Hiking in bad weather

Responder XY

So leaving aside the elephant in the room that is the 5km Covid restrictions - what are peoples thoughts on going into the hills during cold wintery weather like we've had over the past few weeks.

I've seen quite a few social media and news posts criticising people who go out and then need rescuing. Obviously folks shouldn't be going more than 5km from home for exercise right now, but in a normal year I'd find this quite unfair.

I'm sure a certain proportion of these people are going out under equipped for the conditions with no mountaineering skills or knowledge - and that's to be very strongly discouraged in my view. It always irritates me when I'm out hiking and I see people on the hills in GAA shorts, runners and a schoolbag. Also to be condemed are those who dump their car whereever the feel like to start their walk.

But at the same time, I do dislike articles like this one, https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/mountain-rescue-teams-responding-to-needless-callouts-during-cold-snap-1.4455165 which make out that any use of the hills at this time of year is inappropriate and asking people never to go out in cold weather. 

To ask people never to go out is very unfair on those who have invested time and money in getting themselves to the right level to be able to go out. Articles like that one make out that they are being very irresponsible and I think that's very unfair on the sport/activity as a whole.

MY BAD

I suppose its depends on a few things. The experience of the people hiking, the equipment you have with you, where they are hiking, plus the weather conditions on the day and whats the forecast. I suspect many of those you are referring to are looking for that spectacular photo for Instagram. Taking a bigger risk this time of year particularly if you aren't experienced on the hills or mountains. If you do have an accident there may not be a ICU bed the way things are going. Worse you are putting the responders at risk too. As much as I love the mountains I tend to restrict my activities on them this time of the year.

hmmm

It's a difficult time, and I haven't figured out all the answers in my own head yet. I think at a minimum we (hikers/bikers etc.) have to reduce risk and operate well within our capabilities, and now is not the time to be pushing ourselves hard, but there is never no risk on a mountain - even the most experienced person can turn an ankle and you'll become a burden.

In my opinion if you're inexperienced or new to hiking you should not be in the mountains at the moment. Normally I'd be saying "join a club" and go out surrounded with experienced people, but they're not operating either. This is not a normal time, but it will pass.

We have to be careful also as people are looking for someone to blame for the spike in Covid cases (even though indoor activities were the driver), and outdoor activities make very visible targets. Throw in a lot of inexperienced people new to the mountains, a bit of rural/urban hostility, some ridiculous parking, the obvious issue of people breaking 5km limits, and it all gets very toxic in the media.

I don't personally think me staying off the mountains and joining the hordes walking around the streets is safer than going for a hike. I'm continuing to go for hikes but have dialled back my risk hugely - only walking on good tracks where I can reasonably self-rescue, slowing the speed down and staying well within my limits, heading out a quieter times. Normally at this time of year I'd have been all geared up for the Art O'Neill, but right now it's forest tracks and being thankful to be out at all.

spaceHopper

I left one Facebook page over the amount of “within my 5k” BS. They were taking to many chances or egging others on too, I call them “look at me posts”

I posted something along the lines of this.

During the first lock down the Coast Guard and RNLI asked people to says off the water, I surf and there was plenty of it on my doorstep which was unusual for Dublin. I respected their request – you might be an expert and have all the right gear but things can still go wrong. Also by posting about it on SM you are egging others on to do the same but might not be a skilled or have the right gear. If you need to get rescued then there will be at least 10 people involved in getting you to the ambulance.

I’m not saying don’t go out, just dial it back and stop posing on SM about it.

I’ve started to hike what’s on my doorstep I live by the start of the Dublin Mountains Way and go from my door for fitness and head space. I did give it a miss this weekend partially because of the ice but I’m also a close contact of a Covid case so had to restrict movements .

IAMAMORON

There is a lot of snow on high ground. It is energy sapping and it is also easier to twist something.

Keep to recognised trails if you have to.

I think the mejah hype things up also.

Responder XY

I might be in the same facebook group as you spaceHopper because I'm quite staggered at the amount of people who live within 5km of Lugnaquilla, Carrantuohill, Kipure and Croke Patrick. All those housing estates must have sprung up overnight since I last was at those places!

