Toilet for farm workers in farm office

gardentrees

If a toilet for farm workers were installed in a farm office and if the sewage were piped to an existing underground slurry tank in a slatted shed for cattle, what would be the planning implications?

gozunda

gardentrees wrote: »

If a toilet for farm workers were installed in a farm office and if the sewage were piped to an existing underground slurry tank in a slatted shed for cattle, what would be the planning implications?

Its something that wouldn't be allowed imo

And Its a no from a point of view of spreading slurry as it's generally advised not to mix the contents of septic tanks
or wastewater treatment systems into
slurry tanks. With a prohibition on grazing for six months etc

See: Do's and Dont's

Link

sydthebeat

even worse if its going directly to a slurry tank as there is basically no treatment in a slurry tank, its essentially a storage tank

at least a septic tank has some element of treatment of the contaminated liquid.

so its a hard NO to this

gardentrees

If a toilet for farm workers were installed in a farm office and if the sewage were piped to an existing septic tank for a dwelling house, what would be the planning implications?

TheBoyConor

sydthebeat wrote: »

even worse if its going directly to a slurry tank as there is basically no treatment in a slurry tank, its essentially a storage tank

at least a septic tank has some element of treatment of the contaminated liquid.

so its a hard NO to this

So, sure the slurry isn't treated at all either, and that is basically just piss and shít as well and is spread on the land by the truckload. And the volume of WW coming from a small farm office toilet will be a miniscule and insignificant in comparison the total volume of slurry in the tank.

From a purely practical point of view it will work fine, won't be noticed and will be agitaged in and spread on the land without any issues arising.

However, the 3 issues with it are
1) workers will be exposed to the combined slurry and crap from the toilet. I'm sure they have strong constitutions but the real problem is that the human waste mixed in there might carry infectious pathogens that would not ordinarily be present in slurry. If one of your staff becomes ill around slurry time and it is later traced back to the toilet draining into the slurry tank, you'd have deal with the consequences of that. I am supposing it is a small risk, but at the end of the day it is a risk that cannot be ruled out.

2) As explained above, there are restrictions associated with land spreading of sewage. If a Dept of Ag or Bord Bia inspection is carried out and it picks up on the toiled draining to the slurry tank, you will have to answer for that and face the consequences for whatever regulations have been breached.

3) it 100% wouldn't pass muster with the planning authority. There is no question about it on this matter, you have to get planning for a septic tank or treatment system and build it according to the planning consent. End of. That said, even if the planning authority became aware of it, which is unlikely in itself, it would be very unlikely to top priority on the enforcement workload, unless there are serious complaints coming in from your staff or someone with a grudge. But you will likely be aware of that first if there is discontent on the farm.
Another way the lack of planning could come against you is if you decide to sell - it'll be raised as a non-compliance with planning laws. But even then, that is easily solved if push comes to shove - remove the offending toilet and infill the pipes with leanmix concrete. For a farm sale, this is not significant.

tbh, i'd be more worried about 1 and 2 than 3.

However again, that is not to say that it is not done. I am sure there are thousands of older farmhouses throughout the country with the domestic sewage just piped across the yard into the slurry tank. In fact, I was considering buying one such farm house a couple of years ago which was being sold separate from the yard. Once I discovered the dodgy sewage set up I walked away. A bank wouldn't lend for such a set up and the house site was such that there wasn't feasible to install a septic tank.

TheBoyConor

gardentrees wrote: »

If a toilet for farm workers were installed in a farm office and if the sewage were piped to an existing septic tank for a dwelling house, what would be the planning implications?

From a technical point of view, you need to be sure the septic tank and percolation area can handle the additional sewage. This will depend on :
a) the capacity of the existing set up in terms of the pe that it is designed for. (usually a moot point anyway because 90% of septic tanks and percolation areas are just thrown together in an ad hoc way without little or no thought given to correct design or quality of construction. And as for maintenance, lol:pac: what's that?)

b) the number of people using the house
c) the number of people using the office/farm toilet

From a planning point of view, you will need to prove that the technical requirements are satisfied if you happen to be called upon about it.

sydthebeat

TheBoyConor wrote: »

So, sure the slurry isn't treated at all either, and that is basically just piss and shít as well and is spread on the land by the truckload. And the volume of WW coming from a small farm office toilet will be a miniscule and insignificant in comparison the total volume of slurry in the tank.

From a purely practical point of view it will work fine, won't be noticed and will be agitaged in and spread on the land without any issues arising.

Completely illegal to spread non treated human waste on agri ground. It is not "fine" from any point of view.

Sludge from septic tanks is completely different as it has gone through a treatment process

TheBoyConor

Oh yes, i accept that it is illegal and there could be reprecussions for Op if things go pear shaped and there is a complaint or someone gets sick, as I have outlined. That said, there are probably many thousands of older farmhouses up and down the country doing exactly this with decades and nothing is coming of it.

Treament in a septic tank is only slight. No more than 1/3rd of the BOD is removed at best. It is the percolation area that does the real cleaning. of course, that is assuming proper construction and that the thing is maintained. And we all know that former is rare, and the latter is a complete fairytale because no-one ever maintains or desludges a septic tank or any treament system until it has reached breaking point and backs up after 10 or 15 years of neglect. Change my mind.
My sister has an aerobic treatment system that was installed 10 years ago. It was never desludged or checked on in any way. The blower probably konked out 5 years ago. I have told her this. But her take on it is that it isn't backing up, so what's the problem?

BryanF

Conor
you’re around long enough, to know better than to discuss breaking the Law.

Op,
Thread closed. You got your answer, planning required.

Same as the log cabin and office planning threads

Best to get a planning professional out to site and have your list of questions ready. They can at least give you options when they can see the situation..