Rejecting a new car under PCP

quokula

I bought a car under PCP just over a month ago. Within one day it developed a fault and I returned it to the dealership. It has been there indefinitely since while they attempt to fix the fault. I've been given a temporary replacement vehicle for the duration, though it is not the same model and it is a cheaper, smaller car.

They haven't been able to give me a date for when I will get the car back (previously they have given me multiple dates but then issues cropped up and they weren't able to meet them)

If this was a cash purchase, I'd simply be asking for a refund right now as the car is clearly not fit for purpose and right now it looks quite likely that I won't be getting it back until the new year, by which time I could have bought the same car with a 21 registration at no extra cost.

But given that it's a PCP agreement, how do my rights differ? The only advice I could find online is for the UK, which says that you should speak to the finance company as technically they are the ones the dealership would refund. In this case the dealership is Volkswagen and the finance company is Volkswagen bank.

I haven't approached the subject with them yet as I want to understand my rights before I do. They have nominally agreed to offer compensation after complaining but I've no clarity yet on what that compensation might be.

zg3409

If you accept and keep driving the temporary replacement then your are accepting the deal and won't get much if any compensation. As you say if it was a cash deal you would ask for refund, hand back loaner car and move on.

I would be ringing finance company and handing back loaner asap. If you want a full cancellation of the deal it will be a hard fight as dealer won't want car back.

Was PCP via dealer?

Assume nothing deaker says is true if not in writing.

ba_barabus

zg3409 wrote: »

If you accept and keep driving the temporary replacement then your are accepting the deal and won't get much if any compensation.

I suspect thats complete bollocks advice tbh. Although I'm very happy to accept it isn't if you could point to a source to support your point.

OP you need to investigate what the actual issue is and why the car hasn't been fixed.

Sadly due to Covid and the time of year lead time for parts delivery is being a problem. I've parts on the way since the middle of November from Czech Rep. and since the first week of December from Germany. Things are taking longer but they are on the way.

I would put in a call to VW Bank however as you're paying for a car you don't for an issue beyond your control. It's entirely possible they can help the situation move along.

As for compensation, I don't see currently how you're entitled to much more than you've been given. They're fixing the car, albeit slowly and have provided you with a courtesy car for your use. Finally, I'd imagine what they have offered is a goodwill gesture such as a free service.

quokula

ba_barabus wrote: »

OP you need to investigate what the actual issue is and why the car hasn't been fixed.

It's a software issue with the car (it's the new ID.3), every time I speak to them they're reinstalling / updating the software, a process which apparently takes over a day, then hitting a bug and restarting from scratch. So not waiting for "parts" as such but they've been waiting for software updates from Volkswagen with fixes to bugs they find.

ba_barabus wrote: »

As for compensation, I don't see currently how you're entitled to much more than you've been given. They're fixing the car, albeit slowly and have provided you with a courtesy car for your use. Finally, I'd imagine what they have offered is a goodwill gesture such as a free service.

The replacement is an egolf which is a fine car, but it is less spacious and worth a good bit less than what I'm paying, and more importantly it will be very borderline as to whether or not it is physically capable of driving the range I need it to over Christmas, which the car I'm paying for would be able to do with its larger battery.

I've been pretty patient up to now but the fact that the latest call today has indicated it's unlikely I'll have it when I need it for Christmas is really what's made me sick of the whole saga.

While I get that they are fixing the problem (eventually) and offering a replacement, for any consumer product other than a car this would be a straightforward no-questions-asked replacement with an identical item or refund under your statutory rights at this point.

ba_barabus

quokula wrote: »

It's a software issue with the car (it's the new ID.3), every time I speak to them they're reinstalling / updating the software, a process which apparently takes over a day, then hitting a bug and restarting from scratch. So not waiting for "parts" as such but they've been waiting for software updates from Volkswagen with fixes to bugs they find.

The following is not legal advice but should help.

Generally speaking you need to give them the opportunity to fix the car within a reasonable time frame to an as new condition. I'm not sure how long you've had it.

Personally speaking, I'd ask for a meeting with the dealer principal where you can outline the time frame for the resolution of the problems so far and that it has quickly fallen short. Outline that vague promises of future repairs by VW are not satisfactory.

I'd see what response you get then.

I wouldn't go in all guns blazing but I'd outline your issue, the steps so far and how you've been out of pocket. Give a date by which you want the car rectified and say you will follow this up in writing soon after the meeting. Outline what you would be happy with since repairs aren't forthcoming, replacement or refund etc.

Send the email asap after the meeting, CC whoever is dealing with your account in VW bank and also also if you can get the email of whoever is in overall charge of VW Ireland. Ask for a reply to acknowledge receipt of the email.

If they are unable to rectify at this point follow up again and inform them that unless they engage with you you will be going the legal/consumer support agency route etc etc

I'd also start by contacting VW Bank to find out what your rights are in this situation.

Main thing is stay calm, stay clear, stay focused

whippet

Good advice from ba_barabus.

