How do you interpret "A Right to Housing"?

JizzBeans

The right to housing topic has appeared more than a couple of times recently in the media.



Apparently 82% of people in Ireland believe that housing should be a human right.



https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1209/1183463-housing-ireland-survey/


What do people think that means exactly? How do they think it would work?

Smee_Again

That the government will not put unreasonable barriers in place to prevent people being homed.

JizzBeans

Such as?

One eyed Jack

JizzBeans wrote: »

The right to housing topic has appeared more than a couple of times recently in the media.

Apparently 82% of people in Ireland believe that housing should be a human right.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1209/1183463-housing-ireland-survey/

What do people think that means exactly? How do they think it would work?

Housing is a Human Right under numerous international human rights instruments already, particularly Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which is the one I personally prefer to go with when asked -


Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.


How do I expect it to work? The same as any other rights which people are entitled to be able to exercise, a right which is protected by the State and provided for by the State, same as the right to education, healthcare and any of the other Human Rights obligations which the Irish State agreed to upon becoming a signatory to these legal instruments, but to the best of my knowledge has not been implemented in Irish legislation.


Right to Housing

Smee_Again

JizzBeans wrote: »

Such as?

Don’t know.

I don’t really see how a right to housing would actually work. It certainly won’t be that the state has to provide housing for everyone.

"You have a right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided for you."

So kinda like that, I guess. But just with houses instead.

Samuel T. Cogley

With rights come duties. One of those duties should be that if you are state housed and not working you have to work in that community for it's betterment. Another should be a duty not to have children one can't support. In theory I'm for it but, especially for lower paid workers; in practice there would have to be a massive shift in public attitudes towards contributing to society.

Article 45 is well worth a read bearing in mind it's status.

piplip87

You have a right to be housed but how many people who are currently homeless have had that right and through fault of their own are now homeless?

Woukd a right to a home in the constitution mean thay those neighbours who are drug dealing, have constant parties, rob their neighbours would be protected from eviction ?

Would the right to a home mean i can stop paying my mortgage and face bo consequences

JizzBeans

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Housing is a Human Right under numerous international human rights instruments already, particularly Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which is the one I personally prefer to go with when asked -


Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.


How do I expect it to work? The same as any other rights which people are entitled to be able to exercise, a right which is protected by the State and provided for by the State, same as the right to education, healthcare and any of the other Human Rights obligations which the Irish State agreed to upon becoming a signatory to these legal instruments, but to the best of my knowledge has not been implemented in Irish legislation.


Right to Housing

The UDHR is not a legal document, carries no legislative weight.


How can someone have the "right" to a house? That wold imply the state must supply.

JizzBeans

Very true, I don't think anybody has the "right" to a house.

One eyed Jack

JizzBeans wrote: »

The UDHR is not a legal document, carries no legislative weight.


How can someone have the "right" to a house? That wold imply the state must supply.

I didn’t say it was? I’m referring to the numerous legal instruments which recognise the right to housing as a human right, and the definition in Article 25 of the UDHR is the one I choose to go with when asked to explain what is meant by the right to housing.

I cannot think how anyone imagines that either Article 25 or any other legal instruments imply the right to housing is interpreted as the right to a house, so I can’t answer that question.

Galwayguy35

82% out of 1200

I'm all for helping folks out to get a house if they are prepared to step up and play their part and not act the bollix when they get the keys to the place.

I've see it here in Galway were travellers have wrecked houses worth 300 k that were provided to them for free and the council has to pay to fix them up again.

And when I say the council its taxes from the rest of us that covers the bill for this.

skooterblue2

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I'm all for helping folks out to get a house if they are prepared to step up and play their part and not act the bollix when they get the keys to the place.

I've see it here in Galway were travellers have wrecked houses worth 300 k they were provided to them for free and the council has to pay to fix them up again.

Remember the hate speech law. you cant criticise minorities regardless how they act even it borders on animal like.

mickuhaha

I don't believe I in a right to have a house or home to be provided but definitely temporary accommodation as needed.

You don't want people living on the street.

If you give one person a free house you have to give everyone a free house.

I would guess a right to housing would in my opinion be the right to hold(purchase/lease) a house no matter your background. I am not sure if it is the same as a right to being sheltered which I am in favour of.

skooterblue2

piplip87 wrote: »

You have a right to be housed but how many people who are currently homeless have had that right and through fault of their own are now homeless?

Woukd a right to a home in the constitution mean thay those neighbours who are drug dealing, have constant parties, rob their neighbours would be protected from eviction ?

Would the right to a home mean i can stop paying my mortgage and face bo consequences

Read it again how they were going to finance this fantasy? 82% tax on inheritance on property? Its no better than a communist and grab on your parents house.

dotsman

Polls like this are complete BS. The poll is not constructed in a way to provide balance views or even understanding of what people are being asked. It's like saying "100% of people believe puppies should be kicked" (as 200 people were asked if they would rather kick a puppy or kill their own mother).

