Two million CCP party members imbedded around the world

silverharp

I dont believe the suggestion is that they are by default doing espionage or stealing corporate IPR around the world but there is certainly is a risk that some of them could get a tap on the shoulder from Chinese security if they were deemed useful.

It will be interesting to see if this is a nothing burger or if there will be any fallout from it?


https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6215946537001

13/12/2020|7min
A major leak containing a register with the details of nearly two million CCP members has occurred – exposing members who are now working all over the world, while also lifting the lid on how the party operates under Xi Jinping, says Sharri Markson.

Ms Markson said the leak is a register with the details of Communist Party members, including their names, party position, birthday, national ID number and ethnicity.

“It is believed to be the first leak of its kind in the world,” the Sky News host said.

“What's amazing about this database is not just that it exposes people who are members of the communist party, and who are now living and working all over the world, from Australia to the US to the UK,” Ms Markson said.

“But it's amazing because it lifts the lid on how the party operates under President and Chairman Xi Jinping”.

Ms Markson said the leak demonstrates party branches are embedded in some of the world’s biggest companies and even inside government agencies.

“Communist party branches have been set up inside western companies, allowing the infiltration of those companies by CCP members - who, if called on, are answerable directly to the communist party, to the Chairman, the president himself,” she said.

“Along with the personal identifying details of 1.95 million communist party members, mostly from Shanghai, there are also the details of 79,000 communist party branches, many of them inside companies”.

Ms Markson said the leak is a significant security breach likely to embarrass Xi Jinping.

suicide_circus

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-economy-grows-4-9-as-rest-of-world-struggles-with-coronavirus-11603073857

The source of the virus is also one of the few economies doing well because of it.

The CCP is going start buying up cheap assets, property, businesses etc in countries crippled by virus lockdowns.

The CCP knew before anyone else the world what this virus was like and did not stop international travel even when it had halted domestic flights.

Very hard not to be conspiratorial about it all

SEPT 23 1989

how much land and food processing facilities do the CCP own in this country?

PopZiggy

*most of country* I will chose to ignore this as I use my chinese smartphone

Gatling

Welcome to the new style of warfare ,

TheValeyard

The Chinese,

Not a great bunch of lads.

dhaughton99

This is CIA payback after the chiners released the names of CIA operatives and 9 were killed.

biko

The best part of this story is her name - Christine Fang

Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-Calif.) had a close relationship with an alleged Chinese spy, Christine Fang. Swalwell was one of the most prominent purveyors of the now-disproven conspiracy theory that Donald Trump had colluded with Russian intelligence to steal the 2016 election.
Yet it turns out that all the while Swalwell was spreading those lies, he knew that he had been cultivated and funded by a suspected Chinese intelligence operative.

biko

More locally, yes the Chinese are buying Irish assets.
Two-way trade between Ireland and China is estimated to have exceeded €14bn in 2017.

Dublin based Goodbody Stockbrokers is taken over by the Beijing government-backed Zhongze Group.

Government schemes such as the Immigrant Investment Programme, allow wealthy Chinese nationals who are being advised by Irish companies such as Bartra, to basically buy all the rights that go with being granted a residency visa.

PearseCork92

biko wrote: »

More locally, yes the Chinese are buying Irish assets.
Two-way trade between Ireland and China is estimated to have exceeded €14bn in 2017.

Dublin based Goodbody Stockbrokers is taken over by the Beijing government-backed Zhongze Group.

Government schemes such as the Immigrant Investment Programme, allow wealthy Chinese nationals who are being advised by Irish companies such as Bartra, to basically buy all the rights that go with being granted a residency visa.

The Zhongze deal collapsed and another Bank of China deal to take over Goodbody failed as well. AIB are the most likely buyers at this juncture.

