Breaching employment contract

Shazforgrub

Hi,

I have a 3 month notice period in my contract. I've accepted a new job offer (with much better terms conditions) and they are pushing me to start sooner. My current employer is refusing a reduced notice period, and they are making life difficult for me ever since I handed in my notice.

I would like to just leave, but without agreement that would be breaching my contract. As far as I'm aware all they can really do is take out an injunction against me to stop me working in my new role. Also, they are unlikely to give me a good reference down the line, but based on the current vibes I think that ship has sailed anyway.

Has anyone else any experience of a similar situation?

Jim2007

Shazforgrub wrote: »

As far as I'm aware all they can really do is take out an injunction against me to stop me working in my new role.

In theory I suppose, but unless it's got very personal and they are will to pay for it, I would have thought it unlikely.

Shazforgrub

Jim2007 wrote: »

In theory I suppose, but unless it's got very personal and they are will to pay for it, I would have thought it unlikely.

Would it cost them a lot of money? If so they probably wouldn't pay for it.

I was surprised at how personally they are taking it, as I had a pretty good working relationship with them until now.

Misguided1

Contractually you would certainly be in breach of contract. But they are unlikely to take any legal action against you.
You certainly won't get a reference. I would advise you to think long and hard about what you do.

Ireland is small and the chances of paths crossing again are big. You old manager/employer could become your new employer in the future.
I don't know what industry you work in but if you told your new employer at the outset that you had a 3 month notice period, then they knew there would be a chance you would have to see out the 3 months. it is very common practice. Also think about the message it gives to your new employer if they figure out that you breached your contract with your old one. Just worth thinking it through

Jim2007

Jim2007 wrote: »

In theory I suppose, but unless it's got very personal and they are will to pay for it, I would have thought it unlikely.

In 30+ years, I’ve never heard of an employer doing it. I’ve heard a few small family run companies suggest they were going to do it... but that is all. I’d imagine it would cost a couple of thousand...

Jim2007

Ireland is small and the chances of paths crossing again are big. You old manager/employer could become your new employer in the future.

It is easy to forget you can end up with a reference from any of your work colleagues. It’s not unusual for an employer to ask someone they knew who worked in the same firm as you, if they knew you.

1hnr79jr65

Assuming you explained to new employer about 3 month notice period, they were ok with this when you were offered job ? why push to start earlier now ?

Given your current employer has 3 month notice period, why they making it difficult for you ? Are you on negative terms before giving notice or this a reaction ? Have they tried counter offering or asked you why you leaving ?

Snotty

Assuming you have other references already and you are secure in the knowledge that you are suitable and able for the new role, then just leave, life's to short to stay in roles where they are making your life hard

Shazforgrub

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

Assuming you explained to new employer about 3 month notice period, they were ok with this when you were offered job ? why push to start earlier now ?

Given your current employer has 3 month notice period, why they making it difficult for you ? Are you on negative terms before giving notice or this a reaction ? Have they tried counter offering or asked you why you leaving ?

I rather foolishly told my new employer that I was confident I could get my notice period reduced. I have leave to take, and they left someone else (same level as me) use their leave in lieu of notice previously. The new company is under pressure to get this role filled as far as I'm aware.

I was on good terms before giving notice. They tried to make a counter offer but it is not just about money, there is a pretty toxic culture at the company and I've wanted to leave with a while.

Shazforgrub

Misguided1 wrote: »

Contractually you would certainly be in breach of contract. But they are unlikely to take any legal action against you.
You certainly won't get a reference. I would advise you to think long and hard about what you do.

Ireland is small and the chances of paths crossing again are big. You old manager/employer could become your new employer in the future.
I don't know what industry you work in but if you told your new employer at the outset that you had a 3 month notice period, then they knew there would be a chance you would have to see out the 3 months. it is very common practice. Also think about the message it gives to your new employer if they figure out that you breached your contract with your old one. Just worth thinking it through

I know, I have been thinking a lot (and stressing a lot!) about the decision. I'm probably looking into it more than I need to but I feel like I'm caught between trying to get off to a good start at the new job and not pissing off my old employer...

Mrs OBumble

Shazforgrub wrote: »

... and they are making life difficult for me ever since I handed in my notice.

Very foolish of them, if they want you to serve your notice.

Give them a choice: either you start a grievance procedure (let it be known that youv'e been talking to a solicitor about this) about what they've been doing recently - or they agree to you finishing early.

1hnr79jr65

What Mrs OBumble said is a very good point to follow. Also you could get a doctors note for work related stress for how you have been treated since handing in notice and go work for new employer that way.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Very foolish of them, if they want you to serve your notice.

