House sharing in a pandemic

LegacyUser

What are people doing in a house share? Any control measures to minimise the risk of covid in the house?

I know the importance of opening a window but as soon as I open a window, it gets closed again. We're all mixing with masks in work. Another housemate brings over his friends to the house. He knows the importance of opening windows on a bus with strangers but doesn't think his friends can carry covid. Despite the household visitor ban, he still brought over his friends and wouldn't even sit outside in the middle of summer. So winter is worse for trying to open windows in the house.

Am I being unreasonable for wanting to open windows? I know it's winter and it's cold but we shouldn't have to share germs like this in a house share as well.

eurasian

Complaint to landlord if he's breaking the rules.

leggo

Sorry OP but where are you getting ‘opening windows’ from? It seems to be your only COVID-related concern. Wearing a mask in public, hand-washing, avoiding touching your face and social distancing are the main precautions to take. It’s not an air born virus, it’s spread by close contact, so the windows being open or not makes no difference. And I can see why they’re not going along with it because it’s a week before Christmas and freezing! So while I might indulge a housemate who’s got a weird idea into their head during the summer, I wouldn’t be freezing to death because they don’t know the right/wrong precautions to take! Tbh it sounds like that’s something you like in general and you’re trying to use COVID to get your other housemates on board, that’s how I’d take it anyway.

I’d be someone who’s taken restrictions pretty seriously, but I also houseshare and the reality is that you have to draw a line somewhere and live a life without permanently being consumed by anxiety around this. They shouldn’t be having people over, no, but you’re also not an authority over them so have no comeback if you raise it with them and they say no. I’d be absolutely stunned if any landlord got involved: it’s a hassle they don’t need and the medical wellbeing/responsibility of their tenants is not anywhere near a landlord’s remit. You could call the Gardai because they’re breaking the law, but even if they responded they’d get rid of the friends then leave you with the awkward situation with housemates who now hate you. Your options here are to raise the reasonable concerns (i.e. don’t say anything about windows) with them respectfully and hope it goes well, move home or to family/friends temporarily, find a new place or just do what most of us are doing and do your best and wait it out knowing a vaccine is on the way.

Dunfyy

It might be too cold to open windows
He should not bring friends over
In shared areas everyone should wear a mask. I would buy a forehead thermometer and finger oxegen sensor low oxegen is a sure sign with no other symptoms. The toilet area is a big risk area as is kitchen

Increase hand washing
You need isolation plan if one of you gets sick
I would cover door with plastic use disposable plates for sick person
Have spray bleach in kitchen and bathroom
At Christmas there will be huge risks as people travel sit 2 meters apart in rooms

Flippyfloppy

In response to leggo, covid is not officially an airborne virus, some professionals believe it is.....at the very least it is a respiratory illness and can be caught from breathing it in.

Ventilation absolutely is important. https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/why-good-ventilation-is-key-to-stopping-the-spread-of-covid-19-1.4374754

Op i can see why this would worry you and why you would respond by attempting to ventilate your home. It must be awful to be in a situation where your housemate has gone against protocol and brought others into your home.

At this stage visitors are allowed, however have you tried speaking to your housemate directly about the issue?

openup

You're housemate should not bring people over if you're not comfortable with it but keeping the windows open is unreasonable in my opinion. I'm a teacher freezing my arse off at school all day, when I come home I want to be comfortable and I'd be livid if my housemate insisted on keeping the windows open in Deceber.

Open windows has been shwn to help but by co-habiting you are already sharing so much that I can't see it making much difference.

Have you had a chat with your housemate? When I returned from my parents' after lockdown my housemates and I sat down and talked about what we were comfortable with (mainly in terms of visitors).

Also, airing a room is really only neccesry (in my understanding) if you're spendng time there together. So if you're just nipping into the kitchen to grab something it's very different than sitting in the living room together for 3 hours to watch a film.

leggo

There’s no ‘some experts’, there’s qualified experts who are appointed to speak on this and there’s the rest of us. The former all agree now that this is a virus spread by close contact. We’re a year into this and have a firm handle on the situation, multiple vaccines have even been developed, it’s not like it was in March where everyone was guessing and terrified of their own shadow because we knew so little. The virus is spread by droplets from sneezing, coughing, spittle etc. That’s why we wear masks, social distance and everything else. So you don’t need to be overly-cautious and make up new rules, you just have to stick stringently to the established ones we all know.

