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HRV Monitoring

  • 19-12-2020 9:07am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,414 ✭✭✭ harringtonp


    Hearing more about this these days. Anyone using it ?

    Tried a few different apps. Have a Lezyne Bluetooth strap but it doesn't seem good for this, doesn't send inter beat timings.

    Found just one free app Welltory which uses the camera. It gives scores alright but tells me accuracy not great due to possibly moving finger over camera.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,373 ✭✭✭ G1032


    Elite HRV is out on its own really imo. None of the other come close.

    Waste of time also imo taking HRV reading via a phone camera. Just not accurate enough at all. You need a good HR strap.

    Just be sure to add context to your readings every day. You need to learn what affects your own HRV. Sleep? Alcohol? Training - length, intensity etc and how it affects you in the days following. Only then will you start to be able to interpret you HRV properly and make use of it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,414 ✭✭✭ harringtonp


    G1032 wrote: »
    Elite HRV is out on its own really imo. None of the other come close.

    Waste of time also imo taking HRV reading via a phone camera. Just not accurate enough at all. You need a good HR strap.

    Just be sure to add context to your readings every day. You need to learn what affects your own HRV. Sleep? Alcohol? Training - length, intensity etc and how it affects you in the days following. Only then will you start to be able to interpret you HRV properly and make use of it.

    Thanks. Downloaded the elite but it needs a compatible strap. You wouldn't know which straps work. I see polar H10 mentioned a lot but not sure of others


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,373 ✭✭✭ G1032


    Thanks. Downloaded the elite but it needs a compatible strap. You wouldn't know which straps work. I see polar H10 mentioned a lot but not sure of others

    Wahoo Tickr or the Garmin straps also work
    Not sure of what others but any of the premium straps would work I'd imagine


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,414 ✭✭✭ harringtonp


    Say you've done a block of aerobic and your next session is a hard HIIT session. In terms of whether you need 1,2 or more complete rest days before doing it, do the HRV readings tally up with your gut instinct ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,373 ✭✭✭ G1032


    Say you've done a block of aerobic and your next session is a hard HIIT session. In terms of whether you need 1,2 or more complete rest days before doing it, do the HRV readings tally up with your gut instinct ?

    Not necessarily.

    HRV will give, for example, an early indication that you might have a cold. You might not have any symptoms but your HRV reading on a given morning might be through the floor and on the Sympathetic side. You could well have a cold or virus and in the next day or two develop symptoms. So even though you feel fine you'd be advised to take it easy with a very low HRV reading.

    On the other hand, colds and viruses aside, it'll often correlate with your gut instinct. Like I'll often be absolutely wrecked 2 days after a long Z2 ride, especially at this time of year (well November into December say). HRV will tally with this and will read lower than normal. But this is where your context comes into the equation. A lower than normal reading on a day like that won't stop me training but I wouldn't necessarily be doing hard threshold efforts for example.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,414 ✭✭✭ harringtonp


    G1032 wrote: »
    Not necessarily.

    HRV will give, for example, an early indication that you might have a cold. You might not have any symptoms but your HRV reading on a given morning might be through the floor and on the Sympathetic side. You could well have a cold or virus and in the next day or two develop symptoms. So even though you feel fine you'd be advised to take it easy with a very low HRV reading.

    On the other hand, colds and viruses aside, it'll often correlate with your gut instinct. Like I'll often be absolutely wrecked 2 days after a long Z2 ride, especially at this time of year (well November into December say). HRV will tally with this and will read lower than normal. But this is where your context comes into the equation. A lower than normal reading on a day like that won't stop me training but I wouldn't necessarily be doing hard threshold efforts for example.

    That's interesting. After a Sunday club spin (which I try as best as possible to ride Z2) I'll often look at a hard short turbo session Tuesday. Sometimes it works well, sometimes it doesn't as I hadn't properly recovered, sometimes I wait until Wednesday (2 compete rest days), sometimes I do a shorter outdoor Z2 session on Tuesday before going at the HIIT on Wednesday.

    Lots of "sometimes" which is reflected in me trying to gauge how the body is. The best indicator for me now is how the legs feel walking up stairs which is why I'd be keen on another indicator.

    One more questions, does the HRV trend often tally with your rested heart rate ? So a higher HRV sees a lower morning rest HR and vice versa.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,373 ✭✭✭ G1032



    One more questions, does the HRV trend often tally with your rested heart rate ? So a higher HRV sees a lower morning rest HR and vice versa.