Give them a choice: either you start a grievance procedure (let it be known that youv'e been talking to a solicitor about this) about what they've been doing recently - or they agree to you finishing early.

Why would an employer be concerned about a solicitor in this situation? The max redress would be pay until notice expires, it may cost the op more in legal fees.

In reality op, apart from issues with a reference, there isn’t a lot your employer can/would do if you leave before the end of your notice.

California Dreamer

Misguided1 wrote: »

Ireland is small and the chances of paths crossing again are big. You old manager/employer could become your new employer in the future.

I genuinely think that this line is peddled about by all employers for years.

We are no longer living in the 1950s where you had one job for life and be dammed if you leave for something else.

Today workforces are leaving all the time and if your current employer cannot give you a reason to stay, move on as quickly as you can.

You old and new employer may be the same person in the future but the chances of that really are slim.

The White Wolf

California Dreamer wrote: »

I genuinely think that this line is peddled about by all employers for years.

We are no longer living in the 1950s where you had one job for life and be dammed if you leave for something else.

Today workforces are leaving all the time and if your current employer cannot give you a reason to stay, move on as quickly as you can.

You old and new employer may be the same person in the future but the chances of that really are slim.

In a world where mergers and takeovers are becoming the norm, depending on the industry then yes the world can get very small.

OP it sounds like poor form on the behalf of your new employer if they're pressuring you to break your notice. Even if they weren't aware I'm not sure what exactly they expect you to do and if the situation was reversed, you can guarantee they'd be absolutely fuming. Not a good indicator from a new employer anyway.

Just say you looked into the possibility of breaking your notice and the penalties involved would be severe.. I'm sorry that they're also making life difficult for you since you handed in your notice, assuming you'll be doing an exit interview I'd be letting them know about this.

California Dreamer

The White Wolf wrote: »

In a world where mergers and takeovers are becoming the norm, depending on the industry then yes the world can get very small.

I'm sorry that they're also making life difficult for you since you handed in your notice, assuming you'll be doing an exit interview I'd be letting them know about this.

I suppose so about the mergers but then again if you are good enough and in demand then it won't really matter. As for exit interviews, do they really care about these? Nothing is going to change if you are leaving a toxic work space.

California Dreamer

California Dreamer wrote: »

I genuinely think that this line is peddled about by all employers for years.

We are no longer living in the 1950s where you had one job for life and be dammed if you leave for something else.

Today workforces are leaving all the time and if your current employer cannot give you a reason to stay, move on as quickly as you can.

You old and new employer may be the same person in the future but the chances of that really are slim.

It has never been easier, nor more important to check references. The cost associated with hiring (and firing) the wrong employee can be crippling for some businesses. I have been contacted a number of times about former employees, I always make a call about new applicants, the most important question “would you hire this person again?” is a killer.

California Dreamer

Dav010 wrote: »

It has never been easier, nor more important to check references. The cost associated with hiring (and firing) the wrong employee can be crippling for some businesses. I have been contacted a number of times about former employees, I always make a call about new applicants, the most important question “would you hire this person again?” is a killer.

I suppose different industries carry different criteria. There are some that are so desperately short that they will be hired because there is a skill shortage and employees just move on if they don't like the company or one of their fellow workers.

What you say may be true but I am only going on my own experience.

California Dreamer

California Dreamer wrote: »

I suppose different industries carry different criteria. There are some that are so desperately short that they will be hired because there is a skill shortage and employees just move on if they don't like the company or one of their fellow workers.

What you say may be true but I am only going on my own experience.

Unfortunately past experience does not guarantee future events. It might not happen to everyone, but when it does happen, it can be the difference between success or failure.

In this day and age, I am surprised to hear that employers are willing to employ “anyone” rather than checking the applicants.

California Dreamer

Dav010 wrote: »

In this day and age, I am surprised to hear that employers are willing to employ “anyone” rather than checking the applicants.

My experience has shown me the opposite. :rolleyes:

Shazforgrub

The White Wolf wrote: »

In a world where mergers and takeovers are becoming the norm, depending on the industry then yes the world can get very small.

OP it sounds like poor form on the behalf of your new employer if they're pressuring you to break your notice. Even if they weren't aware I'm not sure what exactly they expect you to do and if the situation was reversed, you can guarantee they'd be absolutely fuming. Not a good indicator from a new employer anyway.

Just say you looked into the possibility of breaking your notice and the penalties involved would be severe.. I'm sorry that they're also making life difficult for you since you handed in your notice, assuming you'll be doing an exit interview I'd be letting them know about this.

Thanks, thats a fair point.