Importing cars from UK, post Brexit

Infernal Racket

Not sure if a thread has been started yet on this but does anyone know, or is it still to early to know exactly what extra cost will be added to importing a vehicle from the UK. I've imported lots of cars pre Brexit but I have no idea what the new procedure or costs entail?

Infernal Racket

I've looked on the Revenue site and it's all just jargon to me. No clear instructions that I can see other than having to pay an import tax on. Now this import tax is waived if bringing a car in from Northern Ireland. Can I fly to the UK, buy a car, get a ferry to Northern Ireland and drive down thus avoiding the import tax?

The J Stands for Jay

Infernal Racket wrote: »

I've looked on the Revenue site and it's all just jargon to me. No clear instructions that I can see other than having to pay an import tax on. Now this import tax is waived if bringing a car in from Northern Ireland. Can I fly to the UK, buy a car, get a ferry to Northern Ireland and drive down thus avoiding the import tax?

I was wondering about that. If I buy a British reg car in NI, how do I prove it shouldn't have import tax? Is it based on the receipt being from a NI dealer?

Atlantic Dawn

For a used car (over 6 months old), VAT only applies if car was purchased in UK, if purchased in Northern Ireland it doesn't apply.

I'm unsure if you purchased a car privately from Northern Ireland and the owner details on the V5/logbook referred to an address in the UK whether that would be subject to VAT because it would appear as a direct UK import, possibly.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/customs-traders-and-agents/brexit/brexit-for-individuals/importing-a-vehicle-from-great-britain-gb-or-northern-ireland.aspx

Infernal Racket

McGaggs wrote: »

I was wondering about that. If I buy a British reg car in NI, how do I prove it shouldn't have import tax? Is it based on the receipt being from a NI dealer?

And if you buy privately there will be no receipt so how is that going to work? It's all very unclear

Browney7

Infernal Racket wrote: »

And if you buy privately there will be no receipt so how is that going to work? It's all very unclear

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/registration-of-imported-used-vehicles/vehicles-imported-from-gb-and-ni.aspx bit more here. Looks to registration plate based in that case

grogi

Infernal Racket wrote: »

I've looked on the Revenue site and it's all just jargon to me. No clear instructions that I can see other than having to pay an import tax on. Now this import tax is waived if bringing a car in from Northern Ireland. Can I fly to the UK, buy a car, get a ferry to Northern Ireland and drive down thus avoiding the import tax?

No. Bringing the NI registered car here requires only VRT, but bringing GB car also requires VAT. I don't know exactly how it works in NI, but it would make sense that importing car from GB to NI also requires VAT payment.

NI remains in European market and all goods entering NI from GB are subject to VAT. There are very few exceptions AFAIK, but probably are completely irrelevant to this discussion.

Infernal Racket

Browney7 wrote: »

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/registration-of-imported-used-vehicles/vehicles-imported-from-gb-and-ni.aspx bit more here. Looks to registration plate based in that case

Ah, that puts an end to my plan so.

Infernal Racket

grogi wrote: »

No.

Would have been way too easy. Seems Northern Ireland registered vehicles are the only simple solution so we'll expect prices to be hiked by Northern traders now.

grogi

Infernal Racket wrote: »

Would have been way too easy. Seems Northern Ireland registered vehicles are the only simple solution so we'll expect prices to be hiked by Northern traders now.

They will go up mainly because the source of cheap cars from GB is no more. Used cars will be more expensive here as well, as lack of competition.

The J Stands for Jay

Browney7 wrote: »

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/registration-of-imported-used-vehicles/vehicles-imported-from-gb-and-ni.aspx bit more here. Looks to registration plate based in that case

This could even cut down the supply of NI cars; some of those are on GB plates.

Mintoe

McGaggs wrote: »

This could even cut down the supply of NI cars; some of those are on GB plates.

