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Re-importing a UK car previous exported from Ireland

  • 11-01-2021 6:41pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭ spartan5397


    Hey All,

    I currently live in the UK and am moving back to Ireland. I have a car that I bought in Ireland that was previously a UK import. Since I bought the car in Ireland I assume I have payed VAT on it. I have my original receipt. I did apply for a VRT refund aswell

    So my questions:
    1) Can I reimport the car and not pay VAT
    2) Can I pay the VRT amount that I paid the last time?
    3) since I am now reimporting will I be required to pay the Nox duty?

    History of car: first registration UK - exported - imported to Ireland - bought in Ireland - VRT paid - used in Ireland for a year - exported - applied for VRT refund - imported to UK - registered in UK - Nox charges came in - Brexit came in - want to return with vehicle

    Thanks all


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 72,762 ✭✭✭✭ colm_mcm


    Do you qualify for transfer of residence?


  • Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭ spartan5397


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    Do you qualify for transfer of residence?

    From my understanding I don't think I can, that's only if I reside in Ireland but work in the UK? such as crossing the Republic and NI border


  • Registered Users Posts: 72,762 ✭✭✭✭ colm_mcm


    Transfer of residence is where you’re moving from abroad to Ireland.
    There are tax exemptions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭ Isambard


    i think you may well qualify for TOR exemption.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,966 ✭✭✭✭ wotzgoingon


    All the people who go over to England(well used to, not up to date since Brexit) to pick up a decent spec car for a lower price and you while living(or moving to) decided to buy a Irish car and bring it to England.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭ Isambard


    All the people who go over to England(well used to, not up to date since Brexit) to pick up a decent spec car for a lower price and you while living(or moving to) decided to buy a Irish car and bring it to England.

    it was a UK car first day


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,966 ✭✭✭✭ wotzgoingon


    Isambard wrote: »
    it was a UK car first day

    I know that but seems to be a mad way to go about it since you are living or moving to England wouldn't it be best to just find one over there and cut out a lot of messing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,724 ✭✭✭ Marcusm


    Isambard wrote: »
    i think you may well qualify for TOR exemption.

    Assuming he has been out of the country long enough, I would agree except that one of the conditions is that the car was acquired overseas under a normal tax regime. In this case the car was acquired in Ireland (ie not overseas) under a normal tax regime but the VRT was part recovered on export.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭ Explosive_Cornflake


    If you qualify for the TOR it'll be free, but you may end up with a new Irish reg. That happened me. It was a mess and it took me almost a year to sort out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭ spartan5397


    Need a bit more help with this.
    I am trying to import the car for the last 2 months under the transfer of residence tax exemption.

    It keeps getting declined stating that the vehicle falls under this

    5.12 Re-imported vehicles

    A vehicle that has been removed or exported under the export repayment scheme and has received a VRT repayment becomes unregistered in the State. If this vehicle re-enters the State on a permanent basis, it must be presented at an NCTS Centre for registration within the normal timeframe. VRT is liable at the time of registration and a new State registration number will be issued.

    This means that no transfer of residence exemption is available to you again for the same vehicle.

    But I never applied for a tax exemption before? This is the first time I have done it


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,973 ✭✭✭ User1998


    I don’t see the issue, your car was exported from Ireland so it doesn’t qualify for the transfer of residence?

    Looks simple to me unless I’m missing something


  • Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭ spartan5397


    User1998 wrote: »
    I don’t see the issue, your car was exported from Ireland so it doesn’t qualify for the transfer of residence?

    Looks simple to me unless I’m missing something

    Well if it was previously purchased and registered in Ireland then why are they looking for me to pay customs duty and VAT.

    This has turned into a Lemon

    People could end up buying cars that were previously in the Irish state in he UK, then decide to move over here, and they would get the same thing as a response. That is not eligible for transfer of residence exemption as it was here at some point in the past.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,973 ✭✭✭ User1998


    Well if it was previously purchased and registered in Ireland then why are they looking for me to pay customs duty and VAT.

