Seized Lower Headset Bearing.

crosstownk

My lower headset is badly in need of replacement. I have the correct bearing ready to fit but the existing bearing is stuck. I can't remove the lower track from the fork nor can I remove the upper track from the frame. It's like they're welded. It's a 2014 Giant Defy.

Lots of kms on this frame so I'm half thinking of new bike (calm down :pac:) or new frame.


Pics below. Any suggestions?

07Lapierre

Soak it in WD40 and leave it overnight.
Then use a pliars to pull them off?

LollipopJimmy

WD40 is piss these days. Plusgas is the job, available in most auto autofactors

crosstownk

07Lapierre wrote: »

Soak it in WD40 and leave it overnight.
Then use a pliars to pull them off?

I did consider WD40 but I don't want to have the bike off the road at the moment so I reassembled for now.

A pair of pliers may remove the lower track but the upper track will prove more difficult as there doesn't appear to be a lip for a drift to make purchase to 'tap' it out.

cletus

The head tube race should be the easiest to get out. A long flat head screwdriver and a hammer, screwdriver in from the top of the head tube and tap it out.

Make sure you tap "north, south, east, west" so you don't wedge it in the tube. You're replacing it anyway so no need to be overly gentle, just try avoid marring the inside of the head tube.

For the fork race, first thing I'd do is clean it up so you know what you're looking at. A scotch pad, stiff bristled brush etc first. Then soak it in your libation of choice. Once you can see it a bit more clearly, you should be able to tap it off as well.

Edit- I just looked at your first picture again. It seems that you have an integrated headset. Are the bearings caged or sealed?

crosstownk

cletus wrote: »

Edit- I just looked at your first picture again. It seems that you have an integrated headset. Are the bearings caged or sealed?

It’s an MR168 bearing that didn’t get much TLC. I removed it a few years back to get the sizing infomation that’s stamped on to it. Since then it’s deteriorated into what you see in the pics.

cletus

crosstownk wrote: »

It’s an MR168 bearing that didn’t get much TLC. I removed it a few years back to get the sizing infomation that’s stamped on to it. Since then it’s deteriorated into what you see in the pics.

So sealed bearing, then. The bottom headtube "race" isn't really a race at all, insofar as the ball bearings don't seat on it.

I haven't seen anything online about removing or refitting that race. Do you actually have a part to replace it with?

It might be a case of cleaning it up as best you can. It should be ok, as the outside of the sealed bearing race is going to seat against it, so the bearing itself should be fine.

The crown race (on the fork) should be removable. You'll probably have to get a screwdriver or similar under it

crosstownk

The replacement is in the attached pic.

It’ll be difficult to remove. It’s probably best to leave it soak in WD40 or similar for a few hours then go at it gently.

cletus

Sorry, can I clarify something. Has your original sealed bearing disintegrated, or have you removed it?

crosstownk

cletus wrote: »

Sorry, can I clarify something. Has your original sealed bearing disintegrated, or have you removed it?

It has disintegrated. The lower race is seized to the fork, the upper race is seized to the frame. I still have the ball bearings - you can see them in one of the pics in the OP along with the seals.

cletus

Ok, sorry. That makes more sense. If you have a motor factors close by, the plusgas that lollipop Jimmy recommended is excellent.

I'd clean off as much crud as you can before soaking

LollipopJimmy

And if in an Autofactors these wil be useful

https://www.eurocarparts.com/en_ie/p/am-tech-4pc-mini-hook-and-pick-set-553981290?gclid=Cj0KCQiAlsv_BRDtARIsAHMGVSZnLviE3ZaogvloQW-rzpOchM7TgMTnR14y8y7aTeZvFM07VD7o8JsaAgudEALw_wcB

crosstownk

Thanks for the suggestions. I’ll get the picks and the Plusgas from the factors down the road. I’ll be passing that way in the next day or two.