They are in fact rather lucky the Zhongze deal collapsed as the parent company of Zhongze is a Chinese state owned military aerospace company with ties to the Peoples Liberation Army. The US has slapped restrictions on companies linked with the PLA so it may have made dollar transactions rather difficult.

biko

2 million spies, only China could pull that off.

biko

biko wrote: »

2 million spies, only China could pull that off.

If it's based off party membership/affiliation, then the number is likely to be much higher. Most people who grow up in China have some connection to the party. While party membership can be <somewhat> exclusive, there are many offshoot ways for normal people to be connected. Having that connection makes life much easier, with access to better jobs, a greater chance of social mobility, or favoritism in getting loans etc.

The point being that any Chinese national who has gone abroad (apart from the dirt poor) will likely have some past connection with the party.

At the same time though, whether they're interested in being an extension of Chinese foreign behavior (spying) is a different matter entirely. It depends on whether they ever want to return to China, and many who make it to foreign countries have zero desire to return.

Personally, I suspect the numbers who would be available for spying or such, would be much higher than 2 million. The indoctrination that Chinese people receive can be very strong depending on the individual, and whether they have families back in China, that can be used as leverage by Chinese security forces.

In any case, it's something that other countries like Israel and the US have been doing for decades. China has been on the receiving end of US nationals who engaged in 'spying' throughout the 50s/60s. It's not anything new.. and I suspect the same has been done by M.Eastern countries too.

Quantum Erasure

Well, they do say that one out of every six people in the world is Chinese

LuckyLloyd

suicide_circus wrote: »

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-economy-grows-4-9-as-rest-of-world-struggles-with-coronavirus-11603073857

The source of the virus is also one of the few economies doing well because of it.

The CCP is going start buying up cheap assets, property, businesses etc in countries crippled by virus lockdowns.

The CCP knew before anyone else the world what this virus was like and did not stop international travel even when it had halted domestic flights.

Very hard not to be conspiratorial about it all

It’s a little on the West though, isn’t it? China locked down hard and for as long as it took. We didn’t have the stomach to deal with the issue in the same way and achieve eradication even though they’d showed us how to. Their collective will on this matter has been far superior.

osarusan

Well-known in Australian education for years.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/chinese-spies-at-sydney-university-20140420-36ywk.html

Much of the monitoring work takes place in higher education institutions, including Sydney University and Melbourne University, where more than 90,000 students from mainland China are potentially exposed to ideas and activities not readily available at home.

Fairfax has interviewed lecturers and Chinese-born students who have suffered repercussions because of comments they made in Australian classrooms which were reported through Chinese intelligence channels. "I was interrogated four times in China," said a senior lecturer at a high-ranking Australian university.

Potentially any one of the thousands of Chinese students that arrive in Irish universities each year could be the same.

Gotta get those international fees though.

TheValeyard

How much money could I make for acting as a Chinese spy?

BattleCorp

TheValeyard wrote: »

How much money could I make for acting as a Chinese spy?

I'd say most of them don't do it for the money. More the brainwashing and not having your family back in China 'disappear'.

whisky_galore

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It’s a little on the West though, isn’t it? China locked down hard and for as long as it took. We didn’t have the stomach to deal with the issue in the same way and achieve eradication even though they’d showed us how to. Their collective will on this matter has been far superior.

That's after they tried to stifle stories of a then new virus getting out. I'll bet their fetid wet markets are still running.

If China told me today was Wednesday, I'd have to check the calendar.

AllForIt

TheValeyard wrote: »

How much money could I make for acting as a Chinese spy?

Exactly the same as every other Chinese spy makes I'd say.

biko

TheValeyard wrote: »

How much money could I make for acting as a Chinese spy?

Rather than positive enforcement I'd say we're talking negative enforcement.
Instead of what happens if you do it, what happens if you don't do it?

nj27

It would save a lot of future bloodshed on both sides if the rest world decided to occupy and control China tonight before they really start get their teeth into us.

fly_agaric

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It’s a little on the West though, isn’t it? China locked down hard and for as long as it took. We didn’t have the stomach to deal with the issue in the same way and achieve eradication even though they’d showed us how to. Their collective will on this matter has been far superior.

