complex management powers

beaufoy

If a LL has evidence that his single person apt is being shared and hence there is someone trespassing in his apt then he should report it to the RTB. Then tenant will then say the sub letter has moved out. Now comes the second round the LL knows that the sub letter either did not move out or if he did it was for a short period and then moved in again. However, the tenant and sub letter now know what caused them to be caught the first time eg maybe the LL sent a recorded delivery letter (if he knew the name) to the suspected sub-letter and said sub-letter signed for the letter. Well the same trick would not work again so the LL being more intelligent than than the tenant thinks of another trick and catches the tenant and sub-letter again, and again reports the sub-letting to the RTB. However, the RTB will either give the tenant another chance, or will allow him to appeal against the eviction notice....Hence by way of RTB support the LL has no power when it comes to deciding who lives in his apt. However, if the APT is in a complex then in order to gain entry into the LL's apt the sub-letter has to trespass on the comunial areas of the complex...and in theory the complex management could stop the Sub Letter entering the complex (because he is trespassng)which in turn would cause the sub letter not being able to gain access to the apt.....any thoughts on this theory

whippet

The bees are at the what now?

beaufoy

I will repeat the question ...can the complex management company ban the sub-letter on the grounds that he is trespassing on the the complex grounds

beaufoy

beaufoy wrote: »

I will repeat the question ...can the complex management company ban the sub-letter on the grounds that he is trespassing on the the complex grounds

The sub letter isn’t trespassing if he/she is visiting with the tenants permission. You would have to read the MC rules, I very much doubt it prevents owners/tenants from having visitors.

Smee_Again

beaufoy wrote: »

I will repeat the question ...can the complex management company ban the sub-letter on the grounds that he is trespassing on the the complex grounds

He’s not trespassing if the tenant has allowed him in.

corkgsxr

Who will enforce it. It's possible but in reality it can't happen

beaufoy

Dav010 wrote: »

The sub letter isn’t trespassing if he/she is visiting with the tenants permission. You would have to read the MC rules, I very much doubt it prevents owners/tenants from having visitors.

Visitors would have another address, also visitors would not sign for letters which would implicate the visitor as being a long term tenant.
This would be easy provided data protection, or advocates for trespassers do not get in the way it runs as follows....Trespasser is stopped by complex caretaker...I have reason to believe you are not a registered tenant here and as such you are trespassing
Trespasser No I am just visiting
Caretaker....what is the address of your residence
Traspasser...I am not telling you ..mind your own business
Caretaker....If you live elsewhere why have i seen you coming in and out for months, and why if you do not live here are you renting a car park space here

beaufoy

beaufoy wrote: »

Visitors would have another address, also visitors would not sign for letters which would implicate the visitor as being a long term tenant.
This would be easy provided data protection, or advocates for trespassers do not get in the way it runs as follows....Trespasser is stopped by complex caretaker...I have reason to believe you are not a registered tenant here and as such you are trespassing
Trespasser No I am just visiting
Caretaker....what is the address of your residence
Traspasser...I am not telling you ..mind your own business
Caretaker....If you live elsewhere why have i seen you coming in and out for months, and why if you do not live here are you renting a car park space here

Wow.

Signing for a letter in no way indicates you live there, it just means the sender has proof that it was delivered to the correct address.

I have never heard of a MC requiring visitors have an address and no employee of the MC would be entitled to that information from a visitor.

DubCount

I understand the frustration with getting the RTB to enforce Tenant responsibilities. However, its not the management company responsibility to do the RTB's work for them, or get involved in a Landlord/Tenant dispute. Rather than look for the clever solution, just hire a lawyer and work through the painful process we have. If you are not cut out for landlording, then issue a notice to terminate based on selling up, and move to another form of investment.

beaufoy

Dav010 wrote: »

Wow.

Signing for a letter in no way indicates you live there, it just means the sender has proof that it was delivered to the correct address.

I have never heard of a MC requiring visitors have an address and no employee of the MC would be entitled to that information from a visitor.

