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EV savings calculator

  • 05-01-2021 3:43pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,789 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    Hi all,


    I created an EV savings estimation spreadsheet way back and have finally gotten around to putting it on Google Drive. It can also handle PHEVs, you just need to estimate the amount of electric only driving you'll be doing



    I'm posting it below for anyone to play around with, feel free to download and put in your own vehicles of choice to see what happens


    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qGwIu7yxVMcWCsHKKFwV267731m_jYMnpQOyt6qrAP8/edit?usp=sharing


    I think it'd also be interesting to see what results we get. For me, changing from the Toyota Auris to a Nissan Leaf yielded a savings of nearly €1000. Compared to a brand new diesel Golf, the savings were maintained


    • Maintenance was an estimate based on annual servicing only plus expected consumables
    • Insurance was based on quotes I got for myself with the cheapest provider I could find
    • Tolls are estimated using an included calculator
    • Electricity rates were the cheapest on bonkers.ie
    • DC charging rate is based on the ESB rates
    • Motor tax is the acutal rate for each vehicle



    |Toyota Auris|VW Golf 2.0 TDI|Nissan Leaf 24kWh|VW ID.4
    Annual milage (km)|12500|12500|12500|12500
    Annual electric driving (km)|0|0|12500|12500
    Electric economy (kWh/100km)|16.8|16.8|16.8|22.5
    Annual conbined driving (km)|12500|12500|0|0
    Combined fuel ecomony (l/100km)|6|5.6|0|3.5
    Charger losses|15.00%|15.00%|15.00%|15.00%
    DC Charging Percentage (%)|0.00%|0.00%|0.00%|0.00%
    Total Electricity used (kWh)|0|0|2100|2812.5
    Domestic Electricity used (kWh)|0|0|2100|2812.5
    DC Charging Electricity used (kWh)|0|0|0|0
    Fuel used (l)|750|700|0|0
    ||||
    Home Electricity cost (€/kWh)|0.0693|0.0693|0.0693|0.0693
    DC Charge Electricity cost (€/kWh)|0.3|0.3|0.3|0.3
    Fuel cost (€/l)|1.26|1.26|1.26|1.26
    ||||
    ||||
    Annual costs||||
    Maintenance|155|200|169|85
    NCT|55|0|27.5|0
    Fuel/Electricity|945|882|145.53|194.90625
    Tolls|1500|1500|1500|1500
    Insurance|400|537|436|449
    Tax|280|200|120|120
    ||||
    TOTAL|3335|3319|2398.03|2348.90625
    EV savings|||920.97|970.09375


Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,818 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Thanks for sharing, hopefully it will open people's eyes. A few points of, hopefully constructive, criticism:

    1. why do you not allow for discount on tolls for EV / PHEV? If you spend €1500, you more than likely get the full max discount of €500 for an EV

    2. why use such a small annual mileage? The average car in Ireland does about 17k km, but I guess that figure is from before COVID. The more miles you do, the more you save with an EV. People with a daily commute just within the range fo the car save many thousands per year in fuel alone

    3. you should compare new cars, not new cars to second hand cars. So get rid of the NCT costs

    4. by far the biggest cost of any new car is the depreciation. Yet depreciation doesn't feature in your spreadsheet :D

    5. charger losses are in the order of 10%, not 15%

    6. very few EV owners only ever charge at home, at night rate. You need to allow for much more expensive fast charging. And maybe an option for people who regularly charge for free (publicly or at work)

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,593 ✭✭✭✭ ted1


    1.26 is very cheap for petrol


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,789 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    unkel wrote: »
    Thanks for sharing, hopefully it will open people's eyes. A few points of, hopefully constructive, criticism:

    1. why do you not allow for discount on tolls for EV / PHEV? If you spend €1500, you more than likely get the full max discount of €500 for an EV

    2. why use such a small annual mileage? The average car in Ireland does about 17k km, but I guess that figure is from before COVID. The more miles you do, the more you save with an EV. People with a daily commute just within the range fo the car save many thousands per year in fuel alone

    3. you should compare new cars, not new cars to second hand cars. So get rid of the NCT costs

    4. by far the biggest cost of any new car is the depreciation. Yet depreciation doesn't feature in your spreadsheet :D

    5. charger losses are in the order of 10%, not 15%

    6. very few EV owners only ever charge at home, at night rate. You need to allow for much more expensive fast charging. And maybe an option for people who regularly charge for free (publicly or at work)

    Thanks for all the suggestions, I'll try to include as many as I can.

