Employer withholding wages.

q0d53kbvsi6rgy

Hi Guys,

I'm in need of legal advice. I took a job in a national company that I was immediately unhappy with. During which time they berated me heavily and tried to force me to work through the holidays (the 24th to the 29th of December, every day) when I should of been on holidays till the 4th of January, therefore I walked out on the job immediately. I was told I would be paid fully until the 29th of December and to drop my key back. Unfortunately the office is quite a distance from my house and new social distancing laws came in which meant you couldn't legally travel more then 5KM from your home. Also I suffered a close family bereavement that meant I had to travel from Galway to Dublin. Today I received an email that the company are withholding my wages, and if I don't drop the key back by Monday (forcing me to break social distancing guidelines, travelling from Dublin to Galway) they will deduct the price of new locks from my wages and I will not get my wages till the key is dropped back. Is this legal to withhold and deduct from my wages in such a way? Thanks

manlad

Yisroel Wide Paycheck wrote: »

Hi Guys,

I'm in need of legal advice. I took a job in a national company that I was immediately unhappy with. During which time they berated me heavily and tried to force me to work through the holidays (the 24th to the 29th of December, every day) when I should of been on holidays till the 4th of January, therefore I walked out on the job immediately. I was told I would be paid fully until the 29th of December and to drop my key back. Unfortunately the office is quite a distance from my house and new social distancing laws came in which meant you couldn't legally travel more then 5KM from your home. Also I suffered a close family bereavement that meant I had to travel from Galway to Dublin. Today I received an email that the company are withholding my wages, and if I don't drop the key back by Monday (forcing me to break social distancing guidelines, travelling from Dublin to Galway) they will deduct the price of new locks from my wages and I will not get my wages till the key is dropped back. Is this legal to withhold and deduct from my wages in such a way? Thanks

I doubt this, unless specified in your contract of employment.

Just get the key couriered back?

mistress_gi

Yisroel Wide Paycheck wrote: »

Hi Guys,

I'm in need of legal advice. I took a job in a national company that I was immediately unhappy with. During which time they berated me heavily and tried to force me to work through the holidays (the 24th to the 29th of December, every day) when I should of been on holidays till the 4th of January, therefore I walked out on the job immediately. I was told I would be paid fully until the 29th of December and to drop my key back. Unfortunately the office is quite a distance from my house and new social distancing laws came in which meant you couldn't legally travel more then 5KM from your home. Also I suffered a close family bereavement that meant I had to travel from Galway to Dublin. Today I received an email that the company are withholding my wages, and if I don't drop the key back by Monday (forcing me to break social distancing guidelines, travelling from Dublin to Galway) they will deduct the price of new locks from my wages and I will not get my wages till the key is dropped back. Is this legal to withhold and deduct from my wages in such a way? Thanks

Would they would accept you posting the keys back considering level 5?

Uncle Pierre

Just to try get the full story...I'm curious as to how you "should have been on holidays until January 4th", if you'd only just taken up the job?

Also, when did you actually walk out? If prior to December 29th - as it appears to be - then seems strange that they'd offer to pay you up to date. Maybe they meant they'd just pay for work actually done during a pay period ending on December 29th?

As regards the key - when exactly did they ask you to drop it back? Again, would appear to be prior to December 29th, while the 5km restriction wasn't yet in place. But even so, as previous poster said, just post it back or have it couriered.

Whatever about the legalities of withholding wages, the company's point of view here would probably be along the lines of here's somebody who had only just been taken on, immediately threw the toys out of the pram over not being given extended holidays over Christmas and New Year, and has so far failed to return a key, with obvious associated security issues.

q0d53kbvsi6rgy

manlad wrote: »

I doubt this, unless specified in your contract of employment.

Just get the key couriered back?

The problem is I don't think I'd be able to post it back in time, I'm somewhat preoccupied with a funeral at the minute. It did specify in my contract that any property belonging to the company can lead to deduction and with holding of wages. Truthfully I didn't read it correctly before singing it, I only realised it today. Although it was my understanding that employers could under no circumstances withhold your wages.

q0d53kbvsi6rgy

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

Just to try get the full story...I'm curious as to how you "should have been on holidays until January 4th", if you'd only just taken up the job?

Also, when did you actually walk out? If prior to December 29th - as it appears to be - then seems strange that they'd offer to pay you up to date. Maybe they meant they'd just pay for work actually done during a pay period ending on December 29th?

As regards the key - when exactly did they ask you to drop it back? Again, would appear to be prior to December 29th, while the 5km restriction wasn't yet in place. But even so, as previous poster said, just post it back or have it couriered.

Whatever about the legalities of withholding wages, the company's point of view here would probably be along the lines of here's somebody who had only just been taken on, immediately threw the toys out of the pram over not being given extended holidays over Christmas and New Year, and has so far failed to return a key, with obvious associated security issues.