WOW WOW WOW
Signing for a letter according to the garda is a very good indicator that the signer does live there
Please read my post I never said the MC should require vistors to have another address i just said a caretaker could ask....If the visitor/suspected illegal resident refuses to give said info then the garda could be called to verify if said person has a right to live there

beaufoy

DubCount wrote: »

I understand the frustration with getting the RTB to enforce Tenant responsibilities. However, its not the management company responsibility to do the RTB's work for them, or get involved in a Landlord/Tenant dispute. Rather than look for the clever solution, just hire a lawyer and work through the painful process we have. If you are not cut out for landlording, then issue a notice to terminate based on selling up, and move to another form of investment.

lawyers make too many mistakes

Smee_Again

beaufoy wrote: »

WOW WOW WOW
Signing for a letter according to the garda is a very good indicator that the signer does live there
Please read my post I never said the MC should require vistors to have another address i just said a caretaker could ask....If the visitor/suspected illegal resident refuses to give said info then the garda could be called to verify if said person has a right to live there

Trespass is largely a civil matter, AGS won’t care unless the trespasser is also behaving in a threatening manner.

Del2005

beaufoy wrote: »

WOW WOW WOW
Signing for a letter according to the garda is a very good indicator that the signer does live there
Please read my post I never said the MC should require vistors to have another address i just said a caretaker could ask....If the visitor/suspected illegal resident refuses to give said info then the garda could be called to verify if said person has a right to live there

There's no chance of a caretaker in an apartment complex asking people for their address as they have no legal right to ask for it. What would you say to a stranger asking for your address?

You also need to review our trespass laws as the definition of trespass is not what you seem to think it is.

corkgsxr

I can tell you definitely. The route your trying to go won't work.
It's just not possible for a management company or caretaker to enforce that ruling.

There is no more to it.

Your request would be as easy to enforce as saying noone was to possess oranges on the complex.

DubCount

beaufoy wrote: »

lawyers make too many mistakes

Ha - how true - and of course you will make less mistakes following your own advice

Baby01032012

Very difficult to understand you OP.

An OMC or their agent would have no jurisdiction over the occupants of a particular unit not have any interest in getting involved unless the person was causing damage to the common areas or affecting other units in the complex by way of illegal activity or disturbing the peace.

Smee_Again

Baby01032012 wrote: »

Very difficult to understand you OP.

An OMC or their agent would have no jurisdiction over the occupants of a particular unit not have any interest in getting involved unless the person was causing damage to the common areas or affecting other units in the complex by way of illegal activity or disturbing the peace.

I think it’s a student accommodation complex but rented to non students so there may be administrators/caretakers at the complex.

beaufoy

Del2005 wrote: »

There's no chance of a caretaker in an apartment complex asking people for their address as they have no legal right to ask for it. What would you say to a stranger asking for your address?

You also need to review our trespass laws as the definition of trespass is not what you seem to think it is.

Sorry I have given and asked for addresses to strangers in connection with a job as a security guard and motor accidents

beaufoy

beaufoy wrote: »

Sorry I have given and asked for addresses to strangers in connection with a job as a security guard and motor accidents

And what do you do if they tell you that they don’t have to give it? As a security guard you can deny entry if the person doesn’t have permission from the owner tenant, if they do, then you have no right to stop them nor ask for personal info. Besides which, you have no way of knowing whether the address they give is genuine.

beaufoy

Baby01032012 wrote: »

Very difficult to understand you OP.

An OMC or their agent would have no jurisdiction over the occupants of a particular unit not have any interest in getting involved unless the person was causing damage to the common areas or affecting other units in the complex by way of illegal activity or disturbing the peace.

Well done I understand you and yes the person the management company knew to be sub letting illegally was living in an apt which caused damage to other apts ie it was either him or his boyfriend who damaged the apt below by way of a leak. Also before the leak gets to the apt below it has to go through the voids between the floor of my apt and the ceiling of the apt below and said voids are communial;

beaufoy

Dav010 wrote: »

And what do you do if they tell you that they don’t have to give it? As a security guard you can deny entry if the person doesn’t have permission from the owner tenant, if they do, then you have no right to stop them nor ask for personal info. Besides which, you have no way of knowing whether the address they give is genuine.

First clever thing you have said yes it was a fake address

Del2005

beaufoy wrote: »

Sorry I have given and asked for addresses to strangers in connection with a job as a security guard and motor accidents

Neither of which are relevant to your OP.