The entire planet is playing by these rules and when people like the OP are upset and find they’re being treated differently because they believe something they read on social media or saw on YouTube from someone not officially qualified or appointed to discuss this, this is why. Conspiracy theorists making up their own rules to the world as they go along may get a bit of space to be ‘individuals’ in normal times, but in pandemics when them being wrong could kill others, you need to get on board with what is or isn’t true or you’ll end up where the OP is: upset by housemates not unnecessarily freezing themselves because one housemate has become obsessed with a rule nobody relevant has actually told them to abide by.

shesty

If I were you OP, I would have hand santiser for use before and after you use kitchen/bathrooms etc., wear a mask if you are in common area for any length and if you have a chance to, open a window in a common area if you are there for a period of time, or after you go into the common area if others have been sitting there for a while and have left.

You cannot do any more.You cannot control their actions.My kids are in school every day;I don"t have the windows in the house open all the time on the off-chance they might bring it home.You have accept there is a degree of risk no matter what, unless you go and live in a bubble.So control what you can and let the rest of it go.There are a lot of people out there that need to learn that lesson.

Wouldn’t a full time house share be the equivalent to living with family or a partner/friend or whatever?

If that’s the case then you’re all considered close contacts anyway, you don’t need to avoid each other at the end of the day, there’s not a whole lot you can do to help with the spread indoors in your shared house like. Naturally you share separate rooms but is the kitchen/bathroom/shower/living space all shared too or do you live in the bedrooms? I just don’t understand why you’re so mad to keep windows open (in winter) and all this kind of stuff. I’d get it if you were planning to visit family at Christmas but you’ve been doing this since day 1, are you just a germaphobe? No harm in that either.

I don’t think there’s much you can do here besides just chat with your housemates and ask them to give a rest to inviting friends over, but it’s also not against the current rules in place, so there’s that.

shesty

shesty wrote: »

If I were you OP....

Feck! Should’ve just read your post and +1’d cos I echo your sentiments in mine! Haha.

100% agree with everything, you can’t control grown adults anymore than they can you. Just try and relax, there’s no need to get so worked up.

sunshinew

I agree with the OP on opening windows... It's been recommended by government and scientists for when you have visitors to your home and has been repeatedly advised for upcoming Christmas celebrations:
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/why-good-ventilation-is-key-to-stopping-the-spread-of-covid-19-1.4374754
It's not some new rule or conspiracy theory. difficult for you OP but perhaps ask for a compromise. Open windows for 10 minutes every hour while they have visitors there. I've sat by an open back door when visiting my mother since March. She's the only other house I've been in since then. I don't see it as a huge sacrifice but this pandemic has exposed how much people are willing to sacrifice and everybody has very different levels.

Xterminator

Hi Op

you are verging on trying to control other adults, which is neither your place nor your right. If you practise good hygine in the common areas and just provide a good example - rather then acting as the enforcer, that is the way to go. It i unreasonable to expect someone to sit with open windows in the common areas, especially when you are not using them . they are not required to do so.

You should take all reasonable precautions. Lots of good advice above on what you can do.

If you see any flagrant breaches of the existing covid regulations, you can report them, as can any concerned citizen, to the appropriate authority. Mutiple visitors from multiple households indoors would fall in that category.

GarIT

leggo wrote: »

There’s no ‘some experts’, there’s qualified experts who are appointed to speak on this and there’s the rest of us. The former all agree now that this is a virus spread by close contact. We’re a year into this and have a firm handle on the situation, multiple vaccines have even been developed, it’s not like it was in March where everyone was guessing and terrified of their own shadow because we knew so little. The virus is spread by droplets from sneezing, coughing, spittle etc. That’s why we wear masks, social distance and everything else. So you don’t need to be overly-cautious and make up new rules, you just have to stick stringently to the established ones we all know.