Hi Pierre. I graduated college in August couldn't find a job and then early December I got a job with this company due to a friend of mine who worked there briefly. I'm the fourth person in a row to walk out of the after a short period of time, the previous person lasted a whole two days. The company although I will not mention them are well known for not paying people.

When I took the job they were desperate to find someone and I was desperate for a job. It was only a few days in when I realised why they had such poor luck with employees. These holidays were agreed upon in my contract beforehand and verbally agreed on my first day. The office itself was closed until January fourth.

I walked out prior to December fourth and they emailed me saying I will be paid in full till December 29th, I have emails to prove this. The keys were to be returned January fourth when the office was to be re-opened, Ireland was placed in level 5 restrictions on December 24th, when I was at home celebrating Christmas with my family.

You can't deny the legal importance. I had my reasons for walking out and I wasn't the only person that did. Why would I stay in a job I'm miserable in, that are treating me badly? Would you? By the sounds of things you're the type that went to the university of hard knocks on Facebook.

GerardKeating

Yisroel Wide Paycheck wrote: »

Unfortunately the office is quite a distance from my house and new social distancing laws came in which meant you couldn't legally travel more then 5KM from your home.

Not exactly true, the 5km limit is for exercise, you can travel further for other essential reasons, for example we do not have a pharmacy, hardware store or petrol station in our 5km circle, but we do have an airport...

Yisroel Wide Paycheck wrote: »

Also I suffered a close family bereavement that meant I had to travel from Galway to Dublin.

Sorry to hear of your loss,

Yisroel Wide Paycheck wrote: »

Today I received an email that the company are withholding my wages, and if I don't drop the key back by Monday (forcing me to break social distancing guidelines, travelling from Dublin to Galway) they will deduct the price of new locks from my wages and I will not get my wages till the key is dropped back. Is this legal to withhold and deduct from my wages in such a way? Thanks

Have you explained to them your circumstances, and your recent loss?

You can see (from their point of view) the seriousness of an former employee have keys to the office.

Offer to send the keys via registered post or facilicate them with a courier pickup.

Uncle Pierre

Yisroel Wide Paycheck wrote: »

The problem is I don't think I'd be able to post it back in time, I'm somewhat preoccupied with a funeral at the minute. It did specify in my contract that any property belonging to the company can lead to deduction and with holding of wages. Truthfully I didn't read it correctly before singing it, I only realised it today. Although it was my understanding that employers could under no circumstances withhold your wages.

You've got your answer there. Legal for an employer to withhold or make deductions from wages in certain circumstances, including if it's provided for in the contract of employment.

And while I'm sorry to hear of your bereavement, the timeline of this thing really doesn't seem to stack up. Your OP suggests you walked out on the job before Christmas because they wouldn't give you the holidays they wanted. That would have left plenty of time to return the key before the 5km restriction kicked in, and before the bereavement occurred.

Even so, if you've got the key with you, just try your best to get to the Post Office sometime tomorrow or even Monday. You can ask for a certificate of postage that you can send the company a picture of, to show it's on the way and that they should at least get it Tuesday or Wednesday. Or even send it registered post. Hopefully either of those options would be good enough to satisfy them.

q0d53kbvsi6rgy

GerardKeating wrote: »

Not exactly true, the 5km limit is for exercise, you can travel further for other essential reasons, for example we do not have a pharmacy, hardware store or petrol station in our 5km circle, but we do have an airport...



Sorry to hear of your loss,



Have you explained to them your circumstances, and your recent loss?

You can see (from their point of view) the seriousness of an former employee have keys to the office.

Offer to send the keys via registered post or facilicate them with a courier pickup.

Yeah I get the situation from your point of view, also I appreciate your kind words. I emailed them today explaining my loss, and explaining I'm Dublin rather then in Galway where the office is. They didn't care much for the situation and said the keys must be returned by Monday. I do not feel this is an essential reason for travel and feel I would be in trouble with the Guards if I were stopped. Also there is the inconvenience of travel. Also I do understand the seriousness of me having access to the office and being a former employee.

talulon

Your story doesn't add up at all.

Registered letter with AnPost is 8 euro and done in 5 minutes, you probably spent longer in this forum.

Uncle Pierre

Yisroel Wide Paycheck wrote: »

Hi Pierre. I graduated college in August couldn't find a job and then early December I got a job with this company due to a friend of mine who worked there briefly. I'm the fourth person in a row to walk out of the after a short period of time, the previous person lasted a whole two days. The company although I will not mention them are well known for not paying people.

When I took the job they were desperate to find someone and I was desperate for a job. It was only a few days in when I realised why they had such poor luck with employees. These holidays were agreed upon in my contract beforehand and verbally agreed on my first day. The office itself was closed until January fourth.

I walked out prior to December fourth and they emailed me saying I will be paid in full till December 29th, I have emails to prove this. The keys were to be returned January fourth when the office was to be re-opened, Ireland was placed in level 5 restrictions on December 24th, when I was at home celebrating Christmas with my family.

