Breaking up with a partner from another country when you have a kid together.

LegacyUser

My relationship with my partner has been pretty bad for quite a while. It's not the 'shouting at each other and arguing all the time' kind of bad, but we do our own thing and there is no real love there at all.

I tried asking about therapy but it's not something people of her culture believe in; they have a kind of "just get on with it" perspective and therapy is seen as something reserved for genuinely mentally ill people.

As per the title, my partner is from another country; quite far from here. We met when I used to work in her country for a few years. We have a young daughter together who is still a toddler and I am torn between staying together for our kid vs breaking up.

In a relationship with an Irish partner, it would be relatively straightforward to end things amicably and co-parent as best as we can...I've seen it happen lots of times to friends and relatives.

However, there is a real concern that my partner brings our child back to her own country when the relationship terminates. She would possibly prefer to stay in Ireland regardless of the relationship status as there's a better quality of life here. But she wouldn't be able to afford to rent somewhere on her own in Dublin even with some assistance from me. The social housing waiting list is very long so I don't think that's an option either.

On the one hand, I don't want my daughter to be brought to a place 10 hours flight away from me. I want to continue playing a big role in raising her. But on the other hand, it's incredibly lonely and sad being in an unhappy, failing relationship.

I'm 30 years old and I'm concerned how much this will damage both my child and myself if I keep prolonging this unhappiness. I keep justifying reasons to not break up. My most recent mental gymnastics was that if I just wait until our kid starts primary school, that'll be the best time to do it because my partner will likely afford her own place to rent by then.

My partner is unlikely to take any action to end it even if she feels unhappy because the quality of life, especially in a relationship, is much better here in Ireland than back home.

I'm not sure what to do, to be honest, so I guess I'm looking for advice. It feels like only I could get myself into such a uniquely messed up difficult situation. If I end it and my partner takes my child far away from me, I don't know if I could get over that. Thanks for reading.

YellowLead

relationshipworries wrote: »

<Snip> Please don't quote entire lengthy posts.

First of all, I’m very sorry to hear you are on this situation, it’s incredibly tough.
I would advise you to consult a solicitor for advice so you know a little more about what your options might be. Courts will put the child’s best interests at heart - often if children are indeed older and well settled in school here the recommendation will be not to uproot them and therefore your partner would need to continue living here or leave but you would have primary custody. However, as your daughter is a toddler that is not at play here.
Have you considered the option of you uprooting yourself and moving to your partners country for work? I’m not sure if that’s possible visa wise etc but the question is there are two adults at play in this scenario and one might ask why should she live here if she would prefer to move home rather than vice versa. If you want to be around to raise your child you might need to consider moving yourself.
The second thing is that it might be tougher on your child if you wait until she is in primary school to split up as she will be more used to having the family together whereas if you act now she will grow up with parents living separately.
I hope there is somebody else here with better advice who has maybe been in this situation. But I would say it’s important to get legal advice so you would know where you stand. Take your time to carefully consider all options.

First things first. You are not the first parent to find themselves in this position.

Are you a joint guardian of your child? Are you married to, or did you live with the mother of your child for 12 months before the birth? r have you lived with her and your child for 3 months, after the birth?

If so, you have you have automatic joint guardianship of your child an as such the mother cannot remove the child out of the country without either (a) your consent or (b) going to court to have your consent waived. Nor can she apply for a passport for the child without your consent.

If none of the above applies, you need to get the guardianship of your child sorted out asap. You can ask the mother to sign a statutory declaration with you, or you can apply to the Family Courts for guardianship.

Check out Treoir.ie for more information on Guardianship and Custody rights.

Look up and see if the mother's home country is a signatory to the Hague Convention, also. If they are, and she removed the child without consent, you could start proceedings to have the child returned.

Once there is an application for guardianship before the courts, she cannot remove the child or apply for a passport for them until the guardianship matter is heard and decided.

leggo

I understand what a lot of people are saying here, and a lot of the time with these kinda cases it is wise to go straight to a solicitor, but that tends to be because by the time the OP comes here mistakes have been made and the situation is already quite dire. This doesn’t seem like that. OP in this case hasn’t even started separating, it doesn’t even seem like there have been conversations in that direction. So there’s no live threat of her packing up and leaving in the morning: it’s quite difficult and time consuming to pack up you and your child’s entire life to another country even in normal times, never mind mid-pandemic.

I’m not saying it’s necessarily a ‘bad’ idea to get some legal info to best equip yourself for all potential outcomes, but what I’d be wary of is that if you go too far down that route and she gets a sniff of it...any normal person who was in a relationship they were content with yesterday would feel quite blind-sided and the risk is that it escalates things quickly and significantly. How about having the “Are you happy? Here’s how I’ve been feeling...” conversation first? You say yourself that she might be happy to stay in Ireland, but maybe she feels the exact same as you and may be amenable to working out something that’s fair on both of you. People tend to jump to “They’re gonna leave the country and take your children” because that’s a worst case scenario fear...but most separated parents actually want the other parent to be involved and not have to do it all alone. It’s quite a jump to make before you’ve even had any conversations around saving or ending the relationship. So have them first, by all means get a bit of info too so you can know your options, then expect to have to compromise and make some difficult decisions while remembering that the only non-negotiable you still get to be in your child’s life significantly.

