Battles with a water heater

brlin17

Hello all,

we just moved to Dublin and our apartment's electric water heater is really confusing us - we both have never used one before (the countries we lived in before always had gas heaters), so I'm wanting to understand the thing. The landlord insists we have hot water, but they can't come in to help us because we're still in self-isolation, hopefully you all have some ideas.
Sorry for the rookie question, but we'd love to take a hot shower

(I have some pictures of the timer and tank, but the board isn't letting me post them because I'm a new user - if you post your email to the answer, I can send a link to the photos.)

The timer seems straightforward - it seems we should push the pins out for the time we want heating (we don't know yet if our building has nighttime tariff or not, I gotta figure this out) and then use 'boost' for heat outside of those times. However, the timed heat seems to do *nothing*, we only have ice cold water. Boost gave us a barely lukewarm water for the first five days and then suddenly yesterday, 60 minutes after the boost, we got some hot water for my girlfriend's shower. But since then, again, nothing. The ins- and outflows of the tank also confuse me and aren't what I expected, but at least all the taps related to hot water all seem open.

Based on what I've read and looking at the size and insulation of the tank, I would think that heated water that hasn't been used would be stored for later use, right? So even if the tank only had cold water when we moved in (since no one had lived there for awhile) and it just took awhile to replenish the hot water, once there was some hot water in the tank, I would think we would *keep* getting hot water as long as we keep heating regularly (e.g. with the timer set to a regular schedule). What are we doing wrong?

Sorry for the basic question, I'd appreciate any pointers you can give.

cruizer101

If you put the image up on some hosting site like imgur or https://imgbb.com/ you can post the links here, you might have to remove the https as I think new users can't post links but if you put the text up people will be able to follow them.

Often those timers have three settings, off, timer and on. So the pins will only work in timer mode. The boost would normally work if in off or timer.

On the insulation, it will keep the water warm for maybe 12hrs ish, it will depend on the kind of insulation.

Pictures will make it clearer.

brlin17

thanks a bunch - I was wondering about that too with the timer, but it just has off/on settings. Here are the pics: photos.app.goo.gl/T1F2RUPFEEhA87Kv7

(add https in front)

iwillhtfu

It looks like it's set to come on 09:00-10:00 and then 20:00-21:00 so you should have some hot water.

I'm not sure what the boost button does but what happens when you push the dial? I'm guessing it comes on for 30mins as that's where it is set at.

whizbang

These timers are very often wired differently to expected, and much misunderstood.
It could be only wired to nightsaver supply, which means it wont do anything during the day..

Do you have a dual tarrif electricity supply with a timed switchover ?
Timer is usually in your fuse cabinet, maybe its in you meter box, which may be somewhere else entirely..
- Storage heaters?

greasepalm

Does a modern house still have a hot press with copper cylinder and is it switched on.

Tails142

Try turning the dial to 120 and pushing it in, I would be expecting the boost light to light up, you should have a full tank of hot water after 30 minutes

brlin17

to iwillhtfu:

**It looks like it's set to come on 09:00-10:00 and then 20:00-21:00 so you should have some hot water.
- yeah, this is exactly how we were thinking things were working, but nope on the hot water

**I'm not sure what the boost button does but what happens when you push the dial? I'm guessing it comes on for 30mins as that's where it is set at.
- that's how we were interpreting it too - however, we tried it set at "60 mins" yesterday and got baaaarely lukewarm water for the first 40 minutes and then suddenly hottish water at the end

brlin17

to whizbang:

**These timers are very often wired differently to expected, and much misunderstood. It could be only wired to nightsaver supply, which means it wont do anything during the day..
--ah, that's interesting, hadn't thought of that, thanks.

**Do you have a dual tarrif electricity supply with a timed switchover ?
Timer is usually in your fuse cabinet, maybe its in you meter box, which may be somewhere else entirely.. - Storage heaters?
--This I don't know - I had already looked in our fusebox, but there's nothing there. I'll look downstairs at the building's inflow later and check.

punisher5112

Is there a bath/sink switch?


Put the times a bit longer to heat in the night....

Is there storage heaters?

It may well run off night meter as said already so times these run are 11pm to 8am in winter and 12am to 9am summer.

Set the time to hear at say 4 or 5am depending on when you need it....

brlin17

to greasepalm:

**Does a modern house still have a hot press with copper cylinder and is it switched on.
--sorry, don't know what you mean here? What am I looking for?

whizbang

https://stakinireland.com/expat-life/wtf-the-immersion/

brlin17

punisher5112 wrote: »

Is there a bath/sink switch?


Put the times a bit longer to heat in the night....

Is there storage heaters?

It may well run off night meter as said already so times these run are 11pm to 8am in winter and 12am to 9am summer.

Set the time to hear at say 4 or 5am depending on when you need it....

**thanks - there are slim wall heaters/radiators, but they appear to be just electric - is this what you mean by storage heater?

We tried setting the timers for longer already, but since we weren't actually getting any hot water (although the 'off peak' light would come on), it seemed like a waste of electricity until we figured the issue out.

But this is a good question about timings - if you wanted enough water for two peoples' showers in the morning, how long would you typically set the heater for for the nighttime/off-peak hours?

