covid test results shared with employer

tjc28

Hi,

I was sent home from work yesterday after getting the notice to say I'm a close contact of a colleague who has covid. this morning i got a call from hr offering to send me for a free covid test. i accepted and went for the test. 4 hours after the test i got an email from the testing company confirming my appointment (which i had 4 hrs earlier) and outlining the procedures thet have in place. one of which is that they share my results with my employer. This doesn't sit easy with me and had i known i may not of accepted so easily. are there any issues here? is the test not done to me so the results should be given to me. Id be telling the company either way so probably no big deal but i dunno, it just doesnt sit right.
thanks

L1011

Company is paying for this test - you could have opted to just self-isolate and see if you could get a HSE test which would not be shard with them.

tjc28

im not displaying symptoms so hse wont test me. I'm a close contact so dont need to isolate just restrict my movements by staying at home

Dressoutlet

tjc28 wrote: »

im not displaying symptoms so hse wont test me. I'm a close contact so dont need to isolate just restrict my movements by staying at home

Yes 14 days even with a negative test you have to do 14 days

codrulz

you can opt to pay for a private covid test yourself. HSE won't test without symptoms & company will expect access to result as they are paying for this private test.

tjc28

i hadn't considered getting a test at all. im just a close contact. we wear masks and distance in work all the time so i don't consider myself at risk but HR rang twice between 9 and 915 (i missed the 1st one) and were quite pushy about it so just said yeah grand

tjc28

Dressoutlet wrote: »

Yes 14 days even with a negative test you have to do 14 days

no problem with the 14 days and know even when the test is negative im staying put for the 14 days. its just the test is done to me and i think the results should come to me alone

Purple Mountain

tjc28 wrote: »

i hadn't considered getting a test at all. im just a close contact. we wear masks and distance in work all the time so i don't consider myself at risk but HR rang twice between 9 and 915 (i missed the 1st one) and were quite pushy about it so just said yeah grand

You expect to be left at work even though you're identified as a close contact?

Snotty

tjc28 wrote: »

no problem with the 14 days and know even when the test is negative im staying put for the 14 days. its just the test is done to me and i think the results should come to me alone

... your employer paid, they get results, too you pay or HSE test, then they don't get results, very simple.

tjc28

Purple Mountain wrote: »

You expect to be left at work even though you're identified as a close contact?

no not at all. as soon as my phone pinged i read the notification and got up and left. i spoke to my boss from my car. did not spend a second in there more than i had too and will not be going back till im clear. i cant work from home unfortunately

tjc28

Snotty wrote: »

... your employer paid, they get results, too you pay or HSE test, then they don't get results, very simple.

fair enough snotty. perhaps hr should explain these things but like i said it hasnt sat right with me. if I'm wrong im wrong. not the first time, not the last time

arbour

tjc28 wrote:

no problem with the 14 days and know even when the test is negative im staying put for the 14 days. its just the test is done to me and i think the results should come to me alone

I don't get what your issue is. I would want to tell as many as possible if I had covid. So people that were anywhere near me can be careful. What does it matter if your employer's find out you're negative or positive?

tjc28

arbour wrote: »

I don't get what your issue is. I would want to tell as many as possible if I had covid. So people that were anywhere near me can be careful. What does it matter if your employer's find out you're negative or positive?

i dont have covid

tjc28

tjc28 wrote: »

i dont have covid

sorry for double quote. i hit post before i finished.
my issue is the procedure was done to me but the results are shared, without my knowledge of this until after the procedure was done, with my employer

Purple Mountain

tjc28 wrote: »

no not at all. as soon as my phone pinged i read the notification and got up and left. i spoke to my boss from my car. did not spend a second in there more than i had too and will not be going back till im clear. i cant work from home unfortunately

Sorry, I misunderstood you.

ms34

i can see the op's point here. if i step off my forklift in work and roll my ankle my employer may offer to bring me to a private fast clinic to have it looked at. would they too expect the examining doctor to contact them to say its a bad sprain or clean break. i think not. they would expect to hear the news from me. is the covid test a medical procedure? if a sample is taken from an individual and sent to a lab you would assume so. should a persons medical information be shared with their employer without their consent? I would think not but this is legal forum so maybe someone could clarify this bit.

Sleeper12

tjc28 wrote:

no problem with the 14 days and know even when the test is negative im staying put for the 14 days. its just the test is done to me and i think the results should come to me alone

Your employer is paying. That's the big thing here.