    This has turned into a Lemon

    You said the car was first purchased in the UK and then exported to Ireland, therefore no VAT or customs duty was paid on the car in Ireland


  • Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭ spartan5397


    User1998 wrote: »
    You said the car was first purchased in the UK and then exported to Ireland, therefore no VAT or customs duty was paid on the car in Ireland

    - Car was first registered in UK
    - it was exported by an irish Dealer to Ireland
    - I bought the UK Reg car from the Irish Dealer, He VRTed it for me I paid his Irish business for the UK Reg Car
    - I owned and used the car in Ireland for a year
    - I exported the car to the UK
    - I applied for VRT Refund
    - Stayed in UK for 2 years
    - Came back to Ireland
    - Want to register the car on Irish Plates
    - Am being extorted for more money: Duty, Customs charge of 10% value, VAT, VRT, Nox charge
    - I have spoke to a customs clearance business and they dont even know how to go about handling this. They said apply for transfer of residence.
    - Meanwhile the Car is racking up late charges for not getting registered on arrival in the state.

    - Now my Transfer of residence expemption is being rejected.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,973 ✭✭✭ User1998


    Your transfer of residence is being declined because you exported the car to the UK and reclaimed the VRT, and now you want to bring it back to Ireland and not have to pay any VRT/VAT/Customs duties

    Transfer of Residence is for people living abroad to bring their car to Ireland free of import/registration fees. Your car has a history of being in Ireland and being exported so it doesn’t qualify for the transfer of residence

    Unfortunately you’ll just have to sell the car in the UK and buy a car here in Ireland or pay the relevant fees

    And just a side note there is no VAT on used cars so you didn’t pay any VAT on the car when you bought it from a dealer in Ireland. The dealer would have paid VAT on their profits but not on the car itself


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,306 ✭✭✭✭ jimmycrackcorm


    But I never applied for a tax exemption before? This is the first time I have done it


    You applied for a VRT refund when exporting which is why you can't use TOR. Effectively you'd be asking for a VRT exemption twice, despite using the car here for a year prior to moving.


    You should have exchanged it for another car six months before moving back, or else pay the current VRT, which should be less than the refund you received.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,067 ✭✭✭✭ CiniO


    Marcusm wrote: »
    Assuming he has been out of the country long enough, I would agree except that one of the conditions is that the car was acquired overseas under a normal tax regime. In this case the car was acquired in Ireland (ie not overseas) under a normal tax regime but the VRT was part recovered on export.

    Well, seems you predicted what's going to happen 5 months in advance.

    IMO that's wrong though.
    Exact wording from the VRT exemption form is as follows:
    The vehicle was acquired by me under the general conditions of taxation in force in the domestic
    market of a country and was not the subject, on the grounds of exportation or departure
    from that country, of any exemption from or refund of any tax.

    That just means that all taxes due were paid on that car upon acquiring it. And fact that it was imported to UK from abroad (Ireland) and VRT tax in Ireland was claimed back makes no difference, as it was registered and taxed in UK according to UK laws.
    Should there be any equivalent of VRT in UK, it would have to be paid then upon importation. Only reason registration tax was not paid in UK is because there isn't any tax like that in UK.

    Now IMO OP is importing his legally owned UK registered car from UK to Ireland after a period of 2 years living there, and that means he should be due VRT exemption like everyone else in such circumstances.

    edit:
    I digged further.
    https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/vehicle-registration-tax/vrt-manual-section-02.pdf
    Revenue VRT manual show following requirements on vehicle for TOR exemption:
    To qualify for relief the vehicle/s must:
     have been acquired duty-paid i.e. with all local taxes paid and not refunded;

     have arrived in the State within one year of the date of transfer of residence;
     not reflect any commercial/business interest of the applicant.

    This wording might be misleading, and someone including revenue deciding officials might be led to think that VRT refund would count under refunded tax mentioned above.

    However if you look purely in appropriate legislations then wording is as follows:

    Finance Act 1992: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1992/act/9/section/134/enacted/en/html#sec134
    134.—(1) A vehicle may, subject to any conditions, restrictions or limitations prescribed by the Minister by regulations made by him under section 141 be registered without payment of vehicle registration tax if the vehicle is—

    (a) the personal property of a private individual and is being brought permanently into the State by the individual when he is transferring his normal residence from a place outside the State to a place in the State,

    Vehicle Registration Tax (Permanent Reliefs) Regulations, 1993: https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/vehicle-registration-tax/vrt-manual-section-02.pdf
    Transfer of residence

    4. (1) Subject to paragraph (5), the relief under section 134 (1) (a) of the Act shall be granted for any vehicle—

    ( a ) which is the personal property of an individual transferring his normal residence to the State and which has been in the possession of and used by him outside the State for a period of at least six months before the date on which he ceases to have his normal residence outside the State,

    ( b ) which has been acquired under the general conditions of taxation in force in the domestic market of a country and which is not the subject, on the grounds of exportation or departure from that country, of any exemption from or any refund of value-added tax, excise duty or any other consumption tax, and

    This point ( b ) IMO is perfectly clear that OPs car should match. It has been acquired under the general conditions of taxation in force in the domestic market of a country (because it was legally imported), and is not the subject, on the grounds of exportation or departure from that country, of any exemption from or any refund of value-added tax, excise duty or any other consumption tax.