You can't deny the legal importance. I had my reasons for walking out and I wasn't the only person that did. Why would I stay in a job I'm miserable in, that are treating me badly? Would you? By the sounds of things you're the type that went to the university of hard knocks on Facebook.

Was writing my previous post as you posted this. You've got your answer about withholding wages anyway, since it was specified in your contract of employment.

There's still much I don't understand, such as why a company would agree to give you those holidays when you'd only just joined, and hadn't built up any holiday entitlement yet. Still confused too over being paid "in full" until December 29th, particularly if you walked out on December 4th. And if you walked out prior to December 4th, then you had at least three weeks to return the key even before the Christmas office closedown?

By the way, as regards your closing remark...I'm nearly 50 years old and I dare say I've had a lot more hard knocks than you, since you're probably only about half my age. I've seen these things from both sides...both as employee who believes he's been treated unfairly, and as a manager in a company who has to deal with an employee throwing a strop. It's not all from Facebook, you know!

salmocab

You started the job early December and walked out December 4th? Then they said they’d pay you until the 29th of December? Something not right there.

Uncle Pierre

Honestly, if you've got the key with you, just post it back, preferably by registered post. They'll have it early next week and will hopefully turn a blind eye to how it was a day or two late in the end. And even if they don't, the fact that you'll then be able to show you at least made some effort to return it will stand to you if you do end up having to take some action over unpaid wages. But quite frankly, mooching around on Boards saying you can't get to the Post Office won't be any help to you at all.

Idle Passerby

I think your being a bit petulant. You quit soon after starting. Whether your reasons we're legitimate or not, you left on bad terms. You didn't bother to read your contract and now your throwing a strop because they are upholding the contract you didn't read. Lockdown and funeral are unfortunate but you agreed to the terms so you have nothing to complain about. Just put the key in the post and be done with it.

If you agreed to it in your contract, then they can do it.

If its just a key in a standard sized envelope Parcel Direct will collect it from you and courier it to Dublin for about a tenner.

That's what I'd do.

(I'm finding An Post very slow at the moment - a letter posted to me from Louth on Monday gone still hasn't arrived today.)

q0d53kbvsi6rgy

salmocab wrote: »

You started the job early December and walked out December 4th? Then they said they’d pay you until the 29th of December? Something not right there.

Apologies I made a mistake on the dates. I received word of the job December third, did an interview the fourth and started December 14th. I walked out on the 27th of December, they agreed to pay me till the 29th

talulon

Yisroel Wide Paycheck wrote: »

Apologies I made a mistake on the dates. I received word of the job December third, did an interview the fourth and started December 14th. I walked out on the 27th of December, they agreed to pay me till the 29th

so they agree to pay you for extra 2 days and still asking for legal advise here (not at all the place to go) on whether it's ok or not? Come on, just post that key back.

Uncle Pierre

Yisroel Wide Paycheck wrote: »

Apologies I made a mistake on the dates. I received word of the job December third, did an interview the fourth and started December 14th. I walked out on the 27th of December, they agreed to pay me till the 29th

Well, that timeline at least makes a bit more sense

Issue remains that they still need to get the key back, though. The Parcel Direct suggestion is a good one too. Basically, anything at all where you'll be able to show the date you arranged to have it sent to them, and ideally how you can track it on its journey. Honestly, it'll stand to you in the end.

Dark Phoenix

Honestly just give back the key you have spent more time on here about it than it would have taken to drop it post it back.
You can travel for essential reasons and for work so just drop the key back it’s a work related reason for travel. You had plenty of time to post it ir courier it if dropping it off is such an issue for you from 29th Dec to 4th January is perfectly reasonable amount of time to have had it back to the company in person / by post / by courier. I completely understand the company not paying you while you potentially compromise their security by refusing to give their key back as it will cost them money if you keep this up and they have to change locks / replace keys.
As for the original issue who joins a company on the 14th Dec and demands the 24th to 29th off? Only the 25th 26th and 1st jan are statutory days and a company can ask you to work those and give days off in lieu

daheff

So before you go post the key back, is there somebody at the office to accept it? No point sending it if the office is now closed because of lockdown.

Might be helpful to get in touch with them to suggest posting the key....show you are trying. It'll buy you a bit more time to return it.

Mrs OBumble

Dark Phoenix wrote: »

As for the original issue who joins a company on the 14th Dec and demands the 24th to 29th off? Only the 25th 26th and 1st jan are statutory days and a company can ask you to work those and give days off in lieu

Someone who finished college in August and hasn't worked since

Either entitlement has reached a new high or the whole thread is a wind up.

_Brian

Dropping the key back would be considered "work related" and as such isnt covered in the 5K limit..

Your just making excuses OP..

You having a key compromise the security of the premise and you will be charged for new locks if you don't cop on and make an effort to return the key..

Uncle Pierre

OP has been quiet here since the first day, so hopefully he's got the message and will just return the key by some means or other.

Good luck to him in finding another job soon, that might suit him better.

Purple Mountain

Why didn't you arrange for the key to be posted or couriered since December 27th?
It's now January 11th.