to pay US tax on all their income, no matter where they live in the world, even if the income is earned on another country?

Won't they have an Irish passport aswel?
If the OP can afford it, I say go for it, would be a nice option for their kids down the line

Peregrinus

McGaggs wrote: »

You do realise that of your children are US citizens, they will have to pay US tax on all their income, no matter where they live in the world, even if the income is earned on another country?

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

Won't they have an Irish passport as well?

Presumably they would also have Irish passports, but that wouldn't make any difference to McGaggs' point. If you're liable to US tax as a US citizen, you don't get an exemption on account of being an Irish citizen as well. They like us, but they don't like us that much. If your income is such that your liability to US tax becomes a problem, the only way to solve the problem is to renounce your US citizenship.

Caranica

vurstflavor wrote: »

My wife and I are thinking to start our family later this year, we are just toying with the idea of spending 3-6 months in Ireland

Unlike the US there is no citizenship by birth here...

Peregrinus

Caranica wrote: »

Unlike the US there is no citizenship by birth here...

Indeed there is; it's not a universal right to citizenship by birth, but it's very wide. Anyone born in Ireland, either of whose parents has the right to live in Ireland without any restriction on their period of residence, is an Irish citizen. Thus if vurst or their spouse is a UK citizen, or an EU citizen, or an EEA citizen, then any child of their born in Ireland will be an Irish citizen.

The J Stands for Jay

Peregrinus wrote: »

Presumably they would also have Irish passports, but that wouldn't make any difference to McGaggs' point. If you're liable to US tax as a US citizen, you don't get an exemption on account of being an Irish citizen as well. They like us, but they don't like us that much. If your income is such that your liability to US tax becomes a problem, the only way to solve the problem is to renounce your US citizenship.

Don't forget the hassle of filing the American tax return, even if there's no tax liability at the end of it all. If you have any investments, you need to report the highest value in the year. Have fun checking all 365 values for that one...

JeffKenna

I would not be going to America if pregnant. The leading cause of bankruptcy there is medical bills. You may have a figure of $35k researched but the way the system works over there it could easily be multiples of that by the time you're finished.

ted1

theguzman wrote: »

Economic opportunity in Rural Ireland is incredibly limited and with the brutal taxation burden

you give out about our brutal tax burden, but you are willing to pay medical bills of 35k. our brutal tax burden gives this for free.

our brutal tax burden will educate your child for free. it will give you a monthly allowance for your child.

god forbid your child is ever unemployed , it'll give them social welfare and even give them a house.

rather than going all the way to the state why not leave rural Ireland and move to a city or town.
what attack on our religion? the states is far worse we are only beginning to separate church and state, that already done over there.

Justdesserts

You say you want to “legally” travel to the U.S. for birth tourism ... to have a child there so it can have U.S. citizenship. "Legally" is impossible. Do you realize you are proposing to commit immigration fraud? Birth Tourism is illegal in the U.S., and the only way you will be admitted to the country is if you lie to immigration officials when you enter, which is also illegal. B visas are not to be used for this purpose. The US has been cracking down on this lately. Check out the following links for more information:

natlawreview.com/article/us-department-state-announces-prohibition-birth-tourism

federalregister.gov/documents/2020/01/24/2020-01218/visas-temporary-visitors-for-business-or-pleasure

Having a child in the U.S. does not mean that you, your wife, and the child will be able to stay there and live there after the birth. It will not give citizenship to you or your wife. A B1/B2 visa does not allow you to seek residency. So possibly someday, when your child is an adult, he or she might benefit from U.S. citizenship, but it will not give your child the “headstart in life” you are seeking if the child is not living there to take advantage of what the U.S. has to offer.

Another thing to consider is that most U.S. medical doctors and facilities will not take your wife as a patient without U.S. medical insurance. Most already have more patients than they can handle (especially since COVID), and if you arrive asking for irregular financial arrangements you will draw attention to yourself and what you are trying to do. Medical insurance is the norm in the U.S., so if you don’t have it and are paying for such expensive care yourself, you might as well shout “I’m doing something illegal!” And you can’t just go to the U.S. and buy U.S. medical insurance, because most U.S. medical insurance will not cover treatment for pre-existing conditions such as pregnancy.

If you arrived at the hospital emergency room with a wife in labor, she would be assisted. However, you may have difficulty finding practitioners who will provide the pre-natal care your wife and child will need. And, God forbid, what if she has pregnancy complications, or the child needs special care after birth? You could end up with expenses far beyond your expectations.

Americans in general are not tolerant of non-Americans who seek to cheat the country’s immigration laws, so don't expect US medical personnel to go along with your scheme. They'll be more likely to report you to immigration officials. While some might have sympathy for refugees and those fleeing persecution, what you are proposing is not tolerated. The fact that you are Irish and your wife is Brazilian, without US social security numbers or US identification, will call attention to you and make medical personnel suspicious. Particularly if you are planning to go someplace like Idaho or Nebraska, which are populated mostly by white Americans, you’re going to stand out. Having lived in Idaho myself, I can confirm that Idaho, like many parts of the US, has the reputation of being extremely conservative and not supportive of immigrants.

The reason expenses might be lower in places like Idaho is because the state offers few social benefits or economic opportunities. Educational quality is ranked near the bottom of the country. Wages are extremely low and housing costs have been rising as retirees and out-of-staters move to Idaho to enjoy its natural beauty. It’s hard for locals to find affordable housing and make a decent living.

As others have said, your child would have to file yearly U.S. tax returns and possibly pay US income taxes, even if he or she never lives in the US or earns money there. He or she will also be required to annually complete FBAR forms reporting the value of non-US assets like checking accounts, savings accounts, etc.

To sum this up … 1) What you want to do is illegal. 2) It won’t be as easy as you think and you may get caught. 3) It won’t provide your child with the “headstart” you are hoping. 4) It could be burdensome for your child in the future. So why risk it? Your child will be an Irish/EU citizen, which provides many more benefits than US citizenship.