    To me that sound clear.

    IMO OP should get legal advice, and if revenue are not granting transfer of residence VRT exemption, he should fight for his rights in court.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,864 ✭✭✭✭ mickdw


    I dont see why TOR cannot apply.
    The previous repayment of vrt on export was not any kind of exemption - it was just fair repayment of vrt on export.
    I would imagine all import taxes would be due on this car if being normally imported to ireland again but TOR should be possible once in a lifetime.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,067 ✭✭✭✭ CiniO


    User1998 wrote: »
    I don’t see the issue, your car was exported from Ireland so it doesn’t qualify for the transfer of residence?

    Looks simple to me unless I’m missing something

    You are missing the fact, that car being previously registered in Ireland, and OP currently transferring his residence from UK to Ireland and intending on bringing his own UK registered car to Ireland have nothing to do with each other.


    User1998 wrote: »
    Your transfer of residence is being declined because you exported the car to the UK and reclaimed the VRT, and now you want to bring it back to Ireland and not have to pay any VRT/VAT/Customs duties
    That's exactly what he is trying to do.
    And reason for not paying VRT/VAT/Customs is the same as anyone else bringing UK registered car to Ireland while transferring residence - that's what the exemption is for.
    Transfer of Residence is for people living abroad to bring their car to Ireland free of import/registration fees.
    That's exactly what OP is doing.
    Your car has a history of being in Ireland and being exported so it doesn’t qualify for the transfer of residence
    This fact should be totally irrelevant, and there doesn't seem to be any law which would make it relevant.
    Unfortunately you’ll just have to sell the car in the UK and buy a car here in Ireland or pay the relevant fees
    IMO OP should fight for his rights.

    You applied for a VRT refund when exporting which is why you can't use TOR. Effectively you'd be asking for a VRT exemption twice, despite using the car here for a year prior to moving.
    VRT refund he obtained 2 years ago, was just a refund of part of VRT which was paid 3 years ago. This is case one and it's closed.
    It has nothing to do with OP intending to bring his UK registered car to Ireland now under transfer of residence exemption, because that's exactly what he is doing - transferirng his residence.

    You should have exchanged it for another car six months before moving back, or else pay the current VRT, which should be less than the refund you received.
    He shouldn't be paying anything.


  • Registered Users Posts: 278 ✭✭ GSBellew


    CiniO wrote: »
    Well, seems you predicted what's going to happen 5 months in advance.

    IMO that's wrong though.
    Exact wording from the VRT exemption form is as follows:


    That just means that all taxes due were paid on that car upon acquiring it. And fact that it was imported to UK from abroad (Ireland) and VRT tax in Ireland was claimed back makes no difference, as it was registered and taxed in UK according to UK laws.
    Should there be any equivalent of VRT in UK, it would have to be paid then upon importation. Only reason registration tax was not paid in UK is because there isn't any tax like that in UK.

    Now IMO OP is importing his legally owned UK registered car from UK to Ireland after a period of 2 years living there, and that means he should be due VRT exemption like everyone else in such circumstances.

    edit:
    I digged further.
    https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/vehicle-registration-tax/vrt-manual-section-02.pdf
    Revenue VRT manual show following requirements on vehicle for TOR exemption:


    This wording might be misleading, and someone including revenue deciding officials might be led to think that VRT refund would count under refunded tax mentioned above.

    However if you look purely in appropriate legislations then wording is as follows:

    Finance Act 1992: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1992/act/9/section/134/enacted/en/html#sec134


    Vehicle Registration Tax (Permanent Reliefs) Regulations, 1993: https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/vehicle-registration-tax/vrt-manual-section-02.pdf



    This point ( b ) IMO is perfectly clear that OPs car should match. It has been acquired under the general conditions of taxation in force in the domestic market of a country (because it was legally imported), and is not the subject, on the grounds of exportation or departure from that country, of any exemption from or any refund of value-added tax, excise duty or any other consumption tax.