    Ask away, as many questions as you like and if I can answer I will!

    To answer the above......Broadly speaking, I would say yes, there is a correlation. But not always.

    I'll say this too. For whatever reason my resting HR is higher now than it was a year ago. I'd even go so far as to say significantly higher ( 5 beats) but my HRV has more or less stayed the same. My baseline HRV is only 1 less now than it was a year ago..

    I take far more notice now if my HRV than my RHR. But my resting HR is hugely influenced by many things such as sleep, alcohol, work stress etc etc etc


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,414 ✭✭✭ harringtonp


    G1032 wrote: »
    Ask away, as many questions as you like and if I can answer I will!

    To answer the above......Broadly speaking, I would say yes, there is a correlation. But not always.

    I'll say this too. For whatever reason my resting HR is higher now than it was a year ago. I'd even go so far as to say significantly higher ( 5 beats) but my HRV has more or less stayed the same. My baseline HRV is only 1 less now than it was a year ago..

    I take far more notice now if my HRV than my RHR. But my resting HR is hugely influenced by many things such as sleep, alcohol, work stress etc etc etc

    Thanks. That figures. I don't pay too much attention to rest HR for reasons you mention. Gave up taking it as listening to the legs when going up stairs seemed better.

    You have me sold, must purchase a proper strap


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,883 ✭✭✭✭ dahat


    What device are you using to get readings from?

    I've started taking mine from a Wahoo Tickr out of pure curiousity. I'll have 2 - 3 wks of readings before I go back training to give me a good baseline ( if I stick at it).


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,373 ✭✭✭ G1032


    A use a Tickr too


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,883 ✭✭✭✭ dahat


    G1032 wrote: »
    A use a Tickr too

    Any issues with connectivity? Mine is a bitch to get connected each morning with iffy readings as well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,373 ✭✭✭ G1032


    dahat wrote: »
    Any issues with connectivity? Mine is a bitch to get connected each morning with iffy readings as well.

    Each time before you open the Elite HRV app go into the Bluetooth settings on your phone and make sure your monitor is showing up as connected. If it isn't, scan for and connect you HR monitor before opening the Elite HRV app.

    For whatever reason, if your HR monitor gets disconnected from Bluetooth then the Elite app won't be able to connect properly..

    I used to have the same issue you're describing and eventually figured it out after much frustration!

    Also make sure Elite HRV is connecting via Bluetooth and not ANT+. In the Elite settings your device should show as "TICKR 0FD5" (whatever yours is called) and not "Device 3115"

    I'm on Android 10. Regularly enough my Tickr gets disconnected from Bluetooth when not in use. I don't know why this is because it doesn't happen any other bluetooth connected devices. It's not a phone brand issue because it happens on both Huawei and Samsung for me. It could be an Android issue but most likely it's a Tickr issue.

    So that's it! BEFORE attempting to take a reading with the Elite HRV app navigate to phone Settings>Connections>Bluetooth and check your Tickr is connected.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,218 ✭✭✭ Daroxtar


    G1032 wrote: »
    Not necessarily.

    HRV will give, for example, an early indication that you might have a cold. You might not have any symptoms but your HRV reading on a given morning might be through the floor and on the Sympathetic side. You could well have a cold or virus and in the next day or two develop symptoms. So even though you feel fine you'd be advised to take it easy with a very low HRV reading.

    On the other hand, colds and viruses aside, it'll often correlate with your gut instinct. Like I'll often be absolutely wrecked 2 days after a long Z2 ride, especially at this time of year (well November into December say). HRV will tally with this and will read lower than normal. But this is where your context comes into the equation. A lower than normal reading on a day like that won't stop me training but I wouldn't necessarily be doing hard threshold efforts for example.