Yeah I don't believe the conspiracy theories re. the virus origins and the failure is on "us" collectively [our sheep-like/weak politicians mainly]. If the vaccine(s) magic bullet doesn't control the disease properly and there's another year of (near) double-digit GDP reductions vs pre-pandemic in Europe/the US things could get interesting. The Chinese will probably be on the mother of all shopping sprees for land, companies, technology etc in the West but one wonders if they'll be allowed to buy.

nj27

nj27 wrote: »

It would save a lot of future bloodshed on both sides if the rest world decided to occupy and control China tonight before they really start get their teeth into us.

Melodrama. China has little interest or capability to do anything of importance to the rest of the world, except through international diplomacy. For all the posturing, China is a long long way from becoming anything close to the powerhouse that the US used to be. They have too many internal problems, especially with regards to their military.

Any grief is likely to stay within the Asia region, or affect the US, due to their own intervention in Asia.

Overheal

So Sky News (Rupert Murdoch) is amplifying conspiracy theories to sow doubt in the US election, even China's media outlets are peddling it (eg. New Tang Dynasty America).

Assume bots are everywhere and use critical thinking.

fly_agaric

fly_agaric wrote: »

Yeah I don't believe the conspiracy theories re. the virus origins and the failure is on "us" collectively [our sheep-like/weak politicians mainly].

Agreed. I feel there's a lot of passing the buck here, especially considering the US investment of intelligence services against China, I'm highly skeptical that the virus was hidden for the length that was claimed.

If the vaccine(s) magic bullet doesn't control the disease properly and there's another year of (near) double-digit GDP reductions vs pre-pandemic in Europe/the US things could get interesting.

It's going to be interesting anyway due to the debt crunch and the inability of private business to repay/maintain their interest payments.

The Chinese will probably be on the mother of all shopping sprees for land, companies, technology etc in the West but one wonders if they'll be allowed to buy.

The question is whether they will be allowed to keep the purchases. In most cases, they've organised leasing of facilities rather than outright purchases. There's already been reneging of leasing agreements in Africa since covid happened.

As for outright purchases, the US isn't the only country with laws against foreign purchases of strategic properties/industries, and such laws are relatively easy to be brought in (since it relates to national defense). So, China buying these assets doesn't mean that they'll get to keep them. International opinion is such, that they won't receive much support in their claims, as opposed to if it was the US buying up industries.

biko

Plant spies to nudge everyone in China's favour
Spread the virus
Crash everyone's economy
Buy their stuff
Spread social credits systems
Rule the world

/conspiracy theory

fly_agaric

Deleted User wrote: »

Agreed. I feel there's a lot of passing the buck here, especially considering the US investment of intelligence services against China, I'm highly skeptical that the virus was hidden for the length that was claimed.

Yes, it was known by the US government that something odd (a new virus) was going on in Wuhan in late December/early January.
Many countries in Asia that would have received less warning for stopping incoming travel, testing for the virus, quarantining people etc. (due to being nearer to & more connected with China) nonetheless managed to deal with the virus far better than any Western country.

Deleted User wrote: »

The question is whether they will be allowed to keep the purchases. In most cases, they've organised leasing of facilities rather than outright purchases. There's already been reneging of leasing agreements in Africa since covid happened.

As for outright purchases, the US isn't the only country with laws against foreign purchases of strategic properties/industries, and such laws are relatively easy to be brought in (since it relates to national defense). So, China buying these assets doesn't mean that they'll get to keep them. International opinion is such, that they won't receive much support in their claims, as opposed to if it was the US buying up industries.

That's true but I would have thought it is easier to stop something happening beforehand than try and invoke "national security" etc after the fact.

