Buying couple acres with idea of getting planning for house after

tellmeabit

Hi all, have chance to buy 2 acres that I would like to build on after. It's agri land what costs would be involved in purchase? And as I have small farm over the ditch myself would I be likely to be get planning after? Anyone been in similar situation? Thanks

_Brian

Getting harder and harder, even in previously lenient counties.

Know a couple that recently applied on land the chap is farming with his uncle and had a letter to say he was inheriting the farm.

Denied as they were deemed “insignificant to the area” even though he’s living with his mam 2 km up the road all his life.

tellmeabit

Oh, I'm living with my mother, farm is in my own name. Saw the could of acres as a grea5 cha 've to live here, maybe it's the town for me so.��. My farm would defo be insignificant to locality.
Have heard that kerry can be tuff nuff to get planning in.
Suppose submitting an application would answer it but having to buy it first... depends in what price he is looking for


What would I expect to pay. With no planning obviously

You could try buying it "subject to planning". No doubt that would put up the price compared to agri land, that's the gamble.

If you do put in for planning your first port of call needs to be to a county councillor in your area that has a reputation for getting things done - whether you're of their politics or not is unimportant. Getting an application correct first time saves a lot of ballache.

You could try general enquiries re price of land to local auctioneers, I wouldn't be specific when them at all, they may smell a commission. Then it's between you and the owner, whether they're pushed about selling or not, and what your budget might be.

tellmeabit

Deleted User wrote: »

You could try buying it "subject to planning". No doubt that would put up the price compared to agri land, that's the gamble.

If you do put in for planning your first port of call needs to be to a county councillor in your area that has a reputation for getting things done - whether you're of their politics or not is unimportant. Getting an application correct first time saves a lot of ballache.

You could try general enquiries re price of land to local auctioneers, I wouldn't be specific when them at all, they may smell a commission. Then it's between you and the owner, whether they're pushed about selling or not, and what your budget might be.

Healy Rae!!

Ya I'd say some do the sale will be cash, will ring a few places to see what the going rate and then just ask him straight out how much he is looking for. May not be a runner at all.
Would make farming a bit more awkward if I wasn't living on the farm, might make me more organised.

Cavanjack

Is there not some new rule coming this year that you need 25 acres of land to be considered local needs?

tellmeabit

Cavanjack wrote: »

Is there not some new rule coming this year that you need 25 acres of land to be considered local needs?

That would suit if was the case

Cavanjack

Cavanjack wrote: »

Is there not some new rule coming this year that you need 25 acres of land to be considered local needs?

I hate rules like that. I hate rules in general. What of someone with a market garden, they'd be surplus to requirements.

jimmycrackcorm

I think it's ok to buy land as long as it's at the price that reflects it's current usage. I.e. It's a gamble to assume you can get planning permission, so need to buy at a price that reflects for example if it's agricultural that you can sell it at the same price or more later on that basis. .
If you can get planning permission, then happy days.
But paying a speculative price on the planning potential...
Better off buying lottery tickets.

_Brian

Cavanjack wrote: »

Is there not some new rule coming this year that you need 25 acres of land to be considered local needs?

No idea.
Lad I mentioned above would be farming maybe 60-70acres and they got feedback that they were inconsequential to the area, it’s a pretty insulting thing to say to anyone.

arctictree

Planning is very very hit and miss. If you can prove you grew up in the area and have a housing need (and never owned a house) and have a site with good sitelines then you should be OK. Otherwise it's a long and expensive road with no guaranteed outcome. Proving you have a need via an agri link is very hard to prove.

tellmeabit

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I think it's ok to buy land as long as it's at the price that reflects it's current usage. I.e. It's a gamble to assume you can get planning permission, so need to buy at a price that reflects for example if it's agricultural that you can sell it at the same price or more later on that basis. .
If you can get planning permission, then happy days.
But paying a speculative price on the planning potential...
Better off buying lottery tickets.

Ya I'd be thinking the same but buyer will set the price and I decide then.

Donald Trump

Check your county council website for planning applications in the area and see who did and who didn't get permission. They probably have a "search by map" facility. Personal data has largely been deleted from online due to GDPR but general documents might be there.