    That is actually quite interesting. In the day or two before I get a cold or virus of some sort I always get a few palpitations. They linger on until the virus has completely cleared my system. This has been happening for years even if it's only a very mild dose of a runny nose. As soon as I get the flutters I know I have something coming. Obviously there's a link between my HRV and the onset of the virus.
    Now you've given me another set of stats that my neurosis needs to analyse. You horrible *@#&
    :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,373 ✭✭✭ G1032


    Daroxtar wrote: »
    That is actually quite interesting. In the day or two before I get a cold or virus of some sort I always get a few palpitations. They linger on until the virus has completely cleared my system. This has been happening for years even if it's only a very mild dose of a runny nose. As soon as I get the flutters I know I have something coming. Obviously there's a link between my HRV and the onset of the virus.
    Now you've given me another set of stats that my neurosis needs to analyse. You horrible *@#&
    :D

    Again, it's only as good as how you interpret the data and how well you know your own body I guess.
    Like this morning for instance my HRV was a little lower than normal. Just a few points. But I knew it would be before I even took the reading even though I felt fine and had a good night's sleep. Yesterday evening I had a couple of glasses of wine. While I won't have a hangover necessarily after a couple of glasses my HRV will always be lower the next day. So I know that the lower reading today isn't because of a sickness or over training etc. So I went out and trained as normal today. If I'd had a good nights sleep, hadn't overdone it on the bike recently, hadn't any alcohol etc etc and I record a high or low HRV reading then I pay close attention to it.

    Edit - You don't always want a perfect reading either if you're training. If you're always getting good readings then you're not putting any stress on your body and probably not getting much gains from your training.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23 Foxmoves


    I have used HRV4TRAINING App with the camera on the phone before I got a Garmin which had a similar function and found the App accurate enough I felt

    Could be a good cheap way of dipping your toe in to HRV monitoring in a fairly easy way (reading each morning)

    The creator of the App also does a lot of research and posts a lot of interesting info on HRV

    As others have said, it is more consistency of the readings over time


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,414 ✭✭✭ harringtonp


    Unfortunately hrv4training is 10 euro and while that's not much if you could be sure it worked, trialling of other camera apps doesn't inspire confidence.

    With Welltory I can take successive readings and get 2 completely different sets of results


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,883 ✭✭✭✭ dahat


    G1032 wrote: »
    Each time before you open the Elite HRV app go into the Bluetooth settings on your phone and make sure your monitor is showing up as connected. If it isn't, scan for and connect you HR monitor before opening the Elite HRV app.

    For whatever reason, if your HR monitor gets disconnected from Bluetooth then the Elite app won't be able to connect properly..

    I used to have the same issue you're describing and eventually figured it out after much frustration!

    Also make sure Elite HRV is connecting via Bluetooth and not ANT+. In the Elite settings your device should show as "TICKR 0FD5" (whatever yours is called) and not "Device 3115"

    I'm on Android 10. Regularly enough my Tickr gets disconnected from Bluetooth when not in use. I don't know why this is because it doesn't happen any other bluetooth connected devices. It's not a phone brand issue because it happens on both Huawei and Samsung for me. It could be an Android issue but most likely it's a Tickr issue.

    So that's it! BEFORE attempting to take a reading with the Elite HRV app navigate to phone Settings>Connections>Bluetooth and check your Tickr is connected.

    Thanks, the readings are more consistent now.

    I’ll be switching to IOS from tomorrow so it may be more stable on that platform.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,373 ✭✭✭ G1032


    dahat wrote: »
    Thanks, the readings are more consistent now.

    I’ll be switching to IOS from tomorrow so it may be more stable on that platform.

    I think the Tickr closing/losing its Bluetooth connection is a Tickr issue rather than an Android one.
    I have a speaker, headphones and a car radio connected to BT and they stay paired to the phone even when phone is off or they're turned off. Tickr is the only device I use BT with that doesn't remain paired after a phone reboot.
    I'm on my 2nd Tickr and it was the same with the previous one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,883 ✭✭✭✭ dahat


    A weak battery was likely part of my irriegular readings so a change has meant they are alot more stable now. A week of readings has given a baseline so now to see how it all ties in with real life feel etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭ cletus


    If I could jump in here, I followed this thread from the start, and looked at the apps suggested, but they all require a chest strap. I thought I might get the readings from the Vivoactive 3, as I wear it all the time anyway.

    How are you guys measuring outside of activity times?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,373 ✭✭✭ G1032


    cletus wrote: »
    If I could jump in here, I followed this thread from the start, and looked at the apps suggested, but they all require a chest strap. I thought I might get the readings from the Vivoactive 3, as I wear it all the time anyway.

    How are you guys measuring outside of activity times?

    You don't typically measure during exercise. You can if you like but from what I've read on it you're looking for your morning HRV value. It's checked in the morning so you'll see how you're set for the day!

