Negotiating with an employer

Bikeboo

Hi,

I started a new job in an industry I know little about. It’s my first time working for a more relaxed company.

I normally work in very regulated companies with regards to employees rights and benefits. So have never had to negotiate the following.

My boss told me I was getting €12.50 an hour net.

I get

€350/30 hours = €11.66.

He says he offers gross wage which includes taxes and 8% holiday pay.

I work school hours so therefore will not have an income during school holidays or should there be another school inclusive lockdown. (However, I do have a second job so this is a little irrelevant)

My payslip reflects the added tax, prsi and usc he pays for me so it’s all above board.


Holiday is paid at 8% of time worked from what I can decipher online. And employer says this is included in my wage.

I’m a pretty easy going employee to satisfy but I don’t want the piss taken out of me either.

8% of 30 hours is 2.4hrs equating to €27.98 weekly.(if calculated at 2.4@ €11.66 per hour)

Take that out of €350-€27.98= €322.02 which means I work for €322.02/30= €10.73 per hour.

I should be on €375 per week when doing 30 hours @ €12.50.
Add in €12.50 p/h at 8% (2.4@ €12.50=€30) to include holidays and I should get €405 per week.


So my question is, if I press him for what I should be getting, can anyone confirm if my figures are correct,

I’m not too clued up on such things.

That’s why I included my calculations.

Thanks for any advice.

Darc19

It is illegal to include holiday hours in your pay.

And remember that you are also entitled to bank holiday pay at a comparative rate

30 hours at €12.50 = €375.

This is then taxable (possibly it's under your tax free limit)

Holidays are totally separate and you request them. It's never automatically added.

So every 2-3 months request holiday.


This is black and white and the wrc would come down like a ton of bricks if they knew this was happening (a simple phone call would get them checking)

Bikeboo

Darc19 wrote: »

It is illegal to include holiday hours in your pay.

And remember that you are also entitled to bank holiday pay at a comparative rate

Oh my god I didn’t know that!!!!

But holiday has to be paid though doesn’t it?? Or holidays given??

screamer

You can’t be paid for holidays like that unless you leave the employer and cannot actually take the time off. You are entitled to 8% of time you work off as holiday time, not holiday pay if that makes sense. It’s a few years since I worked payroll but you can’t be paid less than min wage per hour, so for example, if he says he’ll reduce your wages by the holiday pay he can’t reduce it lower than min wage, and your holiday time 8% of hours worked must be paid out when you take time off.

Buddy Bubs

You don't add your holiday pay to your wages like that. You get paid when you take holidays. Don't know what way you're calculating this to be honest.

Darc19

Bikeboo wrote: »

Oh my god I didn’t know that!!!!

But holiday has to be paid though doesn’t it?? Or holidays given??

Edited my post. You simply request them

You also should have an employment agreement which has to outline all this.

NinjaTruncs

Buddy Bubs wrote: »

You don't add your holiday pay to your wages like that. You get paid when you take holidays. Don't know what way you're calculating this to be honest.

Some jobs that pay hourly, and aren't full time, pay a holiday premium each week of 8% of hours worked, it's easier to admin, as a result there is no holiday when they take time off.

screamer

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

Some jobs that pay hourly, and aren't full time, pay a holiday premium each week of 8% of hours worked, it's easier to admin, as a result there is no holiday when they take time off.

Ok, I get that now having re-read it, they just get paid the holiday pay every week instead of when they take holidays, however point stilll stands about min wage

Strumms

Your boss sounds like a scam artist.

The information he needed to impart to you, clearly and in writing was...

1) Your gross pay... your gross pay includes your wages and shift pay only with any bonuses you will be paid for holding certain qualifications ie. forklift license, first aider etc... it doesn’t include holiday pay, overtime expected or anything else.

2) hours required to work... ie. 30 hours per week Mon - Fri 10.00-16.00

3) Your holiday / annual leave allowance

Bikeboo

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

Some jobs that pay hourly, and aren't full time, pay a holiday premium each week of 8% of hours worked, it's easier to admin, as a result there is no holiday when they take time off.

Ok, so that’s what’s happening so he is legally right then. I used to work for a locum company that did that.

So am I right in saying that I’d he is indeed giving me weekly holiday pay it should be added on as 8% of my 30 hour week equaling 2.4 hours extra?

