Advice wanted for replacing switch

Ghosty669

Hi all,
We've got a existing switch that we use sometimes to turn our hot water on and off (see pic).
I'd love to change this with something that integrates with Alexa so would anyone be able to recommend a replacement?
Thanks

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AhxKyOOFsi_Uj-VytItZ8KHsM3lsvw

emaherx

Ghosty669 wrote: »

Hi all,
We've got a existing switch that we use sometimes to turn our hot water on and off (see pic).
I'd love to change this with something that integrates with Alexa so would anyone be able to recommend a replacement?
Thanks

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AhxKyOOFsi_Uj-VytItZ8KHsM3lsvw

I assume it's an Immersion heater?
Do you currently have any smart controls?

Biggest issue is most smart switches including those for heating systems are not suitable for immersions.

But if you use a suitable relay then you can use practically any smart switch that you like.

Something like this
https://www.heatingsave.co.uk/product/immersion-heater-relay/

ted1

This one might go the job .

https://www.fruugo.ie/eu-wifi-boiler-water-heater-switch-tuya-smart-life-app-remote-control-timer-voice-control-google-home-alexa-siri/p-51714883-104105064?language=en&ac=croud&gclid=Cj0KCQiAifz-BRDjARIsAEElyGLJBQW98BbB1R7Qjh5BSBrumxHtRRfJWLKxvH1grRxW45iMnS_Ah5UaAuvNEALw_wcB

emaherx

ted1 wrote: »

This one might go the job .

https://www.fruugo.ie/eu-wifi-boiler-water-heater-switch-tuya-smart-life-app-remote-control-timer-voice-control-google-home-alexa-siri/p-51714883-104105064?language=en&ac=croud&gclid=Cj0KCQiAifz-BRDjARIsAEElyGLJBQW98BbB1R7Qjh5BSBrumxHtRRfJWLKxvH1grRxW45iMnS_Ah5UaAuvNEALw_wcB

I wouldn't use any of them switches for an Immersion by itself, but it would be fine with a decent relay or contactor.

They claim 20A max which in theory is fine, but the relays inside are tiny and both the relay contacts and screw terminals are very small compared to any 20A manual switch that I've seen. There are plenty of pictures online of these type switches melted after being used with immersion heaters.

Ghosty669

emaherx wrote: »

I assume it's an Immersion heater?
Do you currently have any smart controls?

Biggest issue is most smart switches including those for heating systems are not suitable for immersions.

But if you use a suitable relay then you can use practically any smart switch that you like.

Something like this
https://www.heatingsave.co.uk/product/immersion-heater-relay/

Thanks for the reply. I don't have any smart controls on the heating system so thought have a switch like this would be a good first step.

emaherx

Ghosty669 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. I don't have any smart controls on the heating system so thought have a switch like this would be a good first step.

It's as good a place as any to start. You might want to consider some your future smart products as well though. Maybe you will want to stick with a single eco-system for simplicity ie everything on one app?

Or consider the technology, are you happy for your smart devices to share your house WiFi or maybe prefer a separate network like zigbee which will require its own hub.

If you want to consider mixing eco-systems and technologies and still want to use a single app and are willing to go down a bit of a DIY rabbit hole, then there are some interesting projects to look at like Home Assistant or Openhab or a multitude of others.


For simple WiFi smart switches
Shelly Nice App, also works from any Web Browser and easily integrated with lots of home controllers
Sonoff Apps ok, can be integrated with most home controllers using custom firmware or third party integrations
Tuya Apps OK, the most difficult of the three to integrate with home controllers but has a massive array of compatible devices. Not a bad choice if you wanted to only use the Tuya App, biggest drawback is there is no local network control and rely completely on cloud service to operate any automations. There are ways around this limitation.