The majority of used stock in NI is sourced from mainland uk and dealers often then put them on NI plates on their forecourts.

pale rider

Just looking at the Revenue VRt site, looking at a 2018 E Class in NI, the official CO2 emissions are 122, based on the new rates for VRT that should fall into 15.75% of the OMSP determined by Revenue BUT the site is calculating at 23.5% which according to their own calculations should be for emissions falling between 150g/km - 155g/km

The VRT payable at 15.75% is €4653 but at the 23.5% is €7054,

Could anybody confirm this is a mistake on their site, I guess it would be picked up at the VRT centre when the car is being assessed for VRT but too late then if I am wrong

I've done a cut and paste below to show this,

Revenue CO2 Estimate
CO2 Emissions
122
Rate of VRT
23.5%
CO2 VRT Charges
(payable on enquiry)
€7,054

User1998

Have a read:

https://www.vrt.ie/faq/budget-2021-vehicle-registration-tax/

pale rider

Thanks that is the document I am calculating from, THE WLTP figure for the e220d is 122, I imported the same year/model last year and emissions were calculated at 102 so there is a valid increase but that's not really my question.

Revenue VRt site calculate this car which has 122 g/km at 23.5% rate of vrt when I believe it should be calculated at 15.75%, anybody disagree with that ?

User1998

The car your calculating VRT on has 122 grams. If you believe the car actually has 102 grams then it means your choosing the wrong variant in the calculator. Go back and find another model that has 102 grams.

The calculation and VRT rate is correct as you can see below

122(1.1405)+12.858 = 151 = 23.5%

pale rider

Thanks for the reply, The car has 122 g/km, that is not in dispute, are you confirming that the revenue calculation is correct at 23.5% for a car with 122g/km as from my reading of the CO2 emissions from the Revenues site it should fall into 15.75% ?

pale rider

User1998 wrote: »

The car your calculating VRT on has 122 grams. If you believe the car actually has 102 grams then it means your choosing the wrong variant in the calculator. Go back and find another model that has 102 grams.

The calculation and VRT rate is correct as you can see below

122(1.1405)+12.858 = 151 = 23.5%

Are you not making that calculation using Revenues system to come up with a WLTP figure.

The 122g/km for the 2018 E220d is the actual published WLTP figure for the car so no calculation as you kindly did should be necessary in this case.

User1998

Sorry yes I used the calculation. If the car was tested using WLTP then yes the calculator is incorrect. The calculator doesn’t seem to know which cars were tested by WLTP and just applies the calculation to all cars, if that makes sense.

What you’ll need to do is look at the OMSP in the VRT quote and multiply it by the correct % to get the true VRT amount

Now if you went to VRT the car tomorrow I’ve no idea what would happen, maybe the staff would be able to change the %?

pale rider

User1998 wrote: »

Sorry yes I used the calculation. If the car was tested using WLTP then yes the calculator is incorrect. The calculator doesn’t seem to know which cars were tested by WLTP and just applies the calculation to all cars, if that makes sense.

What you’ll need to do is look at the OMSP in the VRT quote and multiply it by the correct % to get the true VRT amount

Now if you went to VRT the car tomorrow I’ve no idea what would happen, maybe the staff would be able to change the %?

I think the VRT would want me to produce a certificate of conformity which costs a fair bit from the manufacturer, I’m learning here like everybody else, you see the wltp is not on the V5 (published on it) until April 2020.

It seems in this case that the vrt is in fact wrong but for me to prove it I need to get a certificate of conformity which takes weeks to get and costs maybe €120+. As well I’d have to have bought the car and be the registered owner to even get that certificate in my hands, then I could appeal the vrt payment, this is very messy but might still be worthwhile.

The revenues calculator from nedc to wltp did not work in this real life example.