Europe (I think) may be weaker than the US on this.
There is no EU level regulations (as far as I am aware) to keep them out as regards buying up or otherwise gaining control of assets.
I think EU politicians have talked about being more protectionist - that there isn't a level playing field between private EU companies investing in China (and subject to a load of rules) and the effectively state backed or state directed Chinese companies investing in Europe (where there's much less government oversight or constraints on action of foreign companies e.g. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/17/business/european-union-china-deals.html).

It will be down to individual member states. Some will be able to protect critical assets/companies (economies in a better state, security/investment laws on the books, governments that can't be bought off etc.) but there are many EU countries that won't care if the Chinese just wave enough money or can influence politicians.

Odhinn

nj27 wrote: »

It would save a lot of future bloodshed on both sides if the rest world decided to occupy and control China tonight before they really start get their teeth into us.

They have the bomb, so thats a non-runner.

So was Fr Ted wrong?

statesaver

Imagine my surprise.

Esel

What is the main take-away from this thread?

Overheal

Esel wrote: »

What is the main take-away from this thread?

That General Tso’s chicken.

That China has the capability and likely is, engaging in spying through the use of civilians.

conorhal

TheValeyard wrote: »

How much money could I make for acting as a Chinese spy?

'Bout fiddy cent..


Seriously though, look up the '50 cent army'

Since 2000, the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) has been mobilising what's colloquially known as the 50-cent army – internet trolls that sway public opinion in favour of the CCP.
The regime hires mostly government employees, at supposedly RMB 0.5 per post (hence its name) to fabricate lies and strike critics on social media.

Kermit.de.frog

Esel wrote: »

What is the main take-away from this thread?

racist :pac:

conorhal

conorhal wrote: »

'Bout fiddy cent..


Seriously though, look up the '50 cent army'

Since 2000, the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) has been mobilising what's colloquially known as the 50-cent army – internet trolls that sway public opinion in favour of the CCP.
The regime hires mostly government employees, at supposedly RMB 0.5 per post (hence its name) to fabricate lies and strike critics on social media.

Yup. You'd do better in the US. Join the NSA, get to do similar work, and get paid much better.

conorhal

conorhal wrote: »

'Bout fiddy cent..


Seriously though, look up the '50 cent army'

Since 2000, the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) has been mobilising what's colloquially known as the 50-cent army – internet trolls that sway public opinion in favour of the CCP.
The regime hires mostly government employees, at supposedly RMB 0.5 per post (hence its name) to fabricate lies and strike critics on social media.

SF do not even pay that rate

theguzman

As much as I dislike the Chinese Communists I think we should join the belt and road initiative and bring in the Chinese to build some proper infrastructure here like thousands of high rise apartments in Cork and Dublin, Dublin Metro and High-speed rail and a Motorway to every county. The cost of all this would be less than the billions squandered this year. Say what you like about the Chinese but they run a tight ship, make the important investments to grow the economy and know how to deal with criminals properly.

Life would be better off for Ireland if we were a colony of China than having corrupt FF destroy this country every generation again and again without any investment into the public system only mass theft and crony enrichment.

PearseCork92

theguzman wrote: »

As much as I dislike the Chinese Communists I think we should join the belt and road initiative and bring in the Chinese to build some proper infrastructure here like thousands of high rise apartments in Cork and Dublin, Dublin Metro and High-speed rail and a Motorway to every county. The cost of all this would be less than the billions squandered this year. Say what you like about the Chinese but they run a tight ship, make the important investments to grow the economy and know how to deal with criminals properly.

Life would be better off for Ireland if we were a colony of China than having corrupt FF destroy this country every generation again and again without any investment into the public system only mass theft and crony enrichment.

Belt and Road is being quietly canned. As a geopolitical influence operation it has been a failure, though you wont hear the China Daily say it. And on the debtor end, many of the projects are pork barrel bridges to nowhere where the loan conditions are frequently onerous. It's also injected windfalls of cash into unstable and corrupt countries and the money has disappeared into black holes. The political and social consequences of being in the red to China are not attractive, particularly for a stable developed democracy.