You can also check the council development plan. It will have the rules/conditions under which planning in granted.

Tonynewholland

Donald Trump wrote: »

Check your county council website for planning applications in the area and see who did and who didn't get permission. They probably have a "search by map" facility. Personal data has largely been deleted from online due to GDPR but general documents might be there.

You can also check the council development plan. It will have the rules/conditions under which planning in granted.

I’ve often seen people getting refused because not from the area. They reapply again and planning is granted. It’s impossible to see how they make their decisions

Donald Trump

Tonynewholland wrote: »

I’ve often seen people getting refused because not from the area. They reapply again and planning is granted. It’s impossible to see how they make their decisions

They will have a list of criteria that they use. Some people of course game the system.



In certain counties, one child in every family is basically entitled to permission (depending on the zoning). But they would still need to fulfill certain criteria. Such as having lived there for X years etc. The criteria are generally trivial to satisfy for the genuine cases. To get additional permissions, you have to show a stronger need.



A cousin of mine going to apply for permission in a year or so. The father has a decent sized farm (>100 acres). He will likely inherit (most) of the farm. He has a sister who never had any interest in it.



The son has had to work for the past few years on building up official record of farm involvement. Has to be able to show a few years receipts etc. (He does have a 9-5 outside also). Straight forward enough to do, but the issue is with the time needed. Needs to be planning a few years ahead of actually building.

His sister however got permission without question about 5 years back. She was the first child so she didn't need to show any farm involvement.


As for gaming the system, I know of two children of a non-farming family with a decent-sized local business also got permission over the last few years. The first got it "by right". The second had to show strong local needs. They were able to do it by submitting the documentation to prove he has a local need due to his involvement in the business. Probably 3 years of payslips + invoices etc. He doesn't have an outside 9-5 job though ...... in Ireland.............he does have one abroad where he has been living for over a decade .....

K.G.

I often wonder how many people would build on their farms if they were told it d have to be knocked when they were finished living there.doing a liitle bit of cycling with the young one noticing that the village s are empty and the country full of houses

Donald Trump

K.G. wrote: »

I often wonder how many people would build on their farms if they were told it d have to be knocked when they were finished living there.doing a liitle bit of cycling with the young one noticing that the village s are empty and the country full of houses

Most people who get permission are people who want to stay in the area. It wouldn't be fair to force them into a village just to keep the money rolling in for some developer who built an estate on the edge of the local village. If you are from an area, and you have a genuine need to live there, then there should be a reasonable mechanism to build something sustainable on your own land.



The biggest con are these rural clusters. Great idea in theory. But there are a few of them within a few miles of me and they aren't being built on. The reason is that the owners are looking for >100k for each half acre plot or whatever they are.



So they don't get sold, and then they don't get built on and then people try to say there is no demand. A few years back a local TD was at some meeting and trying to push for rules to be changed so that sites on the clusters could be sold to outsiders or to developers to be allowed to build on them and sell unrestricted. There should just be a vacant site tax levied on them after a few years.

Skerries Steve

As a previous poster said your local county councillor is your first and most important port of call.
I have seen a situation where a site was deemed unsuitable for numerous reasons even the council's own inspectors deemed it unsuitable in there site visit report but permission was granted.
Unfortunately or fortunately whichever way you look at it we still have a political environment where you scratch my back I'll scratch yours is very much still alive.
Little things such as canvassing for the local councillor or any job that will help when it comes to election time are always well rewarded!

Dickie10

anyone know how much sites subject to planning are makeing?

arctictree

Dickie10 wrote: »

anyone know how much sites subject to planning are makeing?

I'd imagine this totally depends on location...

Dickie10

what would commuter ccounties sites be? i wonder what people would be prepared to pay?

arctictree

Dickie10 wrote: »

what would commuter ccounties sites be? i wonder what people would be prepared to pay?

I'd say about 100k for an acre site...

blue5000

arctictree wrote: »

I'd say about 100k for an acre site...

Very hard to put a fair value on OP’s 2 acres. If he buys it as ag land for 20k, gets pp for 2 houses, builds one for himself and sells the other site for 100k he’ll have a cheap house.