My father in law has a new ID.3 - only 2 months old and he is fit to drive it through the front window of his VW dealer due to software issues. Twice he has been left sitting in a car with no power waiting on recovery - flat bed back to dealer

quokula

ba_barabus wrote: »

The following is not legal advice but should help.

Generally speaking you need to give them the opportunity to fix the car within a reasonable time frame to an as new condition. I'm not sure how long you've had it.

Personally speaking, I'd ask for a meeting with the dealer principal where you can outline the time frame for the resolution of the problems so far and that it has quickly fallen short. Outline that vague promises of future repairs by VW are not satisfactory.

I'd see what response you get then.

I wouldn't go in all guns blazing but I'd outline your issue, the steps so far and how you've been out of pocket. Give a date by which you want the car rectified and say you will follow this up in writing soon after the meeting. Outline what you would be happy with since repairs aren't forthcoming, replacement or refund etc.

Send the email asap after the meeting, CC whoever is dealing with your account in VW bank and also also if you can get the email of whoever is in overall charge of VW Ireland. Ask for a reply to acknowledge receipt of the email.

If they are unable to rectify at this point follow up again and inform them that unless they engage with you you will be going the legal/consumer support agency route etc etc

I'd also start by contacting VW Bank to find out what your rights are in this situation.

Main thing is stay calm, stay clear, stay focused

Thanks for the advice. What would typically be considered a "reasonable" timeframe? This is my first time to ever buy a new car having always bought second hand, I never imagined that this kind of thing might occur or what is considered reasonable.

As of right now it's been with them for 30 days (before which I had it for a day or two from new before needing to bring it back in) and they're indicating that it's most likely in the new year now so that will probably be at least 50 days.

ba_barabus

quokula wrote: »

Thanks for the advice. What would typically be considered a "reasonable" timeframe? This is my first time to ever buy a new car having always bought second hand, I never imagined that this kind of thing might occur or what is considered reasonable.

As of right now it's been with them for 30 days (before which I had it for a day or two from new before needing to bring it back in) and they're indicating that it's most likely in the new year now so that will probably be at least 50 days.

I'd already consider 30 days reasonable, probably best give them 7 working days from when they open in the new year just to cover yourself. Time of year isn't helping.

Lantus

Request a good old petrol or diesel to cover your mileage needs over xmas

Id3 is a great car so I hope the issues get resolved. You are not alone!!

California Dreamer

I would have thought that 30 days on a new car would be more than a reasonable amount of time to wait.

As BA said, speak to the dealer principal but I’d also cc VW Ireland, even go so far as to cc VW in Germany.

At this stage I wouldn’t think a new car should be a problem. There has to be a measure of goodwill on their behalf!

Calm is good, after 30 days I would be hopping off the wall. I would also make it a point to call in every day and ask for a progress report.

colm_mcm

California Dreamer wrote: »

I would have thought that 30 days on a new car would be more than a reasonable amount of time to wait.

As BA said, speak to the dealer principal but I’d also cc VW Ireland, even go so far as to cc VW in Germany.

At this stage I wouldn’t think a new car should be a problem. There has to be a measure of goodwill on their behalf!

Calm is good, after 30 days I would be hopping off the wall. I would also make it a point to call in every day and ask for a progress report.

Just on that last bit. It’s not a leak they’re looking for, or a part they need to swap. Unless VW fix their firmware it’s not gonna work. The dealer has no control over this, so ringing every day will only annoy the garage and make the OP even more stressed.
I’m not suggesting they lie down over this, but repeatedly calling the garage service department for an update will only kill whatever goodwill might be there.

Rrrrrr2

Why can’t they give you another ID3 in the meantime?

quokula

colm_mcm wrote: »

Just on that last bit. It’s not a leak they’re looking for, or a part they need to swap. Unless VW fix their firmware it’s not gonna work. The dealer has no control over this, so ringing every day will only annoy the garage and make the OP even more stressed.
I’m not suggesting they lie down over this, but repeatedly calling the garage service department for an update will only kill whatever goodwill might be there.

Yeah this is a weird one, I'm not calling every day but multiple times now when I have called I've been told they're installing the update and it will be ready the next day, then I call the next day only to be told something has gone wrong with the installation and they're back to square one waiting for another update.

Rrrrrr2 wrote:

Why can’t they give you another ID3 in the meantime?

I think they just don't have any in supply. I did get an ID3 replacement at first when they thought it was just an overnight fix and I'd be swapping back the next day. Once it became clear it was going to take longer they requested I return that as they needed it for test drives and they gave me the golf instead. At that point I had no problem swapping to the golf as I thought the work was going to take up to a week or so, I never expected it would still be going on with no end in sight a month later.

The guy I've been dealing with has escalated it to his manager and I have a call with them tomorrow so I'll see how it goes.

Rrrrrr2

Pity you didn't insist in keeping the loan ID3 at the point (hindsight is wonderful and you took it in good faith)- I'd say they'd have been a lot quicker had you done that and that ID3 was earmarked for elsewhere.
The excuses and continual back to square 1 would drive me nuts. I could understand a day or two of this , but over a month- this isn't good enough and sounds like they haven't a clue what they are doing and will drag on and on.