If the father in this case is not already a guardian of his child, he is taking a very big gamble by not rectifying that immediatey.

As sole guardian, the mother could legally apply for a passport for the child without his knowledge or consent, and could also remove the child from the country without his consent. If he feels the relationship is drawing to an end, who says she hasn't been feeling the same and making her own plans?

This is not something he should take a gamble on, whether the mother decides to stay in Ireland, or not.

leggo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As sole guardian, the mother could legally apply for a passport for the child without his knowledge or consent, and could also remove the child from the country without his consent. If he feels the relationship is drawing to an end, who says she hasn't been feeling the same and making her own plans?

Well...the evidence. Such as the OP, i.e. the only person here who knows her, thinking she’d likely be happy to stay in Ireland.

Look you can let your anxiety take control and think of any number of worst case scenarios to regulate against and try control (another example is who’s to say she hasn’t looked into having him murdered so he should walk around with a bulletproof vest on permanently). Like I said, there’s no harm in him doing a bit of research and having his ducks in a row, but the end result is still that 95% of the time amicable situations are agreed based off amicable splits. Believe it or not, not all women are looking to run off and kidnap your children then give you no access. In real life, the only time I’ve seen that happening is when you’re dealing with an absolutely mess of a relationship. And how does this situation go from ‘the relationship is no longer working but there’s no fighting or drama’ to an absolute mess in the shortest amount of time? If the OP comes in heavy saying “I want to break up now, I’ve been to a solicitor and this is how it’s going to go...” The only reaction that’ll provoke, 10 times out of 10, is her feeling blindsided and panicking, going to a solicitor herself and then the reality that mother’s have more rights with children in Ireland coming into effect. It’s literally a step by step guide to creating the situation you’re looking to avoid.

YellowLead

leggo wrote: »

<Snip>

The advice to consult a solicitor, when I gave it at least, was purely for information purposes. It was not to instigate any legal action or to tell his partner he had been, he’s not at that stage and of course his partner may very well not want to leave Ireland which he has acknowledged. Loueze posted some useful info which I imagine could be clarified/verified by a solicitor. OP is clearly stressed about what could happen, and if he had a few facts to allow him to plan for a worst case scenario that might help. Of course he should be positive and there’s every chance things will work out, but if perchance his fears are realised he needs to be prepared, and if he never needs to use the info he has learned then so what.

Big Bag of Chips

Posters are reminded not to quote a full lengthy post in their reply. Especially if the post is immediately preceeding. This just clogs the thread with duplicate text.

Thanks

leggo

You’ve got to reason out how the actual conversation is going to go, though. If he’s been to a solicitor and that slips out, which is likely in a big emotional conversation, it escalates everything immediately. She feels betrayed and like he’s started the process of separation and custody without even consulting her and then there’s no putting the toothpaste back in the tube...because that IS what he did. Whereas he could have exploratory talks about the future of the relationship (without them having to agree to break up or anything of the sort) with her today and have a better idea of the next steps required.

In a separation with children involved you’re NEVER going to get everything the way you want it, compromise and having to give up stuff is essential because you’re literally splitting up so having to split everything that was once shared. And the best way to go about that, where possible, is to reason with the person and do it the right way. This seems like a situation where that’s still on the table. If it turns into a ****show, go to the solicitor in the morning. The law is the law and doesn’t change just because you spoke to a solicitor before the other person.

The point I’m making is that if you fear and plan for the worst instead of just handling things directly in a mature, empathetic manner, you’ll generally end up getting your worst case scenario playing out because that’s exactly what you’ve planned for.

Some useful information to any parent who is facing this potential problem, and what to do is available from the Dept of Justice at - Central Authority on Child Abduction

LegacyUser

Thanks for the replies so far everyone, they've been helpful. I'd like to clarify that my partner and I are not married. Our child has a passport both for Ireland and for my partner's country because our child was born abroad and we brought her to live in Ireland.

In terms of guardianship, I haven't signed anything to establish that. I can see the plausibility of my partner wanting to remain in Ireland in the event we separate; the problem is I don't see any situation in which she could afford to stay here, especially in Dublin where rent is sky-high.

I guess a big part of the negativity of this situation is a feeling of guilt about wasting life; both my partner's life and my own life. It feels a very uniquely terrible thing to stay in an unhappy relationship for any longer than a few months, whereas I've managed it for well over 12 months and possibly far longer.

I would wager most people in unhappy relationships end them immediately but maybe I am wrong. I keep justifying not ending it and I don't want to be in the same position five or ten years from now either. I feel an intense amount of pressure and am torn between ending it I the immediate future or waiting 12 months or waiting a couple of years.

Since my partner has ruled out couples therapy I had considered individual therapy for some advice and perspective on this situation but I'm not even sure what kind of therapist to look out for. What type of therapist is equipped to deal with the unique situation of a failing intercultural relationship with a child involved? Surely there aren't any?