JMR

pale rider wrote: »

Just looking at the Revenue VRt site, looking at a 2018 E Class in NI, the official CO2 emissions are 122, based on the new rates for VRT that should fall into 15.75% of the OMSP determined by Revenue BUT the site is calculating at 23.5% which according to their own calculations should be for emissions falling between 150g/km - 155g/km

The VRT payable at 15.75% is €4653 but at the 23.5% is €7054,

Could anybody confirm this is a mistake on their site, I guess it would be picked up at the VRT centre when the car is being assessed for VRT but too late then if I am wrong

I've done a cut and paste below to show this,

Revenue CO2 Estimate
CO2 Emissions
122
Rate of VRT
23.5%
CO2 VRT Charges
(payable on enquiry)
€7,054

Is there any chance you are selecting the wrong variant of the model?
There may be a variant which falls in the 150 - 155 g/km emissions range that you are selecting in error

pale rider

JMR wrote: »

Is there any chance you are selecting the wrong variant of the model?
There may be a variant which falls in the 150 - 155 g/km emissions range that you are selecting in error

No it’s the E220 D SE version I’m checking, I think the issue is as outlined above but interested in views.

newmember2

pale rider wrote: »

I think the VRT would want me to produce a certificate of conformity which costs a fair bit from the manufacturer, I’m learning here like everybody else, you see the wltp is not on the V5 (published on it) until April 2020.

It seems in this case that the vrt is in fact wrong but for me to prove it I need to get a certificate of conformity which takes weeks to get and costs maybe €120+. As well I’d have to have bought the car and be the registered owner to even get that certificate in my hands, then I could appeal the vrt payment, this is very messy but might still be worthwhile.

The revenues calculator from nedc to wltp did not work in this real life example.

Like I think in every case where there's a discrepancy, you pay the VRT amount stipulated and then lodge an appeal afterwards. I would imagine you may even be able to include the cost of any certs you have to get to prove your point in the amount you are appealing - revenue may be able to confirm this with you.

User1998

pale rider wrote: »

I think the VRT would want me to produce a certificate of conformity which costs a fair bit from the manufacturer, I’m learning here like everybody else, you see the wltp is not on the V5 (published on it) until April 2020.

It seems in this case that the vrt is in fact wrong but for me to prove it I need to get a certificate of conformity which takes weeks to get and costs maybe €120+. As well I’d have to have bought the car and be the registered owner to even get that certificate in my hands, then I could appeal the vrt payment, this is very messy but might still be worthwhile.

The revenues calculator from nedc to wltp did not work in this real life example.

Surely the €120 is worth it to significantly lower your VRT? You don’t need to be the registered owner to get a CoC. They can be bought online

pale rider

User1998 wrote: »

Surely the €120 is worth it to significantly lower your VRT? You don’t need to be the registered owner to get a CoC. They can be bought online

I agree with the pay it first then appeal it route and thats what I may have to do, as for buying the COC online well I only found the Mercedes certification process so far and that wants vin number, confirmation I am the registered owner and other details I can’t oblige with yet and then a six week wait to receive it, this morning I will be looking into how to get a COC that Revenue will accept as proof of accurate WLTP on this actual car.

What a palava.

pale rider

From the Revenue website, I didnt see this before, maybe it only went up today, this states that VAT is payable upon importation of a car, no mention of exceptions from cars first registered in NI as was mooted elsewhere as probable.

Customs Duty
In the case of new or used vehicles imported from outside the EU, customs duty is chargeable at importation.

When you register your vehicle, the NCTS will require proof of payment of the Customs Duty and VAT. Normally this will be by way of a Customs Declaration.