    To me that sound clear.

    IMO OP should get legal advice, and if revenue are not granting transfer of residence VRT exemption, he should fight for his rights in court.

    Nope.

    Ask yourself a question, where was the car acquired by the OP?

    I'll answer that for you, Ireland, it was then subject to a rebate of taxation on export by the OP.

    Now the OP is attempting to reimport an exported car, that was acquired by the OP in Ireland and subject to a refund of tax prior to subsequent reregistration in the UK.

    Otherwise everyone who was moving to the UK for a period would be buying high end cars here, getting a VRT refund and bringing them back in VRT free.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭ Explosive_Cornflake


    Just to weigh in on this.

    I had a UK car form new (I still have it, I have only been the only owner) 2014
    It was imported here, VRT paid. 2015
    It was exported, VRT refunded. 2015
    It was re-imported. VRT exempt. end of 2016
    I did get a new Irish reg.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭ Isambard


    I think the point is being missed by some that the VRT was paid in Ireland in the first place, and correctly an amount was refunded on export when he left. That puts the car on level footing with all other Uk cars. Moving home again with him being eligible in all respects for TOR, should mean he can bring any qualifying car with him irrespective of previous history including this one. SOmeone in Revenue is over-thinking this..


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,864 ✭✭✭✭ mickdw


    GSBellew wrote: »
    Nope.

    Ask yourself a question, where was the car acquired by the OP?

    I'll answer that for you, Ireland, it was then subject to a rebate of taxation on export by the OP.

    Now the OP is attempting to reimport an exported car, that was acquired by the OP in Ireland and subject to a refund of tax prior to subsequent reregistration in the UK.

    Otherwise everyone who was moving to the UK for a period would be buying high end cars here, getting a VRT refund and bringing them back in VRT free.

    But that rebate on export to uk isnt any kind of an exempt or special treatment - its normal taxation similar to moving product around and vat handling of that product.
    He should be in similar situation to anyone else doing TOR.
    You point re moving to uk to make us of this doesnt hold water as you dont even have to move yourself to get the export rebate - you can simply sell your car to uk and get the vrt rebate while being an irish resident - why - because its not any kind of exemption - its normal taxation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭ spartan5397


    Just to weigh in on this.

    I had a UK car form new (I still have it, I have only been the only owner) 2014
    It was imported here, VRT paid. 2015
    It was exported, VRT refunded. 2015
    It was re-imported. VRT exempt. end of 2016
    I did get a new Irish reg.

    Did the registered keeper stay the same for that entire process?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭ Explosive_Cornflake


    Did the registered keeper stay the same for that entire process?

    Yes, 1 owner ever, between DVLA and and here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 278 ✭✭ GSBellew


    Just to weigh in on this.

    I had a UK car form new (I still have it, I have only been the only owner) 2014
    It was imported here, VRT paid. 2015
    It was exported, VRT refunded. 2015
    It was re-imported. VRT exempt. end of 2016
    I did get a new Irish reg.

    You acquired the car outside the state, you qualify.

    The OP acquired the car in the state, he does not qualify.

    Everything else is irrelevant because of the acquisition in the state.

    Yes it was originally a UK registered car, but the OP didn't own it on a UK reg, they bought it from an Irish dealer VRT'd on Irish plates.


  • Registered Users Posts: 278 ✭✭ GSBellew


    mickdw wrote: »
    But that rebate on export to uk isnt any kind of an exempt or special treatment - its normal taxation similar to moving product around and vat handling of that product.
    He should be in similar situation to anyone else doing TOR.
    You point re moving to uk to make us of this doesnt hold water as you dont even have to move yourself to get the export rebate - you can simply sell your car to uk and get the vrt rebate while being an irish resident - why - because its not any kind of exemption - its normal taxation.

    Firstly look at the acquisition, it must be outside the state.

    Secondly, my point re the VRT rebate does hold water, for you to get the VRT refund you must own the car, it must be registered to you at an Irish address or garage code, so you now own an Irish registered car in Ireland, whilst you can export that and receive a partial VRT refund, note that a refund or exemption is specified, you can not import the same car VRT free under transfer of residence as the initial acquisition was within the state.


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