California Dreamer

colm_mcm wrote: »

Just on that last bit. It’s not a leak they’re looking for, or a part they need to swap. Unless VW fix their firmware it’s not gonna work. The dealer has no control over this, so ringing every day will only annoy the garage and make the OP even more stressed.
I’m not suggesting they lie down over this, but repeatedly calling the garage service department for an update will only kill whatever goodwill might be there.

Just on the last bit, the reason I say to call every day is mostly to have it on record that you are always asking about your new car which is a POS!

I would have thought that after a month goodwill has gone down the pan.

California Dreamer

quokula wrote: »

The guy I've been dealing with has escalated it to his manager and I have a call with them tomorrow so I'll see how it goes.

Only now they have escalated to the manager? :mad::mad:

Ok, now I would be hopping off the wall! I would have expected the sales/service people to escalate this after 7-10 days.

ba_barabus

quokula wrote: »

The guy I've been dealing with has escalated it to his manager and I have a call with them tomorrow so I'll see how it goes.

If you are not satisfied with a resolution after that call request a meeting with the dealership principal and go and meet them in person.

Casati

My view is that 30 days is a reasonable time and as that’s passed your next course of action should be to write to the dealer to formally reject the car. List the number of times you have made contact and how you have been continually let down and request your money back on the basis that along with 30 days having already expired that no timeline can be guaranteed to get the car back. If they say no then your next step might be to get a solicitor to write a letter. I would keep the head but it’s not time for a nice general chat with the dealer only for them to fob you off another month.

Christmas amounts to just three bank holidays in total, if the garage is not going to work on your car during other days and take holidays that is their choice, the clock doesn’t stop ticking. I understand they can offer you resolution of a replacement which would need to be another brand new ID3 in the same spec.

Regarding the PCP I could be wrong but I’m not sure what difference this makes- Ie you can pay off the balance owed to the finance company at any stage. If the dealer gives you money back you pay off the finance owing you pay VW bank. Indeed you can pay off the finance owing today if you have the cash, I paid off my last PCP with VW after 18 months.

Pedro32561

quokula wrote: »

I bought a car under PCP just over a month ago. Within one day it developed a fault and I returned it to the dealership. It has been there indefinitely since while they attempt to fix the fault. I've been given a temporary replacement vehicle for the duration, though it is not the same model and it is a cheaper, smaller car.

They haven't been able to give me a date for when I will get the car back (previously they have given me multiple dates but then issues cropped up and they weren't able to meet them)

If this was a cash purchase, I'd simply be asking for a refund right now as the car is clearly not fit for purpose and right now it looks quite likely that I won't be getting it back until the new year, by which time I could have bought the same car with a 21 registration at no extra cost.

But given that it's a PCP agreement, how do my rights differ? The only advice I could find online is for the UK, which says that you should speak to the finance company as technically they are the ones the dealership would refund. In this case the dealership is Volkswagen and the finance company is Volkswagen bank.

I haven't approached the subject with them yet as I want to understand my rights before I do. They have nominally agreed to offer compensation after complaining but I've no clarity yet on what that compensation might be.

I had a similar situation last year with a new car I bought on PCP. It spent around 6 weeks on and off in the garage and they gave me a replacement, which like you was not of the same standard. It was a hardware problem and they kept trying to diagnose and update software. Eventually they got approval to replace the hardware but the wrong parts were sent. Just had a chat at that stage with the dealer principal and we agreed it had gone on too long and I rejected the car. They took care of the PCP and arranged for it to be closed off and my repayments refunded. Was all fairly straightforward. You still have the exact same rights with PCP.

California Dreamer

Any update on this OP?

quokula

California Dreamer wrote: »

Any update on this OP?

I agreed to an offer of cash compensation that VW made, on the assumption it will be ready in early January. If it goes on any longer I might still need to escalate it again though.

California Dreamer

quokula wrote: »

I agreed to an offer of cash compensation that VW made, on the assumption it will be ready in early January. If it goes on any longer I might still need to escalate it again though.

You have more patience than me my friend!

Harpon

quokula wrote: »

I agreed to an offer of cash compensation that VW made, on the assumption it will be ready in early January. If it goes on any longer I might still need to escalate it again though.

How much was the cash compensation?

quokula

Harpon wrote: »

How much was the cash compensation?

It's the calculated value of the monthly PCP payment multiplied by the number of months it's been in the garage. When I bought the car I also took up an offer on the first edition ID3s that the first three months PCP payments are refunded anyway (which was an offer in anticipation of the initial cars having issues, but not quite extreme as I've experienced), so technically VW are paying me right now by refunding me twice.

That original offer was basically baked into the overall asking price though (first edition cars had a higher sticker price than the ones that followed without the refund offer) so it doesn't really work out that way, but it helps me feel slightly better about the situation.

Henry Ford III

Be careful OP. If you agreed to this as a "full and final settlement" your future options may be limited.

California Dreamer

Short term gain, and long term loss!

Either way you are still getting back a 1 year old mostly defective car!