In all seriousness though, there's definitely a big issue with people heading up the hills and putting themselves and others at risk for a facebook picture. That said, I do think the media blowing it up is particularly unhelpful right now, it is possible to hike/climb safely and in a responsible way. I'd much prefer to see articles on what safe progression and learning on hiking is, with positive suggestions as to what routes inexperienced hikers might be able to take (and even suggested Instagram friendly stop offs!) rather than a blanket "don't do it you might die" type article.

Losty Dublin

Responder XY wrote: »

I might be in the same facebook group as you spaceHopper because I'm quite staggered at the amount of people who live within 5km of Lugnaquilla, Carrantuohill, Kipure and Croke Patrick. All those housing estates must have sprung up overnight since I last was at those places!

In all seriousness though, there's definitely a big issue with people heading up the hills and putting themselves and others at risk for a facebook picture...

If it's the same page that I am thinking of, it's moderators pre approve all and any new posts and threads on it. Clearly they care more about people posting "that photo" than anything as it's up to them to allow or to bin "that photo" threads.


Provided they are within 5KM of course :rolleyes::pac:

hmmm

I wouldn't be too harsh on them, no-one in the hiking community was prepared for a pandemic and everyone is doing their best. You have no end of advice as to what you should and shouldn't be doing, and everyone has a different opinion as to what is the right thing to do. It's easier when the government advice is very clear ("Within 5km or off to jail with you"), but a lot of the time it's more shades of grey.

I think in the long-run having more people out taking part in outdoor activities will benefit us all as it will give us more influence e.g. in things like funding for infrastructure or dealing with access issues. We just have to get through the short-term pain of lots of new inexperienced people and this effing virus.

CardinalJ

Responder XY wrote: »

So leaving aside the elephant in the room that is the 5km Covid restrictions - what are peoples thoughts on going into the hills during cold wintery weather like we've had over the past few weeks

Every time I see there is cold/snow forecast the first thing I do is look at the forecast for Lugnaquilla and go down.

Its all about actual risk V perceived risk.

I was down there on New Years Eve at 7.30am to start going up. GPS Watch, Map/Compass,(which I can use in poor visibility) proper footwear and an iceaxe, enough food for about 8 hours even though its a 4 hour trip, storm shelter and spare clothes. Ive been up Lug 20 or so times and took an easier route as I was alone. I don't think it was high risk.

When I was in the car park about to leave I met a couple who asked me about the 'path' to the top. It was maybe 12.30pm. They were planning a 4 ot 5 hour hike. They had decent boots but didnt have a bag, didnt have proper cold weather gear etc. They would have been finishing in darkness, assuming they didnt get lost. After a chat they decided it wasnt for them, but they would have gone up and without question got lost if theyd kept going. They would have been very high risk and had no business being up there in a decent wind, snow, fog etc.

Its all down to your own experience, but inexperience and excitement when there is snow gets the better of people.

I think a bit more signage in car parks to help educate people on Irish mountains in winter would be good.

Responder XY

Not hiking, but exactly the type of article I'm talking about popped up on my facebook feed today.

There's a very sensible point in there, not that you'd get it by reading the headline.

https://connachttribune.ie/daredevil-swimmers-are-a-fatality-waiting-to-happen/?fbclid=IwAR3qpm8y4QEsfbNaT4vzONT0LLZzHYWaigjeyow5NsTNb-Vqf3TXbtMPFKk

IAMAMORON

Responder XY wrote: »

Not hiking, but exactly the type of article I'm talking about popped up on my facebook feed today.

There's a very sensible point in there, not that you'd get it by reading the headline.

https://connachttribune.ie/daredevil-swimmers-are-a-fatality-waiting-to-happen/?fbclid=IwAR3qpm8y4QEsfbNaT4vzONT0LLZzHYWaigjeyow5NsTNb-Vqf3TXbtMPFKk

If it is not about hiking why did you post it here?

Responder XY

It is an "outdoor pursuit" - and showing the same attitude to outdoor activities that the article I originally posted about does!

IAMAMORON

Responder XY wrote: »

It is an "outdoor pursuit" - and showing the same attitude to outdoor activities that the article I originally posted about does!

Jumping off 40 foot diving boards in winter storms has nothing to do with people walking around mountains, at any time of the year.