NinjaTruncs

Bikeboo wrote: »

Ok, so that’s what’s happening so he is legally right then. I used to work for a locum company that did that.

So am I right in saying that I’d he is indeed giving me weekly holiday pay it should be added on as 8% of my 30 hour week equaling 2.4 hours extra?

Do you have a contract? If you're being paid hourly your contact should say you get X per hour. The 8% should be on top of that.
That's not too say your employer didn't say, you get X per hour including holiday pay to make it sound like you're being paid more.

Bikeboo

screamer wrote: »

Ok, I get that now having re-read it, they just get paid the holiday pay every week instead of when they take holidays, however point stilll stands about min wage

My gross wage was €387.24 last week.
I don’t get any pay now again until second week of January.

Darc19

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

Some jobs that pay hourly, and aren't full time, pay a holiday premium each week of 8% of hours worked, it's easier to admin, as a result there is no holiday when they take time off.

And they must state that clearly and show it as holiday.

They absolutely cannot say that your €12.50 is inclusive of holiday.

Bikeboo

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

Do you have a contract? If you're being paid hourly your contact should say you get X per hour. The 8% should be on top of that.
That's not too say your employer didn't say, you get X per hour including holiday pay to make it sound like you're being paid more.

No written contract but he says I can have one if I want. Personally I have found them irrelevant to me in previous employment as I have not sued any employer yet(I could have sued my previous two employers but usually just move on)

His exact words were it’s €12.50 an hour. When I challenged holiday pay he just said it’s built in.

When my hours increased to 30 , the pay wasn’t reflected in it so I have to fight for that too . I should be on €375 not €350. This is one of two jobs I have , so I’m not too bothered about not being paid during school holidays but like I said above , I don’t want the puss taken either.

Darc19

Is the employer "old fashioned" and is it rural based?

This type of "I'll give you €12.50 an hour" (usually a weekly amount) was prevalent in rural areas and the accountant worked it back.

Normally it was done for laborers

Still happens in places.

LegacyUser

Bikeboo wrote: »

Hi,

I started a new job in an industry I know little about. It’s my first time working for a more relaxed company.

I normally work in very regulated companies with regards to employees rights and benefits. So have never had to negotiate the following.

My boss told me I was getting €12.50 an hour net.

I get

€350/30 hours = €11.66.

He says he offers gross wage which includes taxes and 8% holiday pay.

I work school hours so therefore will not have an income during school holidays or should there be another school inclusive lockdown. (However, I do have a second job so this is a little irrelevant)

My payslip reflects the added tax, prsi and usc he pays for me so it’s all above board.


Holiday is paid at 8% of time worked from what I can decipher online. And employer says this is included in my wage.

I’m a pretty easy going employee to satisfy but I don’t want the piss taken out of me either.

8% of 30 hours is 2.4hrs equating to €27.98 weekly.(if calculated at 2.4@ €11.66 per hour)

Take that out of €350-€27.98= €322.02 which means I work for €322.02/30= €10.73 per hour.

I should be on €375 per week when doing 30 hours @ €12.50.
Add in €12.50 p/h at 8% (2.4@ €12.50=€30) to include holidays and I should get €405 per week.


So my question is, if I press him for what I should be getting, can anyone confirm if my figures are correct,

I’m not too clued up on such things.

That’s why I included my calculations.

Thanks for any advice.

If you work school hours, do you work in a school as a caretaker or secretary?

If you do, you might be getting ripped off and it would be worth putting a call through to FÓRSA's school staff division, who know a thing or two about pay rates in schools.

If you don't, please disregard, and others have already given you relevant advice.

Bikeboo

Darc19 wrote: »

And they must state that clearly and show it as holiday.

They absolutely cannot say that your €12.50 is inclusive of holiday.

Thank you this is the advice I’m looking for. The thing is if I find it in writing online I know he will most likely adjust it to be legal. He isn’t a bad employer, just not in the know and taking a chance on me not looking it up. However, I’m not that much of a push over.

Bikeboo

Darc19 wrote: »

Is the employer "old fashioned" and is it rural based?

This type of "I'll give you €12.50 an hour" (usually a weekly amount) was prevalent in rural areas and the accountant worked it back.

Normally it was done for laborers

Still happens in places.

You have it in one... yes this is the case.

Bikeboo

I just want to thank you all again as I discussed this with my boss and have been bumped up to reflect 8% of hours increase weekly.

Thank you