I’ll tackle the job as soon as I can go a day without the bike. No doubt the next rainy day isn’t too far away which would be the ideal time.

cletus

Put up photos as you go, and keep us posted

Type 17

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

And if in an Autofactors these wil be useful

https://www.eurocarparts.com/en_ie/p/am-tech-4pc-mini-hook-and-pick-set-553981290?gclid=Cj0KCQiAlsv_BRDtARIsAHMGVSZnLviE3ZaogvloQW-rzpOchM7TgMTnR14y8y7aTeZvFM07VD7o8JsaAgudEALw_wcB

They will be useful, but a general tip for anyone using these in a situation like this - they're a scraping, cleaning and possibly a wedging tool, but they are not a prying tool

crosstownk

cletus wrote: »

Put up photos as you go, and keep us posted

Will do. It might be a few weeks as it's my winter/commuter bike so it's in regular use these days.

Type 17 wrote: »

They will be useful, but a general tip for anyone using these in a situation like this - they're a scraping, cleaning and possibly a wedging tool, but they are not a prying tool

Agreed. I've plenty of motor vehicle experience but bicycle engineering is a lot lighter so more finesse and care required with the likes of stuck/seized components!!

cletus

Are you going to run the bike with no bearing

07Lapierre

crosstownk wrote: »

Will do. It might be a few weeks as it's my winter/commuter bike so it's in regular use these days.


Agreed. I've plenty of motor vehicle experience but bicycle engineering is a lot lighter so more finesse and care required with the likes of stuck/seized components!!

You need another bike! If you cycle every day, you need a backup!

crosstownk

07Lapierre wrote: »

You need another bike! If you cycle every day, you need a backup!

I have two other bikes - one is my 'good' bike for summer use. The other is a hybrid that doesn't get much use.

But if you can convince the Minister for n+1 that a new bike is required, I'd be eternally grateful!

crosstownk

cletus wrote: »

Are you going to run the bike with no bearing

:eek: No. I put it all back together (the balls sit in a plastic race type of thing), I lashed in a load of grease and reassembled. It'll hold for another few hundred km but I want to get it sorted. When I turn the bars it feels extremely rough. Thankfully only the bearing itself will suffer further - unless one of the tracks cracks.

Birka

crosstownk wrote: »

I have two other bikes - one is my 'good' bike for summer use. The other is a hybrid that doesn't get much use.

But if you can convince the Minister for n+1 that a new bike is required, I'd be eternally grateful!

To me that looks like n-1. Sell the hybrid and your well used winter commuter and buy a new winter commuter to replace them. Maybe try to get more grease on the replacement bike's headset from time to time or alter your cleaning regime. To my eye, your winter commuter will require more than a day off the road to sort. Personally, if PlusGas doesn't work, I'd soak the seized bearing end of the headtube in diesel for a few days, maybe a week - better to be gentle. I'd examine the entire frame for stress fractures too - your forks look corroded - there's a lot of lumpiness showing in the photo.

crosstownk

^^ Yep - I've been kicking around the idea of a new frame. Your sobering comments are well worth consideration. Although I'm sure the current situation isn't a write off.

velo.2010

Reminds me of the trouble I had with a stuck bearing race inside the headtube a few years back. There was a lip were the race was recessed, so no way to get in behind and tap it out. I ended up getting a recommendation to bring it to a gearbox centre to have it taken out. I got the guy to use the collet on the bearing track to shift the race a little. He was then able to get in behind and pull it out with a slide hammer.

The funny thing is, I had the same issue only recently and ended up going back to that same gearbox centre. Only this time, the same guy who did the job first time round was now able to get in behind the recessed race and gently tap it out. I couldn't believe he was actually able to do it, but he explained that there was a very slight ovality to the headtube — basically a small manufacturing flaw in the way the headtube was made. The same flaw probably stresses the bearing more than usual and will mean replacement is necessary every few year. It also probably explains why he could get in behind it this time and not the last time.

Anyway, the frame is ten years old this year but has served me well and I did manage to avoid replacing the bearing for the first 6 years of its life. Its been replaced for the second time now and we'll see how long its last this time!

rayman1

I had a similar problem with my carbon 2013 Giant Defy when I went to change the headset bearings in 2017. I had ignored then since new.
When I went to remove the bottom bearing from the head tube it disintegrated. I thought it was all out and it was only when the new bearing wouldn't fit in I realised that the top race was corroded into the head tube. The fork/steerer tube was carbon so the bottom race was free but the top race was corroded into a metal insert. I could see no way of removing it so I took it to my lbs where I had bought the bike and they managed to remove it with a lot of difficulty. Maybe they were confident using more force on my carbon head tube than I was.