What point are you trying to make exactly?

Responder XY

IAMAMORON wrote: »

What point are you trying to make exactly?

That the media are hyping up the risks associated with outdoor activities. There's a clear parallel between this and the hiking article. 

IAMAMORON

Responder XY wrote: »

That the media are hyping up the risks associated with outdoor activities. There's a clear parallel between this and the hiking article. 

Yes I think they are, as is their want.

But I do actually think that mad chunts jumping off 40 ft dives anywhere during storms are in a different level of danger to the odd hiker taking a trip up a local mountain.

Different gravy. The reality is that bashing hikers is at the far end of the curtain twitching scale. Albeit the weekend is coming and mountain car park traffic jams can be expected.

blackvalley

Hi Folks.
The post below is a copy of one I posted a few years back . Its a reminder of the way the conditions can change so quickly in the hills even in Summer . If I recall correctly this walk was in late Summer.
Stay safe.

Whats new you might ask ?. Well nothing really its just a reminder of how things can change so quickly over a few hundred meters. I am sure you are all aware of this but a reminder is no harm .
I had been planning to " do a night on Lug " for the past few months and last night was the night . ( yes I know your not supposed to camp on Lug).
Left from Fentons about 4.30 with the temperature about 20 degrees .A rout via Knickeen , Cavanaghs gap, Table ,Camenabologue and directly between Benaleg and Cannow got me to the cairn on Lug by about 8 .I was very surprised at the weather conditions there . Bright , sunny and bitterly cold with a biting south easterly wind. While putting up the tent I had to put on fleece , hat and bottom of my zip off pants. Even with this my fingers were numb by the time the tent was up . Dinner was prepared from the comfort of the sleeping bag while reaching out the door.
Overnight the wind got stronger and it was only the shelter of the cairn prevented it being blown away . Sufficent to say the night was spent rocking and rolling .A plan to take some picture of the sun rise failed as heavy driving fog / mist reduced visibility to about five meters. Once again breakfast was cooked from the sleeping bag .All the packing was done while still inside and it was only at the last moment I ventured outside to pull up the pegs ,ram the tent into the back pack and with the very valuable aid of GPS head straight down towards Camara hill .( and yes I also had map and compass ) . An hour and a half later having shed all but one layer along the way I reached Fentons with the beads of rain now replaced with beads of sweat. As I said an incredible change in conditions over a very short distance.
Forgive my long windedness but the moral of the story is to always be prepared for the worst and the most benign weather can have a nasty sting in the tail .
Stay safe out there and enjoy the hills.
blackvalley is offline Report Post

Posted this on the Carrauntoohil thread 10 days ago. It's running rather than hiking, but not too different in terms of dangers and challenges, same risky terrain, risky weather, distance from emergency services etc.

Went to run the Eastern Reeks last week, got to Cruach Mhór and turned back. Path wasn't visible under snow and boulders were like ice, the lugs on mountain runners really not up to it.

The 5km restrictions were brought in the following day, the temperatures have dropped further, and anyone out there now without the appropriate gear and experience is behaving recklessly.

Andrewf20

Myself and a friend climbed Conavalla near the Lug back in December. I love the idea of hiking in winter. It adds a bit of challenge & adventure.

Think it was 6 hours round trip. Weather was a little drizzly but calm with miles of visibility to start with. We parked at the Baravore cark park beside the river and hiked up. All was grand until when got on the domed top that had no trails. Our plan was to do a bit of a loop instead of an out and back (i.e. cut through the forest on the far right of the pic below, then head to the summit and come down to link up with the hairpin on the gravel road on the middle left).

By the time we got to the top there was probably 100m visibility in cloud with howling wind and rain, not a sinner around. Luckily we trusted our compass & map as our sense of direction was completely off. Using my intuition for the way back would have had us drift west instead of south, 90 degrees off course. I was getting a little spooked up there by 2pm, feeling lost for 15 minutes to no sign of the forest edge we were aiming for.

The whole trip was very enjoyable overall but it reminded me of how nasty and remote it can be up at altitude in winter.

It all comes down to prep and experience. But bad weather is grand once you have contingency. It wouldnt stop me doing similar again.