Oh, and no specific bath/sink switch.

brlin17

Tails142 wrote: »

Try turning the dial to 120 and pushing it in, I would be expecting the boost light to light up, you should have a full tank of hot water after 30 minutes

thanks, we'll try this - but why turn to 120? I think I still don't really get how the boost works...so that means you'd get 30 mins of heating up, but then continued heating for the remainder of the 90 minutes?

whizbang

Copper Cylinder;

greasepalm

Alcove somewhere where pipes run into it like this,like a deep press.
There is an element in top single/duel for heating up water for sink or bath.Most dont heat a full tank as too expensive but should also have a power switch for heating the tank.If off your relying on your other system to heat water and rads.

K.Flyer

Is it possible to get a picture of the hot water storage tank from about 2 metres showing any wiring connections. I can't get anything on the link you provided.
If it's a combination cylinder, you may have two separate immersion heaters, both providing different volumes of hot water and both requiring different amounts of 'On" time to provide hot water.

brlin17

whizbang wrote: »

https://stakinireland.com/expat-life/wtf-the-immersion/

ha, that's brilliant! Totally describes our confusion too! (I'm from the USA, but have been living in Germany, my girlfriend is from Italy...we've both been spoiled by instant hot water...)

brlin17

greasepalm wrote: »

Alcove somewhere where pipes run into it like this,like a deep press.
There is an element in top single/duel for heating up water for sink or bath.Most dont heat a full tank as too expensive but should also have a power switch for heating the tank.If off your relying on your other system to heat water and rads.

seems like you're basically talking about what I showed in the picture? Not obviously copper, but a large insulated cylinder with all the piping heading in and out to the pump.

greasepalm

Not seen your Picture?

brlin17

K.Flyer wrote: »

Is it possible to get a picture of the hot water storage tank from about 2 metres showing any wiring connections. I can't get anything on the link you provided.

wiring, you mean electric, right? I'll try, it's kinda tight in there. When you say "I can't get anything on the link you provided." you mean the link doesn't work or just that you can't see the electrical?

K.Flyer wrote: »

If it's a combination cylinder, you may have two separate immersion heaters, both providing different volumes of hot water and both requiring different amounts of 'On" time to provide hot water.

huh, that's interesting, that could maybe explain the extra pipes heading in that I couldn't make sense of

brlin17

greasepalm wrote: »

Not seen your Picture?

sorry, i can't post links directly, but here are the pics:

Edited to show link. Wearb
EDIT well that didn't work PM sent

punisher5112

These would need to be turned on the off peak hours as I stated.

Older apartment used all electric where now most would have gas.

What time would you need hot water at?

If say 6 I'd have it come on at 3am possible 4am

The boost is only there as an option to top up the heated tank which you would have ran that morning let's say....

Tails142

brlin17 wrote: »

thanks, we'll try this - but why turn to 120? I think I still don't really get how the boost works...so that means you'd get 30 mins of heating up, but then continued heating for the remainder of the 90 minutes?

The heating element has a thermostat built in, so if you set it for 120 mins and turn it on, it will heat the water to 80 degrees or whatever then turn off the element, this thermostat isn't user adjustable. I'm recommending you set the boost to 120 to rule out any unknowns, size of tank, wattage of element etc. The boost overrides.the timer, if it has a 4kw element it is going to cost you about 25 cent every 15 minutes to run the immersion, once the water is heated it wont cost you anything even if the boost is on as the thermostat cuts power.

If the indicator lights aren't coming on when you press the dial for boost it could be set to only run off night rate electricity as another poster has said.

With it turned on, you should definitely have hot water 30 minutes to an hour later as long as you're not running the tap washing dishes or something in the kitchen.

punisher5112

Set timer to power on tonight and see how you fair in the morning.

brlin17

thanks so much for all the replies - based on punisher5112's info, I'll try tonight setting the timer for ~4-5 hrs before we want showed in the morning and see how we do. Also, will give Tails142's idea a whirl with the boost this evening to verify that works. I'll report back...

brlin17

punisher5112 wrote: »

Set timer to power on tonight and see how you fair in the morning.

ah, was just writing this in a message to you - yeah, will try this. We had done this before, but maybe just didn't have the timer set for long enough. I'll let you know how we fare.

brlin17

punisher5112 wrote: »

These would need to be turned on the off peak hours as I stated.

Older apartment used all electric where now most would have gas.

the heaters we have are 'Sygmas' by Rointe, which appear to be all electric, so there shouldn't be any interference there with the water heating, if that's what you meant?

punisher5112

brlin17 wrote: »

the heaters we have are 'Sygmas' by Rointe, which appear to be all electric, so there shouldn't be any interference there with the water heating, if that's what you meant?

No was just wanting to know set up as in electrical heating elsewhere.

What could be an issue is element is blown.

brlin17

Tails142 wrote: »

If the indicator lights aren't coming on when you press the dial for boost it could be set to only run off night rate electricity as another poster has said.

the boost light comes on any time of day when the button is pushed (as long as the heaters aren't already on due to the timer setting)

brlin17

punisher5112 wrote: »

No was just wanting to know set up as in electrical heating elsewhere.

What could be an issue is element is blown.

I was wondering that when I was reading about how the water heater worked...but then suddenly we got a bit of heated water yesterday. This now is making me think I had just judged all the timescales wrong (e.g. that boosts of 15-30 minutes are useless and I always need to heat for at least an hour before doing anything).