Have you looked up our trespass law yet?

Mjolnir

Op in no way is that how trespass works in Ireland. It is a civil matter save in very particular circumstances(not the ones you outlined).
The 'visitor' is only obliged to provide details to the guards if they have been suspected of commiting a crime. Tresspass is not a crime, security, management, caretakers, etc can ask but have no legal right to the 'visitors' information nor are they obliged to give the information. The tennet can have people come and go as they please as long as they are not commiting a criminal act.
Having a registered letter sent to an address is not proof its at best circumstantial. I've often had friends have things sent to my address for ease and my address was safer for post to go to.

beaufoy

Del2005 wrote: »

Neither of which are relevant to your OP.

Have you looked up our trespass law yet?

I am too busy to follow instructions from you, anyway are you suggesting the complex management company are liars. A quick summary just for you. The management company sent a circular to all owners saying that the complex is being trespassed on by non registered residents and undesirables (ie drug addicts,pimps and prostitutes) and said people should not be allowed in the complex. Then when I said at least one non registered tenant/ suspected PT pimp is in my apt the management company said we will keep our eyes open. Then a week later they said we have seen the non registered tenant going into your apt to sleep and girls go in but do not sleep there i replied "so you have thrown out the trespasser after all you said no tresspassers allowed" and they replied no it is your problem and we cannot help because the caretaker is worried about his safety

beaufoy

Del2005 wrote: »

Neither of which are relevant to your OP.

Have you looked up our trespass law yet?

I am too busy to follow instructions from you, anyway are you suggesting the complex management company are liars. A quick summary just for you. The management company sent a circular to all owners saying that the complex is being trespassed on by non registered residents and undesirables (ie drug addicts,pimps and prostitutes) and said people should not be allowed in the complex. Then when I said at least one non registered tenant/ suspected PT pimp is in my apt the management company said we will keep our eyes open. Then a week later they said we have seen the non registered tenant going into your apt to sleep and girls go in but do not sleep there i replied "so you have thrown out the trespasser after all you said no tresspassers allowed" and they replied no it is your problem and we cannot help because the caretaker is worried about his safety

What you seem not to understand is that the person is there with the permission of the tenant, he/she is not loitering or present without permission. So therefore, not trespassing. The MC are quite rightly telling you that this is an issue between you and your tenant.

beaufoy

Mjolnir wrote: »

Op in no way is that how trespass works in Ireland. It is a civil matter save in very particular circumstances(not the ones you outlined).
The 'visitor' is only obliged to provide details to the guards if they have been suspected of commiting a crime. Tresspass is not a crime, security, management, caretakers, etc can ask but have no legal right to the 'visitors' information nor are they obliged to give the information. The tennet can have people come and go as they please as long as they are not commiting a criminal act.
Having a registered letter sent to an address is not proof its at best circumstantial. I've often had friends have things sent to my address for ease and my address was safer for post to go to.

I suggest you look at webb sites fighting against miss carriages of justice..you will see cases where there was not even circumstantial evidence ie drug addict gets short sentence if he frames someone for murder...(kent range rover murders) girl friend gets dumped then accuses him of murder of his parents...girl friend gets upset by rejection by boyfriend so she sexualy assaults herself and tells police boyfriend did it

beaufoy

beaufoy wrote: »

I suggest you look at webb sites fighting against miss carriages of justice..you will see cases where there was not even circumstantial evidence ie drug addict gets short sentence if he frames someone for murder...(kent range rover murders) girl friend gets dumped then accuses him of murder of his parents...girl friend gets upset by rejection by boyfriend so she sexualy assaults herself and tells police boyfriend did it

WTF is this?

beaufoy

beaufoy wrote: »

First clever thing you have said yes it was a fake address

Dav you made a mistake which I missed..you said the caretaker cannot deny entry to the apt ...this is true. However before he gets to the apt door door he has to go through the complex door and between complex door and apt door the caretaker does have jurisdiction

corkgsxr

beaufoy wrote: »

Dav you made a mistake which I missed..you said the caretaker cannot deny entry to the apt ...this is true. However before he gets to the apt door door he has to go through the complex door and between complex door and apt door the caretaker does have jurisdiction

What laws allow the caretaker to have any power to do anything?