CarPark2

OK, so based on the revenue guidance, https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/registration-of-imported-used-vehicles/vehicles-imported-from-gb-and-ni.aspx is the following correct:

For importing from GB
- Unless the car was built in the UK, you will have to pay 10% customs duty.
- Even if the car was built in the UK, you might still have to pay 10% customs duty, as the rules of origin mean that a car built in the UK, but with a lot of parts from outside the UK, might not qualify for zero tariffs (https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/automakers-welcome-eu-uk-trade-deal-cautiously-await-details and https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/economy/arid-40198251.html).
- It looks like any electric car built in UK will meet rules or origin (regardless of % of components that are from UK) and be considered for zero customs duty. Is that correct?
- You will pay 21% VAT. - Does anybody know if it would be possible to claim back the VAT that was paid as part of the purchase in the UK? This would make a big difference.
- You will pay the appropriate amount of VRT

For importing from NI
- If the car was registered before Jan 1st 2021 in NI or to a person resident in NI, no VAT or customs duty will apply
- If the car was first registered in NI after Jan 1st 2021, do i have to pay VAT if i import to RoI? Revenue states "You can register a vehicle first registered in Northern Ireland after 1 January 2021 without any check on its customs status. If it is a new vehicle for VAT purposes, then the VAT is collected at registration." What does "new vehicle for VAT purposes" mean, and when they say "VAT Is collected at registration" do they mean registration in NI or registration in RoI?
- If the car was first registered in GB, and then imported to NI, and then bought by me, i would have to prove that it was properly imported into NI. If i do that, does it mean that i won't have to pay customs duty or VAT?
- You will pay the appropriate amount of VRT.

All cars i have bought in the last 10 years have been from GB. The market over there is so large that it not only gives better value but a much greater choice. If i go to Carzone.ie and search for a manual Ford Galaxy, 2018 or newer, manual, i get 5 options in the whole country. That isn't a choice, that is "take what you are given" territory. If i go to autotrader, same search, i can choose from 96 cars.

For me, if you can reclaim the VAT that was inherent in the price you paid to the GB garage, then i think it would still be a viable purchase, particularly if sterling stays low or goes lower. But if you have to pay 21% here, with no rebate on the VAT paid in UK, then it probably pushes it out of reach. The rules of origin are also a real game changer. They certainly make the UK made cars much more attractive as a second hand option for importing to Ireland.

macplaxton

CarPark2 wrote: »

- It looks like any electric car built in UK will meet rules or origin (regardless of % of components that are from UK) and be considered for zero customs duty. Is that correct?

They have agreed that in the case of electric vehicles they can have more non-UK content and still be classed as UK made.

The deal allows 70% "maximum value of non-originating materials", but this is only until 2026 when it drops - they need to get their finger out and start making batteries locally.

User1998

What electric cars are built in the UK?

macplaxton

CarPark2 wrote: »

- You will pay 21%* VAT. - Does anybody know if it would be possible to claim back the VAT that was paid as part of the purchase in the UK?

*due to revert to 23% on 1st March 2021

It should be possible - how quickly I don't know - to reclaim the VAT (if qualifying) and proof of export given.

It's also be possible for the sale to be VAT-free in the first place as an export sale on a NMT (new means of transport)

macplaxton

User1998 wrote: »

What electric cars are built in the UK?

Nissan has built almost 175,000 Leaf (Leafs or Leaves??) in the UK

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/nissan-builds-500000th-leaf-sunderland-factory

User1998

macplaxton wrote: »

Nissan has built almost 175,000 Leaf (Leafs or Leaves??) in the UK

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/nissan-builds-500000th-leaf-sunderland-factory

We’ll all be driving Nissan Leaves so!

CarPark2

macplaxton wrote: »

It's also be possible for the sale to be VAT-free in the first place as an export sale on a NMT (new means of transport)

Does NMT mean the car has to be new, I.e., can NMT apply to second hand car?

macplaxton

User1998 wrote: »

We’ll all be driving Nissan Leaves so!

The Mini-E as well in Oxfordshire at the moment.

macplaxton

CarPark2 wrote: »

Does NMT mean the car has to be new, I.e., can NMT apply to second hand car?

NMT

less than 6 months old AND 6000km

e.g.

5000km and 2 yrs old = NMT

7000km and 5 months old = NMT

7000km and 7 months old = not NMT

All of the above could be described as second-hand in everyday language.