Kevhog1988

Planning is a nightmare at the moment. have 8 acres and flock number in my own name but am going to look at buying a fixer upper rather than build. dont want to take the chance on 6 months of planning and not getting approval.

arctictree

The worst part is that every time they ask for more info or recommend a refusal, its 3 or 4 months of reports, submission and waiting...Took us 6 years to get planning.

Padre_Pio

K.G. wrote: »

I often wonder how many people would build on their farms if they were told it d have to be knocked when they were finished living there.doing a liitle bit of cycling with the young one noticing that the village s are empty and the country full of houses

Depends where the villages are and what state the houses are in.

People's tastes have changed in the last 20 years and 80s and 90s houses are very outdated when it comes to room size, window size, light, insulation, etc etc.
Usually too many compromises when fixing older houses so they're left to ruin and you can't knock them and start again.

Dickie10

arctictree wrote: »

I'd say about 100k for an acre site...

Hold up....! 100K? surely this is not subject to PP? is this with planning? what about an acre site without planning? do many 3/4 acre sites go on the market in an auction type scenario?

Donald Trump

Dickie10 wrote: »

Hold up....! 100K? surely this is not subject to PP? is this with planning? what about an acre site without planning? do many 3/4 acre sites go on the market in an auction type scenario?

Subject to planning just means that the original owner is taking the risk. If the buyer doesn't get permission, then it's the original owners loss. Buyer walks away. I don't know where the money is held in the meantime - possibly in escrow.


Plenty of people would rather pay, say 100k subject to planning, than pay 25k and take the risk onto themselves.

Tonynewholland

Donald Trump wrote: »

Subject to planning just means that the original owner is taking the risk. If the buyer doesn't get permission, then it's the original owners loss. Buyer walks away. I don't know where the money is held in the meantime - possibly in escrow.


Plenty of people would rather pay, say 100k subject to planning, than pay 25k and take the risk onto themselves.

The solicitor is probably kind enough to mind the money

Donald Trump

Some land up for sale close to me over 2 years ago. About 25 acres in one field. The fella selling it had kept back an acre or so which he subsequently put up for sale by private treaty and subject to planning.

The person who "bought" the site made their second attempt there recently to get permission. The planning documents included a letter from the "owner" giving them permission to make the application. So the title still hasn't been transferred.

The other land made about 15k an acre. The site was advertised for 100k. I don't know whether it made that or not of course. The fella still has his acre though I suppose if the planning falls through. If they get it, he'll be much better off of course. Might have gotten a higher price per acre if he sold it all together though. And the money would already be in his pocket

Dickie10

yea, stll 100k for acres is great

Dickie10

often thoought of buyiing land then selling a site or two and pay off a lot of the money borrowed. say 20 acres at 200k , two sites 70 k each , now you 18 acres all paid for near enough

K.G.

Dickie10 wrote: »

often thoought of buyiing land then selling a site or two and pay off a lot of the money borrowed. say 20 acres at 200k , two sites 70 k each , now you 18 acres all paid for near enough

That used to be the way but more or less gone now due to planning and rightly so.the chances are the fella your bidding against is buying a site with 18 acres at agricultural value as well so the 20 acres would make 300 k,100 k for the site and 200 for the 18 acres

vincenzolorenzo

You don't need to own land to apply for planning on it, just a letter from current owner giving you consent to apply.

I wouldn't be banking on getting planning OP. If the land is of use to you agriculturally and you're not in a hurry to get a house on it go for it. But its getting more and more difficult to get rural planning. Been there and bought the t-shirt :mad:

tellmeabit

vincenzolorenzo wrote: »

You don't need to own land to apply for planning on it, just a letter from current owner giving you consent to apply.

I wouldn't be banking on getting planning OP. If the land is of use to you agriculturally and you're not in a hurry to get a house on it go for it. But its getting more and more difficult to get rural planning. Been there and bought the t-shirt :mad:

I was thinking similar 're agri use, I have one spot in mind of my own land that ok could apply for, so if the bit I'd buy wasn't too expensive I could use it as replacement. The plot I'd buy would suit me better.
Don't think I'd go the route of letter from owner as I'd imagine price would be outta my league if it got planning