Western democracies can borrow on extremely favorable terms already.

The only thing China could offer is an army of engineers of dubious quality* and cheap labour displacing the breakfast roll man.

*Signature infrastructure projects in China are still heavily reliant on European and North American expertise, remember that when cooing at the latest Chinese megaproject being wheeled out on CGTN.

theguzman

theguzman wrote: »

Life would be better off for Ireland if we were a colony of China than having corrupt FF destroy this country every generation again and again without any investment into the public system only mass theft and crony enrichment.

I've lived almost 13 years in China now... and no no no no no no.... Ireland most certainly wouldn't be better off.

God no. That country is a mess. You really don't appreciate just how good Ireland is. Come live in China... once your honeymoon period is over (about 7 months), you'll start to see just how messed up that nation is.

Don't get me wrong. I have loved living in China as a foreigner.. but I would never want to be Chinese, or worse yet, a subject of China.

Mad_maxx

My sister toured South East Asia and China back in 2014 , she liked China the least by far

silverharp

Deleted User wrote: »

I've lived almost 13 years in China now... and no no no no no no.... Ireland most certainly wouldn't be better off.

God no. That country is a mess. You really don't appreciate just how good Ireland is. Come live in China... once your honeymoon period is over (about 7 months), you'll start to see just how messed up that nation is.

Don't get me wrong. I have loved living in China as a foreigner.. but I would never want to be Chinese, or worse yet, a subject of China.

I sub to a few anti CCP accounts on twitter and some of the videos make them seem like a very cold people, if you get run over or faint in the streets, people will just ignore you. I even saw one of a toddler being run over and no reaction, obviously #notall but still it says something.

silverharp

silverharp wrote: »

I sub to a few anti CCP accounts on twitter and some of the videos make them seem like a very cold people, if you get run over or faint in the streets, people will just ignore you. I even saw one of a toddler being run over and no reaction, obviously #notall but still it says something.

Ahh well, you know yourself that such accounts are biased to focus on the negatives. Yes, the avoidance of trouble is a strong part of their culture going back to the cultural revolution, and further back to the early days. They still have the culture of silence, and desperately avoid being noticed. The avoiding of someone hurt in the street, is the real fear of scams, which can result in blackmail, assault, or financial claims.

At the same time, my university students each semester go out on to the streets, and countryside to help the poor. We're talking about thousands of students heading into very poor areas to provide funds, clothes, and education to those who can't avail of the state benefits (for whatever reason). This is not a Party, University, or authority driven exercise... the students organise themselves, and do it all by themselves. I've found them doing such things in four different universities in two cities.

There's a lot of 'bad' in China.. there's also a lot of 'good'. It's a massive country... very complicated. It's a nation of contradictions, far more than any other country I've been to.

Mad_maxx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

My sister toured South East Asia and China back in 2014 , she liked China the least by far

Different strokes for different folks. And it depends on where she went, and the type of experiences she sought.

I'd place China about halfway on my list of countries that I liked... I found Thailand to be mostly worse than China, same with Cambodia. Whereas I'd place Vietnam, Korea, and Japan, high on my list... (although, I still love the city I live in now[Xi'an], and would put it very high in comparison to other cities I've lived in)

But I know people (m/f) who adore China.. and have lived there longer than I have. It really depends on your experience, and what your expectations were going in... simply travelling around a country does little to give any real insight about the place.

cnocbui

biko wrote: »

2 million spies, only China could pull that off.

You do realise that there is at least one Chinese restaurant in almost every town and village in Europe, The USA, Australia, NZ, etc?

Their network is massive and they have been building it for decades.

DrumSteve

cnocbui wrote: »

You do realise that there is at least one Chinese restaurant in almost every town and village in Europe, The USA, Australia, NZ, etc?

Their network is massive and they have been building it for decades.

Lol, if that's the case, we should have the largest spy network in the world with our pubs.