    Yeah I only just added the toll calculator so it probably needs some work

    Some of the figures are based on my own driving, I'm a fairly low road user hence the low mileage. You can put in any mileage and it'll update the calculation

    The public charging calculator is pretty coarse, you basically put in a rough percentage of how much charging you do at fast chargers and the average rate. For most people I'd say this wouldn't go beyond 5% but for long distance drivers it could be closer to 30% I reckon

    At the moment it only does running costs but I'll see if I can add a TCO calculator which includes depreciation and finance costs. It's a bit tricky to figure out PCP costs so it'll take a bit of time

    I originally made it to convince my wife to go electric (still hasn't worked) hence the comparisons to ICE cars. With a bit of luck, anyone debating an EV can get a clear picture of the savings


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,789 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    ted1 wrote: »
    1.26 is very cheap for petrol

    Lockdown prices, I probably need to update that one. Goes to show even when petrol is cheap it's still expensive compared to electricity


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,919 ✭✭✭✭ Calahonda52


    Nice piece of work.
    I wouldn't get too hung up on deprecation because the focus here is on the savings made, or not made, as the case may be so its differential, as opposed to absolute pricing/costs that matter so if the cars cost about the same and the depreciation rates are pretty much the same then no drama.
    Clearly a yaris vs a tesla is a different animal.

    In any event Unkel seems to have the midas touch of never suffering depreciation on any of his transport assets: cars, pedal bikes, elec bikes, e-scooters and prams They have always appreciated, just by what I have seen here over the years, compounded by the fact that the rest of us have just paid too much:D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭ sk8board


    As someone mentioned, the depreciation is the biggest cost of all, and that 24kwh Leaf depreciated like a rock.
    Really what you’ve shown very clearly is that if you drive 12,500 km pa, you’re fuel cost will be €950 on ICE and about €200 on EV assuming you never use a public charger.
    Those number converge quite quickly if someone is using public chargers


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,818 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    I wouldn't get too hung up on deprecation because the focus here is on the savings made

    Are you joking? Depreciation is almost always by far the biggest cost of owning a car. And generally speaking, most EVs of recent years will have had less depreciation than similar petrols / diesels. Making a €1000 saving on depreciation is far easier than making a €100 saving on fuel.

    It is of course much harder to predict than any of the other costs of owning a car...

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭ sk8board


    Nice piece of work.
    I wouldn't get too hung up on deprecation because the focus here is on the savings made,

    Ah here. It’s a complete misconception that depreciation doesn’t matter.
    My 420d gran coupe cost me about €1,500 pa over the past 5 years.

    €400 insurance
    €800 diesel (avg 10k km’s pa)
    €200 tax
    €100 maintenance (5 years for €500).

    Great right?! except for the small matter that I paid €56k new and it’s worth €20k on a trade in today, that’s €7k pa avg depreciation.

    I don’t know about you, but I’m pretty sure that matters.

    Folks with car loans on 6-9% interest rates will be spending even more over that period.

    EVs are not just a comparison of fuel costs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,789 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    sk8board wrote: »
    As someone mentioned, the depreciation is the biggest cost of all, and that 24kwh Leak depreciated like a rock.
    Really what you’ve shown very clearly is that if you drive 12,500 km pa, you’re fuel cost will be €950 on ICE abs about €200 on EV assuming you never use a public charger.
    Those number converge white quickly if someone is using public chargers

    You'd be surprised, I did the maths for a neighbour who drives a stupid obnoxious pickup truck and does huge mileage against an ID.4

    It worked out at over €5k savings, not taking into account the BIK savings because it's a company vehicle. And frankly I think €300 per year in maintenance is a low figure, it could easily double that on average over 3 years with that mileage

    Even at 100% fast charging, it's still over €4k savings.