Options as I see it: 1. don't get the test at all and restrict your movements or 2. Pay for your own test and still restrict your movements

P2C

Irrespective of the results of the test you have to follow the PH advice of restricting your movements for 14 days. If you are not detected you still can not go to work. Your employer may be proactive and in the absence no testing of close contacts wants to test you to make sure their is no further transmission of the virus at the workplace . If you’re test is not detected they may have no further action to take but if you are positive they may need to do further setting tests. Might be there motivation I suspect rather than the result of your test

Lenar3556

In fairness to the employer, there is no suggestion that in offering to pay for this test, their intentions were anything other than pragmatic and in the best interests of their workforce.

The fact that the employer was funding the cost of this test does not necessarily translate to them being entitled to the results being provided to them. It is perhaps likely however that the employer has a documented policy in respect of medical referrals and fitness for work assessments which this may fall within (at least in the broadest terms)

COVID-19 has really tested the rights and entitlements of individuals vis-à-vis the exceptionally serious public health and economic impacts of further spread of this disease.

In normal course, what you describe would suggest weaknesses when it came to obtaining consent and also some data protection considerations. However at the present time, I would expect the courts would extend some latitude to an employer where the bona fides were good.

Dingle_berry

I was always under the impression that medical / diagnostic tests could only be requested by and reported to a clinician? By some law in Ireland?
Yes the requesting can be very lose but it still has to have a clinicians name on it? (Clinician being the term that includes doctors, midwives and some nurses etc)

Wasn't there an issue during the first wave where the HSE was notifying employers before individuals of test results and the Data Commissioner told them to stop?

Lenar3556

Dingle_berry wrote: »

I was always under the impression that medical / diagnostic tests could only be requested by and reported to a clinician? By some law in Ireland?
Yes the requesting can be very lose but it still has to have a clinicians name on it? (Clinician being the term that includes doctors, midwives and some nurses etc)

Wasn't there an issue during the first wave where the HSE was notifying employers before individuals of test results and the Data Commissioner told them to stop?

I don’t think there is anything as cut and dried on that, although the role of a GP in acting as the ‘lifelong guardian’ of a persons health leads to many specialists being slow to accept self-referrals because of the additional due diligence and their ability to provide necessary follow up care.

I’m not sure that you could really equate those situations to this one though.

Yes, I gather that practice has largely stopped, although the HSE has asserted that in exceptional circumstances public health would trump confidentiality and they reserved the right to make disclosures to employers in limited circumstances.

Mrs OBumble

If you employer pays for anything (medical test, external exams, checking the broadband in your house), then of course they are entitled to the results.

I think Dingle Berry is right about there needing to be a responsible clinician, but the private testing companies must have found some way to work this, to let them offer tests for people looking to travel etc.

Agree that the OP should have been told about this before undergoing the test. It's likely that this would be a reminder of existing H&S policy, though, not a first-time view of it.

Lenar3556

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If you employer pays for anything (medical test, external exams, checking the broadband in your house), then of course they are entitled to the results.

Not necessarily. If I paid for a medical test for my wife or adult child I would be doing so with no entitlement whatsoever to the results of said test.

An individuals medical records are highly sensitive, confidential and shouldn’t be disclosed to anyone without the individuals express consent. It is immaterial who pays for the tests or procedures.

Indeed an employer should be careful as to the strict necessity for requesting any medical information from an employee generally. I think a fair degree of necessity would be met in this case, but there is a significant weakness in terms of the disclosure of results given the account provided.

For the avoidance of any doubt, the terms and rational on which an employer is paying for anything outside of the typical terms of employment should be agreed between the parties and documented in advance.

The events described here are unlikely to be prescribed in any H&S or employment handbook unless it has been recently updated.

P2C

Correct. They were issuing results in bulk to managers prior to the text notification system becoming operational in nursing homes and healthcare facilities.


quote="Dingle_berry;115936110"]I was always under the impression that medical / diagnostic tests could only be requested by and reported to a clinician? By some law in Ireland?
Yes the requesting can be very lose but it still has to have a clinicians name on it? (Clinician being the term that includes doctors, midwives and some nurses etc)

Wasn't there an issue during the first wave where the HSE was notifying employers before individuals of test results and the Data Commissioner told them to stop?[/quote]

MarkR

What is the downside of the employer finding out if you have covid or not? If you have it, would you tell them? If you don't, would you hide the fact?

Rolled ankles aren't contagious. They're trying to protect their workforce it seems.

codrulz

MarkR wrote: »

What is the downside of the employer finding out if you have covid or not? If you have it, would you tell them? If you don't, would you hide the fact?

Rolled ankles aren't contagious. They're trying to protect their workforce it seems.

Exactly, they will be telling their employer the outcome regardless. HR may view it as one less call they have to make, one less thing they have to due while ill if they just get the result directly.

Caranica

MarkR wrote: »

What is the downside of the employer finding out if you have covid or not? If you have it, would you tell them? If you don't, would you hide the fact?

Rolled ankles aren't contagious. They're trying to protect their workforce it seems.