I have twice told you the facts of the situation which you have ignored.

beaufoy

beaufoy wrote: »

Dav you made a mistake which I missed..you said the caretaker cannot deny entry to the apt ...this is true. However before he gets to the apt door door he has to go through the complex door and between complex door and apt door the caretaker does have jurisdiction

Not unless guests there with the permission of the tenants are excluded in the MC rules. Are they?

Mjolnir

beaufoy wrote: »

I suggest you look at webb sites fighting against miss carriages of justice..you will see cases where there was not even circumstantial evidence ie drug addict gets short sentence if he frames someone for murder...(kent range rover murders) girl friend gets dumped then accuses him of murder of his parents...girl friend gets upset by rejection by boyfriend so she sexualy assaults herself and tells police boyfriend did it

You can suggest what you'd, like fact is in trespass no crime has been committed its a civil matter.
Circumstantial evidence will be next to useless in most civil matters. Again we are not discussing murder, sexual assualt etc.
While incredibly unfortunate it is rather too easy to pin a crime on someone especially if the investigator likes that person for the crime.
Many have been wrongly convicted of rape in many jurisdictions with a lack of evidence. Yet again we are talking about trespass a civil matter so you have gone incredibly off topic so we will circle back.
While our law developed from English law you'll find it has also diverged with very different precedence in certain areas.

Op if indeed there is a pimp its still not trespass, report the running of an illegal brothel to the guards and let them investigate. There is technically two crimes being committed, the running of a brothel and the purchase of sex. Chasing trespass will ultimately prove fruitless.

Victor

What is the objection to this person being present?

Is your tenant also present?

beaufoy wrote: »

beaufoy wrote: »

First clever thing you have said yes it was a fake address

Dav you made a mistake which I missed..you said the caretaker cannot deny entry to the apt ...this is true. However before he gets to the apt door door he has to go through the complex door and between complex door and apt door the caretaker does have jurisdiction

You are responding to yourself.

beaufoy

Dav010 wrote: »

WTF is this?

history of cases where the word of a known liar/criminal has resulted in an innocent person going to prison read it education is good for you

L1011

beaufoy wrote: »

history of cases where the word of a known liar/criminal has resulted in an innocent person going to prison read it education is good for you

This is insanely off topic. Please return to and stick to the topic.

This thread is also a confused mess and if it doesn't improve I'll just have to close it

jeffwebb36

L1011 wrote: »

This is insanely off topic. Please return to and stick to the topic.

This thread is also a confused mess and if it doesn't improve I'll just have to close it

I agree but it is also great fun

ED E

Time to sell OP, you clearly are being driven insane by our dysfunctional system.

beaufoy

corkgsxr wrote: »

What laws allow the caretaker to have any power to do anything?

I have twice told you the facts of the situation which you have ignored.

i have ignored an opinion

beaufoy

ED E wrote: »

Time to sell OP, you clearly are being driven insane by our dysfunctional system.

maybe true but factually i have made a lot of money by way of taking advantage of your disfunctional system

beaufoy

L1011 wrote: »

This is insanely off topic. Please return to and stick to the topic.

This thread is also a confused mess and if it doesn't improve I'll just have to close it

I have had my fun you can close the thread if you want

Del2005

beaufoy wrote: »

I am too busy to follow instructions from you, anyway are you suggesting the complex management company are liars. A quick summary just for you. The management company sent a circular to all owners saying that the complex is being trespassed on by non registered residents and undesirables (ie drug addicts,pimps and prostitutes) and said people should not be allowed in the complex. Then when I said at least one non registered tenant/ suspected PT pimp is in my apt the management company said we will keep our eyes open. Then a week later they said we have seen the non registered tenant going into your apt to sleep and girls go in but do not sleep there i replied "so you have thrown out the trespasser after all you said no tresspassers allowed" and they replied no it is your problem and we cannot help because the caretaker is worried about his safety

If you suspect that your tenant is doing illegal activities then you need to report then to the Gardai, issue eviction notices and follow up with the RTB. If you go about removing them any other way they will get a nice payout awarded to them by the RTB which will come out of your pocket.