    I mean, when you can take the family to Disneyland twice a year and still have money left over, it's hard to argue that ICE vehicles are good value


    |Stupid pickup|VW ID4 77kWh
    Annual milage (km)|50000|50000
    Annual electric driving (km)|0|50000
    Electric economy (kWh/100km)|22.5|22.5
    Annual conbined driving (km)|50000|0
    Combined fuel ecomony (l/100km)|9|0
    Charger losses|10.00%|10.00%
    DC Charging Percentage (%)|0.00%|30.00%
    Total Electricity used (kWh)|0|11250
    Domestic Electricity used (kWh)|0|7875
    DC Charging Electricity used (kWh)|0|3375
    Fuel used (l)|4500|0
    ||
    Home Electricity cost (€/kWh)|0.0693|0.0693
    DC Charge Electricity cost (€/kWh)|0.3|0.3
    Fuel cost (€/l)|1.26|1.26
    ||
    ||
    Annual costs||
    Maintenance|300|85
    NCT|0|0
    Fuel/Electricity|5670|1558.2375
    Tolls|1430|715
    Insurance|400|449
    Tax|750|120
    ||
    TOTAL|8550|2927.2375
    EV savings||5622.7625


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,028 ✭✭✭ Lantus


    The biggest cost is the vehicle and interest paid on a loan. Until that's included it's a skewed saving calculator as an ev can often be an expensive purchase for many.

    A lot of new evs are in the 40k range. Id4 for example.

    Total cost of ownership is the only honest and real cost.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,789 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    Lantus wrote: »
    The biggest cost is the vehicle and interest paid on a loan. Until that's included it's a skewed saving calculator as an ev can often be an expensive purchase for many.

    A lot of new evs are in the 40k range. Id4 for example.

    Total cost of ownership is the only honest and real cost.

    Well it is a running costs calculator, not a TCO calculator


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,818 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    sk8board wrote: »
    Folks with car loans on 6-9% interest rates will be spending even more over that period.

    Indeed. Finance cost or the opportunity cost of money are often the second biggest cost of owning a car. Concentrating on the two main costs is where you can save money.

    Not whether you are on 7c or 9c night rate. Or whether your EV averages 14kWh / 100km or 28kWh / 100km. Or your diesel car does 45MPG or 55MPG (unless you do a huge mileage)

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,789 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    unkel wrote: »
    Indeed. Finance cost or the opportunity cost of money are often the second biggest cost of owning a car. Concentrating on the two main costs is where you can save money.

    Not whether you are on 7c or 9c night rate. Or whether your EV averages 14kWh / 100km or 28kWh / 100km. Or your diesel car does 45MPG or 55MPG (unless you do a huge mileage)

    I agree for the most part, but in a lot of cases people who are looking at buying a car are going to be going into some finance deal anyway.

    So if someone is debating an ID.4 or a high spec diesel Tiguan, I imagine it'd be a compelling argument to say the ID.4 has considerable savings in running costs which would take some of the pain out of those monthly payments


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,818 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    I agree for the most part, but in a lot of cases people who are looking at buying a car are going to be going into some finance deal anyway.

    Big mistake. Well, I guess if people want a new car, but can't afford it, they got to finance it somehow. No issue with that, but it will cost them dearly. No problem with that either, it's their money (or not :D) so they can do with it what they want.

    But in many cases it's penny wise, pound foolish to look at 1c/km fuel saving comparisons when you've just borrowed a 5 figure sum to get a car. Or worse, just rent it (PCP) and it isn't even yours.

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,789 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    unkel wrote: »
    Big mistake. Well, I guess if people want a new car, but can't afford it, they got to finance it somehow. No issue with that, but it will cost them dearly. No problem with that either, it's their money (or not :D) so they can do with it what they want.

    But in many cases it's penny wise, pound foolish to look at 1c/km fuel saving comparisons when you've just borrowed a 5 figure sum to get a car. Or worse, just rent it (PCP) and it isn't even yours.

    Ah but whoever said buying a car was a logical choice and not an emotional one :D


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