The entire planet is playing by these rules and when people like the OP are upset and find they’re being treated differently because they believe something they read on social media or saw on YouTube from someone not officially qualified or appointed to discuss this, this is why. Conspiracy theorists making up their own rules to the world as they go along may get a bit of space to be ‘individuals’ in normal times, but in pandemics when them being wrong could kill others, you need to get on board with what is or isn’t true or you’ll end up where the OP is: upset by housemates not unnecessarily freezing themselves because one housemate has become obsessed with a rule nobody relevant has actually told them to abide by.

Can you cut your conspiracy theory crap. I.e. you are the conspiracy theorist repeating what you have read on Facebook.

Numerous studies have confirmed it is carried in liquid droplets that can be carried in air.

GarIT

Xterminator wrote: »

Hi Op

you are verging on trying to control other adults, which is neither your place nor your right. If you practise good hygine in the common areas and just provide a good example - rather then acting as the enforcer, that is the way to go. It i unreasonable to expect someone to sit with open windows in the common areas, especially when you are not using them . they are not required to do so.

You should take all reasonable precautions. Lots of good advice above on what you can do.

If you see any flagrant breaches of the existing covid regulations, you can report them, as can any concerned citizen, to the appropriate authority. Mutiple visitors from multiple households indoors would fall in that category.

His housemate has no more right to keep the windows closed than op has to keep them open.

And lots.of hosue shares have agreements on what is and isn't ok re guests.

GarIT

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Wouldn’t a full time house share be the equivalent to living with family or a partner/friend or whatever?

If that’s the case then you’re all considered close contacts anyway, you don’t need to avoid each other at the end of the day, there’s not a whole lot you can do to help with the spread indoors in your shared house like. Naturally you share separate rooms but is the kitchen/bathroom/shower/living space all shared too or do you live in the bedrooms? I just don’t understand why you’re so mad to keep windows open (in winter) and all this kind of stuff. I’d get it if you were planning to visit family at Christmas but you’ve been doing this since day 1, are you just a germaphobe? No harm in that either.

I don’t think there’s much you can do here besides just chat with your housemates and ask them to give a rest to inviting friends over, but it’s also not against the current rules in place, so there’s that.

The problem is the hosuemates guests not the hoauemate if I'm reading the OP correctly.

Tig98

Im on the other side of this, I live in a houseshare with people who are all grand but none of us are very friendly amongst each other. We all just do our own things. As a collective group, none of us have people over. Its just the way it is, even If I don't like it I go along with it.

I visit my friends' house quite often. In the house there are two "groups", my friends and then another bunch of friends who moved in together. What they generally do is mu friends could have the sitting room one night and have me and another friend over, and when we leave we wash all glasses, wipe down the tables, armchair handles etc etc. The next night it could be the other bunch of lads and their friends. Maybe try implement something similar in your house? Its important that everyone's on board and toes the line, a little give and both sides can go a long way. I understand that you dont want people over at all, but maybe tell them that you're very conscious of the virus, ask them to limit if not cut out the social visits altogether and ask them to santise the communal area afterwards.

LegacyUser

GarIT wrote: »

The problem is the hosuemates guests not the hoauemate if I'm reading the OP correctly.

Just clearing things up. It's not the housemate nor their friends is the problem. I cannot stop what people do and have no control. It's the lack of ventilation while sharing a space with housemates and their friends. You just do not know who is infected. Surely opening a window is sensible when sharing a space?

housesharing in a pandemic

housesharing in a pandemic wrote: »

Just clearing things up. It's not the housemate nor their friends is the problem. I cannot stop what people do and have no control. It's the lack of ventilation while sharing a space with housemates and their friends. You just do not know who is infected. Surely opening a window is sensible when sharing a space?

Be that as it may you’ll either have to discuss and get their agreement or just put up with it. Again, you’re sharing the house with them, this isn’t like a quick visit over to a friends. You can only do so much & expecting people to sit with windows wide open in winter is crazy.

LegacyUser

Tig98 wrote: »

Im on the other side of this, I live in a houseshare with people who are all grand but none of us are very friendly amongst each other. We all just do our own things. As a collective group, none of us have people over. Its just the way it is, even If I don't like it I go along with it.