Clareman

Smart heating controls was 1 of my first installs, free Netamo from Energia, I would say that it's the best device we have, you could go down the route of just getting a switch but if you go that little bit further and get a smart thermostat you won't know yourself

Chet T16

This is about the only thing I'd trust to run an immersion directly.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B077NBZ3LD/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_t0l4FbJKKGM0M

It's Smart Life/Tuya compatible.

emaherx

Clareman wrote: »

Smart heating controls was 1 of my first installs, free Netamo from Energia, I would say that it's the best device we have, you could go down the route of just getting a switch but if you go that little bit further and get a smart thermostat you won't know yourself

Is Netamo suitable for Immersions though?

emaherx

Chet T16 wrote: »

This is about the only thing I'd trust to run an immersion directly.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B077NBZ3LD/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_t0l4FbJKKGM0M

It's Smart Life/Tuya compatible.

Any of the "20A" Tuya switches I've seen are very optimistic with their 20A claim. Any reason why this one is the only one you'd trust? I'm not familiar with this particular one but personally I'd use a power relay or contactor in conjunction with any of these type devices it won't cost much more but will add peace of mind.

Clareman

emaherx wrote: »

Is Netamo suitable for Immersions though?

Sorry, I was reading on my phone and saw the smart controls on the heating.

Personally I've looked into the smart switch for the immersion a few times, must be an Irish thing about the fear of leaving the immersion on :pac::pac::pac: I'm yet to see 1 that I'd trust, in my head it's up there with the oven and showers for power load so it would take something very well certified for me to trust it. I've noticed though that since we've gotten the smart heating controls in that hot water isn't a problem as the heat comes on a few times there's a steady supply of hot water to the house.

emaherx

Clareman wrote: »

Sorry, I was reading on my phone and saw the smart controls on the heating.

Personally I've looked into the smart switch for the immersion a few times, must be an Irish thing about the fear of leaving the immersion on :pac::pac::pac: I'm yet to see 1 that I'd trust, in my head it's up there with the oven and showers for power load so it would take something very well certified for me to trust it. I've noticed though that since we've gotten the smart heating controls in that hot water isn't a problem as the heat comes on a few times there's a steady supply of hot water to the house.

I'm using a relay like the one in my link in the second post controlled using a Shelly switch. It works great. I also use Home Assistant and have temperature sensors on the tank, it's very useful in the Summer when the heating is turned off and I set immersion to only heat water in the evening if the solar panels have failed to heat the water to 50 degrees during the day.

Chet T16

emaherx wrote: »

Any of the "20A" Tuya switches I've seen are very optimistic with their 20A claim. Any reason why this one is the only one you'd trust? I'm not familiar with this particular one but personally I'd use a power relay or contactor in conjunction with any of these type devices it won't cost much more but will add peace of mind.

I have one and have taken it apart, also had it in use for an immersion for quite some time. I work in the smart home sector as an electronic engineer so I've seen plenty of low quality stuff but the linked product line is very good.

emaherx

Chet T16 wrote: »

I have one and have taken it apart, also had it in use for an immersion for quite some time. I work in the smart home sector as an electronic engineer so I've seen plenty of low quality stuff but the linked product line is very good.

I'm also an electronic engineer and have taken a fair few smart switches apart which is why I'm sceptical about using them with immersions without a separate larger relay. But I've no experience of the switch that you've linked which is why I asked.

In the description of that switch it says it's capable of switching 16A resistive loads which is in theory enough for your average immersion. Personally I'd still prefer to specify a larger relay to increase the lifespan.

emaherx

OP, you should be keeping your original switch and installing the smart switch or relay between it and the immersion.

Your original switch is a double pole switch which is required according to building regs to isolate the circuit in case of an issue.

KaneToad

SwitchBot?

https://www.switch-bot.com/products/switchbot-bot

I have one. It's the business.

emaherx

KaneToad wrote: »

SwitchBot?

https://www.switch-bot.com/products/switchbot-bot

I have one. It's the business.

Have you tried it on an Immersion switch? The force required would be higher than other switches like lights.

KaneToad

emaherx wrote: »

Have you tried it on an Immersion switch? The force required would be higher than other switches like lights.

I have two. One hits a boost button on the boiler timer clock- which only needs a feather touch.

The other hits a rocker switch which powers a motorised valve to heat water and/or rads. This switch is a double gang light switch style. (The other switch controls the rads upstairs, which I'm not bothered about.)

I never considered the extra force required to hit the immersion switch. If I can find the replacement sticky pads for the bots, I'll try it on my immersion switch.

It handles the regular light switch with ease...