Ultimately, the "right to housing" is the same as the right to "food" and "water". The government are not allowed implement laws/policies that deny people housing/food. They can't implement a law saying ginger-haired people are not allowed live in houses; much the same way they can't implement a law denying the people of Leitrim food or access to food shops etc.

It doesn't mean that the government must magically provide everybody with whatever house they want. Just like your right to "food" doesn't mean that the government must promptly deliver a perfectly cooked steak to your door any time you are hungry.

In Ireland we have no problems with "rights to housing". We have a massive planning with urban planning and left-wing magic-money expectations.

JizzBeans

The Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission said that housing should be a right, not a commodity.


What I am really asking is, do they mean everyone should be given a house? Everybody already has the right pursue housing so it cant be that.

Gatling

Free tents for everyone ?

JizzBeans

dotsman wrote: »

Polls like this are complete BS. The poll is not constructed in a way to provide balance views or even understanding of what people are being asked. It's like saying "100% of people believe puppies should be kicked" (as 200 people were asked if they would rather kick a puppy or kill their own mother).

Ultimately, the "right to housing" is the same as the right to "food" and "water". The government are not allowed implement laws/policies that deny people housing/food. They can't implement a law saying ginger-haired people are not allowed live in houses; much the same way they can't implement a law denying the people of Leitrim food or access to food shops etc.

It doesn't mean that the government must magically provide everybody with whatever house they want. Just like your right to "food" doesn't mean that the government must promptly deliver a perfectly cooked steak to your door any time you are hungry.

In Ireland we have no problems with "rights to housing". We have a massive planning with urban planning and left-wing magic-money expectations.

Yep, makes sense. The idea of giving everybody houses is ludicrous anyway.

Dunfyy

Free housing for every one build big apartment blocks like in Soviet Union used to do


Reds in the bed

One eyed Jack

JizzBeans wrote: »

The Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission said that housing should be a right, not a commodity.


What I am really asking is, do they mean everyone should be given a house? Everybody already has the right pursue housing so it cant be that.

Suggesting that it should be a right means that it should be an obligation of the State. I can’t remember the details exactly, but I think it was Leo who put the kibosh on the idea that the State was obligated to provide for accommodation in Irish law as a right. Effectively like any good politician, he gave the answer he had rehearsed to a question that sounded similar to one he had rehearsed being asked.

But then we know Leo is better than most politicians at remembering his lines, so it doesn’t come as a surprise that he’s not very good at thinking on his feet.

LessOutragePlz

What about people that already have houses?

Does this only apply to people without houses?

Whose going to pay for it?

The list of questions is endless really.

DubCount

A right to housing is a minimum right to shelter. Its not a right to a free house in the location of your choice. IMHO our expectation of what we should receive off the back of other people paying the taxes to pay for it is already too high.

Del2005

JizzBeans wrote: »

The Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission said that housing should be a right, not a commodity.


What I am really asking is, do they mean everyone should be given a house? Everybody already has the right pursue housing so it cant be that.

There's plenty of homes in this country the problem is the free ones* are not next door to mammy. So if you have a right to a home it shouldn't be a right to refuse all offers till the one you like comes up.




*Paying a low set percentage of your income for rent is nearly free, especially when all the providers have huge rent arrears

weldoninhio

JizzBeans wrote: »

Very true, I don't think anybody has the "right" to a house.

Afaik you have the “right” to shelter. The looney left have twisted that into Housing.

cdeb

JizzBeans wrote: »

The Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission said that housing should be a right, not a commodity.


What I am really asking is, do they mean everyone should be given a house? Everybody already has the right pursue housing so it cant be that.

Dermot Desmond had an article in the Irish Times earlier this year arguing that housing shouldn't be tradable. It shouldn't be something that there's an active government policy to increase the cost of. It shouldn't be commercially tradable (even to pension funds)

That all sounds quite reasonable to me, and I think is within the scope of the original question (and the question of housing as a commodity)

Hubertj

I interpret this as more populist bollo*. Impossible to make such a complex issue a simple yes/no answer. The intent of those that propose it is clear.

Samuel T. Cogley

Housing is not a house. The right to housing could be a room in shared accommodation.

Graces7

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Housing is not a house. The right to housing could be a room in shared accommodation.

There you have the crux of it. They need to define "housing" very clearly. Maybe those who answered the poll assumed housing means a house.. easily done.

skooterblue2

You know why the mouse get killed in the trap?
He hasnt worked out why the cheese is for free.

Social welfare is a poverty trap that wont allow you to leave in most cases.
It is near impossible to escape from.

Graces7

JizzBeans wrote: »

The Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission said that housing should be a right, not a commodity.


What I am really asking is, do they mean everyone should be given a house? Everybody already has the right pursue housing so it cant be that.

What do other countries do? The gap between the ideal and the fulfilment of the ideal is wide.

In the UK the NHS fulfilled the ideal of the universal right to health care. By making it freely available to all.. How would that translate to housing?

And also in the UK education is universally free.. as are books etc therein.