I visit my friends' house quite often. In the house there are two "groups", my friends and then another bunch of friends who moved in together. What they generally do is mu friends could have the sitting room one night and have me and another friend over, and when we leave we wash all glasses, wipe down the tables, armchair handles etc etc. The next night it could be the other bunch of lads and their friends. Maybe try implement something similar in your house? Its important that everyone's on board and toes the line, a little give and both sides can go a long way. I understand that you dont want people over at all, but maybe tell them that you're very conscious of the virus, ask them to limit if not cut out the social visits altogether and ask them to santise the communal area afterwards.

Can I have clean air as well?

Flippyfloppy

housesharing in a pandemic wrote: »

Just clearing things up. It's not the housemate nor their friends is the problem. I cannot stop what people do and have no control. It's the lack of ventilation while sharing a space with housemates and their friends. You just do not know who is infected. Surely opening a window is sensible when sharing a space?

I'm assuming you are just ventilating the place when they had visitors over during the time no visitors were allowed? That was a reasonable action for you to take. It is recommended practice.

In response to leggo, I have never watched random videos on YouTube or Facebook regarding covid or any other important matter. Let alone conspiracy theory videos. The best place to take guidance from is the WHO, have a read... https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/coronavirus-disease-covid-19-ventilation-and-air-conditioning-in-public-spaces-and-buildings

leggo

GarIT wrote: »

Can you cut your conspiracy theory crap. I.e. you are the conspiracy theorist repeating what you have read on Facebook.

Numerous studies have confirmed it is carried in liquid droplets that can be carried in air.

What are you talking about? This isn’t a conspiracy, these are the guidelines set by NPHET and the government. How are those liquid droplets spread? By sneezing, coughing, spit coming out of your mouth when you’re in close contact with someone. If someone sneezes a mile away, it doesn’t go into the wind and travel. And, even if it did, then having the windows open would be the worst reaction you could have to that! This is why we social distance and wear masks in situations where social distancing is difficult.

Having a window open or closed makes zero difference. What do you think happens: if someone infected sneezes close to you that the window being open will somehow hoover it up away from you? I’d understand these reactions in March when we knew nothing, but there’s more than enough info and understanding out there to be inventing these mad scenarios and freaking out about them. THIS line of thinking is conspiracy waffle: it’s not a guideline anyone credible has recommended and nobody here has been able to actually explain in simple terms why windows being open during the winter is positive beyond “science recommends...mumble mumble...good.” And when that’s how you react to this situation, if you live with housemates who are all dealing with it themselves, they WILL treat you the way they’re treating the OP. So it comes back to either respond rationally or move.

Away With The Fairies

leggo wrote: »

What are you talking about? This isn’t a conspiracy, these are the guidelines set by NPHET and the government. How are those liquid droplets spread? By sneezing, coughing, spit coming out of your mouth when you’re in close contact with someone. If someone sneezes a mile away, it doesn’t go into the wind and travel. And, even if it did, then having the windows open would be the worst reaction you could have to that! This is why we social distance and wear masks in situations where social distancing is difficult.

Having a window open or closed makes zero difference. What do you think happens: if someone infected sneezes close to you that the window being open will somehow hoover it up away from you? I’d understand these reactions in March when we knew nothing, but there’s more than enough info and understanding out there to be inventing these mad scenarios and freaking out about them. THIS line of thinking is conspiracy waffle: it’s not a guideline anyone credible has recommended and nobody here has been able to actually explain in simple terms why windows being open during the winter is positive beyond “science recommends...mumble mumble...good.” And when that’s how you react to this situation, if you live with housemates who are all dealing with it themselves, they WILL treat you the way they’re treating the OP. So it comes back to either respond rationally or move.