    A premium chest strap will do the trick.

    Whoop is a company dedicated to all things HRV. They have their own wrist band. Expensive though. Their wrist band tracks your HRV throughout the night (or when you sleep). Then in the morning you'll know how you've recovered or how prepared you are for training later that day.

    EliteHRV also sell their own HRV reader. It's a thumb clip thingy. Again, expensive. Your HR strap will do the same thing.

    GCN interviewed one of the people from Whoop a while back. Interesting video to watch if you've any interest in HRV. It'll give you an introduction to it at least.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzQJzDzXBG4


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭ cletus


    I've been looking at whoop as well. I suppose what I'm asking is how long do you wear the chest strap for


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,373 ✭✭✭ G1032


    cletus wrote: »
    I've been looking at whoop as well. I suppose what I'm asking is how long do you wear the chest strap for

    Just for the few minutes it takes to take the reading each morning. 5 minutes all in I'd say ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭ cletus


    The whoop is a 24 hour wear, so I assumed similar for this


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,883 ✭✭✭✭ dahat


    cletus wrote: »
    I've been looking at whoop as well. I suppose what I'm asking is how long do you wear the chest strap for

    DC Rainmaker did a comprehnsive review of the Whoop strap & in the end it was basically described as an expensive sleep tracker at a premium price.

    https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2020/05/whoop-3-platform-review.html

    If HRV is what you are after the Tickr plus Eilte app should sufice. I will add that i'm new to this & had teething issues with the Tickr strap but all seem to be sorted now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭ cletus


    dahat wrote: »
    DC Rainmaker did a comprehnsive review of the Whoop strap & in the end it was basically described as an expensive sleep tracker at a premium price.

    https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2020/05/whoop-3-platform-review.html

    If HRV is what you are after the Tickr plus Eilte app should sufice. I will add that i'm new to this & had teething issues with the Tickr strap but all seem to be sorted now.

    I read the review all right, which is why I was looking at this thread. Again, I thought you'd need to do more than 5 minutes with the strap in the morning to get readings and results


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,883 ✭✭✭✭ dahat


    cletus wrote: »
    I read the review all right, which is why I was looking at this thread. Again, I thought you'd need to do more than 5 minutes with the strap in the morning to get readings and results

    5mins,I take mine a few mins after getting up while seated & feeling relaxed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,929 ✭✭✭ nilhg


    Came across this via Stephen Seiler on Twitter this morning, have neither an iphone or a Polar HRM myself so no way of trying it out but looks like a nice simple way to set one of your training zones at least.

    https://medium.com/@altini_marco/hrv-based-aerobic-threshold-estimation-for-endurance-athletes-a-practical-guide-8c1d744beae8


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,373 ✭✭✭ G1032


    nilhg wrote: »
    Came across this via Stephen Seiler on Twitter this morning, have neither an iphone or a Polar HRM myself so no way of trying it out but looks like a nice simple way to set one of your training zones at least.

    https://medium.com/@altini_marco/hrv-based-aerobic-threshold-estimation-for-endurance-athletes-a-practical-guide-8c1d744beae8

    Very interesting. Cheers.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,414 ✭✭✭ harringtonp


    Reviving this discussion as I bought a Garmin strap recently and have been testing every morning since with both the Elite and Kubios HRV apps.

    Figures and scores so far seem somewhat random and not of much use. I will persist though for a while.

    Last weekend did the Charleville 2 day. Was completely empty after Saturday which was borne out by a poor TT and final stage on the Sunday. I knew this of course but the Elite app returned a high readiness score of 8 Sunday morning. Basically telling me I was fit for action.

    Did absolutely nothing training wise all week until today and this is reflected below in the readiness scores which rose until Friday. Yesterday (Sat) was a bit lower and I was quite happy to let this go. This morning however read really low but my body was telling me I was flying fit. And so it was, I cycled in to the club spin covering 138km total, feeling fresh and up for it during spin and finishing strong.

    So the low morning reading is a mystery. Only thing that was different to other mornings is that the alarm went off waking me suddenly. I immediately put on the strap and my average HR was 10 beats above what it was at times during the week even though I relaxed as much as possible while testing.

    Thing is as readings are now, I would never let them influence a gut instinct training decision where as I would have been hoping that they could guide those decisions.




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