It also helps them to plan. Covid isn't a 14 day illness. If you test positive you could be out for a lot longer.

Lenar3556

And in this case, the employer appears to have been acting in good faith, in the interests of their employees welfare, and there is no suggestion to the contrary.

However they still should have obtained proper consent and been clear as to what information was to be shared and with whom at the outset. Even given the exceptional circumstances at present, the sharing of COVID test results with an employer without consent was called out by the Chief Medical Officer as “a breach of confidentiality, full stop”

It is also important that the notion of an employer paying for the test entitling them to the results or any other personal information be dispelled.

TheChizler

Caranica wrote: »

It also helps them to plan. Covid isn't a 14 day illness. If you test positive you could be out for a lot longer.

Or less, you can test positive and have 5 days without a fever before you stop isolating faster than the 14 days of isolation a close contact who doesn't get infected must abide by.

Lenar3556

TheChizler wrote: »

Or less, you can test positive and have 5 days without a fever before you stop isolating faster than the 14 days of isolation a close contact who doesn't get infected must abide by.

It is still a minimum of 10 days from the date the positive result received, and with a stricter isolation requirement.

daheff

arbour wrote: »

I don't get what your issue is. I would want to tell as many as possible if I had covid. So people that were anywhere near me can be careful. What does it matter if your employer's find out you're negative or positive?

I agree with your sentiment. I unfortunately not everybody thinks this way. A number of people won't say anything because they want to keep doing what they want. No care that they might spread the disease more.


As for the op, I understand your point, but company pays for the test. They again need to make sure you are telling them the truth in regards to the result. While you may be honest and sensible to tell the if you were positive...there will be some who will not... especially if they can't work/get paid if tested positive.

This happened in some of the meat factories during the summer at the start.... spread like mad until they got on top of it.

Lenar3556

daheff wrote: »

I agree with your sentiment. I unfortunately not everybody thinks this way. A number of people won't say anything because they want to keep doing what they want. No care that they might spread the disease more.


As for the op, I understand your point, but company pays for the test. They again need to make sure you are telling them the truth in regards to the result. While you may be honest and sensible to tell the if you were positive...there will be some who will not... especially if they can't work/get paid if tested positive.

This happened in some of the meat factories during the summer at the start.... spread like mad until they got on top of it.

Indeed, and there is a number of ways to tackle that;
1. Clearly outline the business policy on attendance at work if symptomatic or a close contact.

2. Clearly outline the implications of a breach of the policy for the individual and the business.

3. If the employers decision is not to offer any degree of sick pay, make the state supports known so as employees don’t feel they are between a rock and a hard place.

4. If serial or one off testing of staff is proposed to take place - discuss with employees in advance, document how it is to operate and get consent!

tjc28

OP here.
I think post 16 verbalises what I couldn't say in my post. It doesn't sit right with me and I couldn't figure why but it is the question of consent to my test results that is getting at me. When HR called they didn't explain that the results would be shared with them nor did they say that I must share the results with them. I took the latter to be a given. I've worked with them for 22 years this year and I'd of thought they know me by now and that I'm not an irresponsible person who would risk my health or anyone else.
The reason I posted here in the legal forum is because of the sharing of my personal information. The test is done to me so the results should come to me no? Is there anything in law that says they can be shared with my employer?
I see another poster said with the way things are now the courts may be leniant with privacy laws but surely the law is the law?
I'm not looking to sue my company or even open a dispute with them. In fact I want to raise it with them to help protect them. They are an excellent company and I enjoy working with them

Carlowgirl

Can someone please tell me if employers are obliged to tell you if there at positive cases at work. I can find information from other countries but not ireland

TheChizler

Lenar3556 wrote: »

It is still a minimum of 10 days from the date the positive result received, and with a stricter isolation requirement.

That's if you're asymptomatic right? Anyway, off on a tangent here

Carlowgirl

tjc28 wrote: »

i hadn't considered getting a test at all. im just a close contact. we wear masks and distance in work all the time so i don't consider myself at risk but HR rang twice between 9 and 915 (i missed the 1st one) and were quite pushy about it so just said yeah grand

How are you a close contact if ye distance!

vurstflavor

It's good the company is being proactive
If you were wearing a mask and did not eat with person you should be negative. A lot of companies will not tell you or send you for a test it takes 3-5

Lenar3556

TheChizler wrote: »

That's if you're asymptomatic right? Anyway, off on a tangent here

10 days from date of positive test, the last 5 of which must be fever free. That’s the latest!

Lenar3556

Carlowgirl wrote: »

Can someone please tell me if employers are obliged to tell you if there at positive cases at work. I can find information from other countries but not ireland

No obligation for an employer to notify staff. Dependent on the circumstances employer may be obliged to take certain actions to prevent spread.