If someone infected sneezes, the fresh air dilutes that sneeze. The best description I read about all this is imagine someone smoking inside a house. The smoke fills the room which stays and lingers. Opening a window helps to get that smoke out quicker. Covid is the same, it can be spread by an infected person just breathing and can fill up a room. But you can't smell or see if someone is infected like you would with cigarette smoke.

leggo

See again what we know has developed significantly. For example, at the start of lockdown there was a great thread here from a HSE Consultant where they spoke about leaving their delivered grocery shopping in the hall for an hour before coming out and disinfecting each item. At the time, that sounded like an intelligent piece of advice (and it was then when we didn’t understand enough that no precaution was too far). Now we know that that probably wasn’t necessary because transmission isn’t spread through surfaces. This isn’t a conspiracy or Facebook knowledge, this is established via Nphet and the experts who are paid to study this and make recommendations.

If you spit, sneeze or cough, the droplets that come out fall (because gravity) either on the ground or on a surface, or onto a person if they’re close enough. This is why we sneeze or cough into our elbows to block this. There’s no ads on TV to leave the windows open, it’s not a guideline people suggest, I’m an essential worker who goes into an office that’s OBSESSIVE about following every guideline and windows aren’t left wide open all day (we’ve AC). Ventilation in general is important but so is not getting sick because you’re freezing yourself unnecessarily. What the OP thinks is a thing is not a thing. It’s overly-cautious especially in winter and it’s creating an unhappy and uncomfortable shared living situation for them.

The reality is OP that you kinda need to accept that following COVID guidelines in the same way as you would outside isn’t possible when you’re living with people. It’s too intimate to be practical, you have to see yourself as inside a bubble with these people. If one of them catches it, you have to assume that you will too and plan around that. So if you’re vulnerable and feel they’re not taking it seriously enough, move temporarily. If you wish to spend time with someone who is vulnerable, either don’t see them or get somewhere you feel you can safely isolate. I appreciate that’s all very easy for me to say but may be a huge ask, but this scenario demands tough decisions from us we shouldn’t have to make, and these are the reality of the tough decisions you have to work out. So accept what you can, make the tough decisions that are necessary/possible, and get to a situation you feel more comfortable because it’s also not practical, healthy or pleasant to live with the anxiety you must be dealing with every day.

Away With The Fairies

leggo wrote: »

See again what we know has developed significantly. For example, at the start of lockdown there was a great thread here from a HSE Consultant where they spoke about leaving their delivered grocery shopping in the hall for an hour before coming out and disinfecting each item. At the time, that sounded like an intelligent piece of advice (and it was then when we didn’t understand enough that no precaution was too far). Now we know that that probably wasn’t necessary because transmission isn’t spread through surfaces. This isn’t a conspiracy or Facebook knowledge, this is established via Nphet and the experts who are paid to study this and make recommendations.

If you spit, sneeze or cough, the droplets that come out fall (because gravity) either on the ground or on a surface, or onto a person if they’re close enough. This is why we sneeze or cough into our elbows to block this. There’s no ads on TV to leave the windows open, it’s not a guideline people suggest, I’m an essential worker who goes into an office that’s OBSESSIVE about following every guideline and windows aren’t left wide open all day (we’ve AC). Ventilation in general is important but so is not getting sick because you’re freezing yourself unnecessarily. What the OP thinks is a thing is not a thing. It’s overly-cautious especially in winter and it’s creating an unhappy and uncomfortable shared living situation for them.

The reality is OP that you kinda need to accept that following COVID guidelines in the same way as you would outside isn’t possible when you’re living with people. It’s too intimate to be practical, you have to see yourself as inside a bubble with these people. If one of them catches it, you have to assume that you will too and plan around that. So if you’re vulnerable and feel they’re not taking it seriously enough, move temporarily. If you wish to spend time with someone who is vulnerable, either don’t see them or get somewhere you feel you can safely isolate. I appreciate that’s all very easy for me to say but may be a huge ask, but this scenario demands tough decisions from us we shouldn’t have to make, and these are the reality of the tough decisions you have to work out. So accept what you can, make the tough decisions that are necessary/possible, and get to a situation you feel more comfortable because it’s also not practical, healthy or pleasant to live with the anxiety you must be dealing with every day.

What do you think of latest advice from the HSE? Where they actually advise to open windows? Are you saying they are wrong and just saying it because they want people to freeze their asses off?