ILoveYourVibes

I haven't signed anything to establish that. I can see the plausibility of my partner wanting to remain in Ireland in the event we separate; the problem is I don't see any situation in which she could afford to stay here, especially in Dublin where rent is sky-high.

Allow her to keep living with you and keep things financially the same until the child is 18...or until your partner can support herself. Just end the relationship.

Facts are facts...if you partner can't afford to live by herself here ..she can't. She will go homeless ..or leave. That actually happens to a lot of people after break up ..i think its like one of the top causes of homelessness.

She prob has family at home etc.

If she can't afford to live here ...its not that she might leave ..its that she would have to.

YellowLead

‘I can see the plausibility of my partner wanting to remain in Ireland in the event we separate; the problem is I don't see any situation in which she could afford to stay here, especially in Dublin where rent is sky-high.’

Would she be entitled to rent allowance from the government? Can you contribute? Do you own your own house or rent? Either way she may be entitled to maintenance from you for herself as well as your child if she has been living with you for 2 years and is financially dependent https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/problems_in_marriages_and_other_relationships/redress_scheme_for_cohabiting_couples.html#

‘It feels a very uniquely terrible thing to stay in an unhappy relationship for any longer than a few months, whereas I've managed it for well over 12 months and possibly far longer.’

It’s not uniquely terrible - it happens to a lot of people. Lots of people stay in unhappy relationships because of children/money. Not saying you should but you are most certainly not unique in having this problem. As somebody else has suggested you could split but continue to live under the same roof for a few years until finances have improved? I know plenty who have done this.

‘What type of therapist is equipped to deal with the unique situation of a failing intercultural relationship with a child involved? Surely there aren't any?’

The role of a therapist isn’t to prescribe the best solution for somebodies specific problems - they help you figure out what to do yourself and suggest coping strategies for emotional stress. Just talking to somebody will help, trust me. I think you need to talk to your partner also, she may currently not want to split due to financial situation but may also be deeply unhappy. You can both then talk to the family mediation service for free which can help you work out custody/finances.

PearseCork92

relationshipworries wrote: »

Since my partner has ruled out couples therapy I had considered individual therapy for some advice and perspective on this situation but I'm not even sure what kind of therapist to look out for. What type of therapist is equipped to deal with the unique situation of a failing intercultural relationship with a child involved? Surely there aren't any?

I was in this situation before, doing couples counselling and my partner was from what many people would consider an 'alien culture.'

Unfortunately, the counsellor got hung-up on the 'cultural stuff' and was giving my partner escape routes for her some of her behavior based on 'culture.' My partner was an evasive sort by nature, and was happy to use the escape hatches provided by the counsellor to avoid some difficult things I felt she needed to confront.

I had lived in her country for a long time, and was very well able to separate what was the 'culture' stuff, and what was deep-seated problems particular to my partner that were causing issues in our relationship.

It's a complex one, and you'll need a therapist that has his/her head screwed on.

Big Bag of Chips

OP, you're really not in as unique a position as you think.

Being in a relationship with someone from another country is not unique. Not by a long shot anymore.

Staying in a relationship longer than you should due to circumstances is probably an awful lot more common than you think. Chances are some of your friends are in some such relationships, it's just not something people tend to admit.

The population of Ireland has changed. The demographics have changed. We have couples both from a different country/countries living here. We have Irish people in relationships with immigrants. Many of these relationships don't last.

You seem to be writing a lot of things off without actually looking in to them. First stop might be you GP. Ask them for recommendation to a counsellor. They would have various contacts and would generally know which direction to point you in.

Is there any communication with your partner? Communication breakdown is a huge factor in the breakdown of relationships. Answer honestly, did you love your partner at one point? Or did you never really love her but you enjoyed her company and she ended up getting pregnant? Do you think she loved you at one point? It is possible to rekindle a failing relationship if there was a strong basis there to begin with, and if both parties are willing to put work in.

If the love was never really there from the start, and if one or both partners have completely checked out of the relationship then it's unlikely to ever get better. But there are thousands of couples of every age, all over the country who are still together because they can't be bothered with the hassle of separating!

Speak to your GP as a first step.

LegacyUser

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

OP, you're really not in as unique a position as you think.

...

Speak to your GP as a first step.

OP here again, thanks for your reply and for the advice. You asked an important question about the love aspect. I thought I felt love for the first couple of years but in hindsight and being totally honest, I wasn't in a great headspace when I got into the relationship and I don't think it was really love.

The reason I went to work in my partner's country was as much escapism as anything else. I was naive and I thought working in another country would solve various personal issues. I'd had a terrible experience when my first love ended it with me in Ireland and I sort of latched on to the next person who showed interest without really thinking it through. I definitely always cared for my partner but I don't think the feeling that I thought was love at the time was actually love.

It's somewhat reassuring to hear this isn't as much of a uniquely terrible situation as I assumed. It's still a bad dilemma to be in, but I felt like an unhappy intercultural relationship with a child involved was a very rare thing. I also assumed the vast majority of people who stay in relationships were far happier than I am. I will try get to my doctor after Christmas for advice on counselling.

suicide_circus

OP, is it likely she would take your child to her own country if that means she would effectively have to look after your daughter alone financially?