See the section meeting people at Christmas.
https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/protect-yourself-and-others.html

Now the bit they did get wrong though is it's not a Christmas virus but I'm sure they'll catch up eventually.

ted1

leggo wrote: »

There’s no ‘some experts’, there’s qualified experts who are appointed to speak on this and there’s the rest of us. The former all agree now that this is a virus spread by close contact. We’re a year into this and have a firm handle on the situation, multiple vaccines have even been developed, it’s not like it was in March where everyone was guessing and terrified of their own shadow because we knew so little. The virus is spread by droplets from sneezing, coughing, spittle etc. That’s why we wear masks, social distance and everything else. So you don’t need to be overly-cautious and make up new rules, you just have to stick stringently to the established ones we all know.

The entire planet is playing by these rules and when people like the OP are upset and find they’re being treated differently because they believe something they read on social media or saw on YouTube from someone not officially qualified or appointed to discuss this, this is why. Conspiracy theorists making up their own rules to the world as they go along may get a bit of space to be ‘individuals’ in normal times, but in pandemics when them being wrong could kill others, you need to get on board with what is or isn’t true or you’ll end up where the OP is: upset by housemates not unnecessarily freezing themselves because one housemate has become obsessed with a rule nobody relevant has actually told them to abide by.

Open windows os recommended by the experts. Schools are being made do it.

As you said “ The virus is spread by droplets from sneezing, coughing, spittle etc”

Guess what without a open window those droplets are being recirculated, open windows encourage air replacement and thus reduces the risk.

See links for advice from Uk, Irish and US about opening windows

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-people-told-to-open-windows-this-winter-to-decrease-coronavirus-risk-12135381

https://assets.gov.ie/85177/d9643a37-5254-483e-a72e-d2a08ae36d46.pdf

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/workplace-school-and-home-guidance.pdf

ted1

GarIT wrote: »

His housemate has no more right to keep the windows closed than op has to keep them open.

And lots.of hosue shares have agreements on what is and isn't ok re guests.

Household agreement don’t trump Covid regulations.

leggo

Lads seriously, this obsession with opening windows is mad. That HSE link had the word ‘window’ in it a grand total of once (I did a quick ‘Find’ search in case I’d missed anything) then LOADS about close contact and what I’ve been saying/we’ve all been doing. Like the OP, you’re getting hung up on this tiny thing that’s not particularly effective or focused on instead of the actual important things.

Do you not see and understand the distinction between “Being able to Google ‘Covid and Window’ and not getting 0 search results” and “forcing housemates to freeze themselves by obsessing about it daily at the expense of the steps that are majorly effective”? Even outside of COVID, ventilation is important, but that being so doesn’t mean leaving your windows open 24/7 and creating issues with housemates who don’t.

Just because the word window appears once in the entirety of the HSE guidelines doesn’t mean that should be the entire focus. It’s impractical and going to cause issues, and if I were wrong about that then we wouldn’t even be having this discussion to begin with. So get some perspective because fuelling this irrational obsession isn’t helping the OP at all.

Big Bag of Chips

OK, as nobody here is a health advice expert and each person is interpreting the guidelines themselves I would recommend that we step away from advising people on the merits or not of open windows.

Ventilation in shared spaces is important at any time. And schools and offices are advised to keep shared areas ventilated. How individuals decide to do this will vary. Windows open all the time V opening windows when people have left the area.

Please advise the OP on how to deal with a situation where he is at odds with what the majority in the house believe.

LegacyUser

Maybe have a read of the HSE document entitled how to stay safe from covid this Christmas

sunshinew

https://www.rte.ie/news/newslens/2020/1216/1184859-christmas-day/

Here is a new link on rte news about how to stay safe while visiting other households at Christmas. It has a whole section on windows and ventilation. It says even just opening them a crack can make a difference. It also mention air purifiers and extractor fans... Maybe OP you could look into that as an option? However I think household visits are being stopped by end of month so hopefully your housemates will follow the new guidelines.
I understand your frustration though.
One of my parents died last year - pre covid ... And I think some of the people ignoring the rules haven't gone through the hell that is grief and organising funeral arrangements...so they don't really have the empathy to understand what so many families are going through.