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Audi Electric Conversion DIY

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    #2
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,077 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Watched a few of his videos there. Will definitely revisit, thanks for sharing!

    In one of them he showed the vehicle licensing certificate that was re-issued, showing the car is now officially electric. I'd presume that now also means the car can be taxed as electric - €120 per year

    This will make conversion very attractive for older high motor tax cars. I have a Porsche Boxster sitting on my drive, that's now officially off the road. I taxed it last year for the year, which cost me €1080, and I think I took it out maybe 5 or 6 times. Won't be doing that again. I don't want to sell it either though, I know I will regret that. So converting could be an option at some stage. But it would have to be done on a tight budget.


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    #3
    Marlow
    Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    Epic. I watched a few of those videos and he's got it well thought through.

    I have an old 1978 Mk1 VW Scirocco GT sitting in the shed, that I originally had planned to convert to a R32 drivetrain, but changed my mind last year, when somebody I know helped in a BMW 840i electric conversion.

    Really liked that idea, so the Rocco is going electric eventually.

    /M


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    #4
    Orebro
    Registered Users Posts: 1,234 ✭✭✭Orebro


    Fabulous project very well executed.

    I can't help but smile at the Leaf bashing that goes on here, and yet it's good enough for the running gear of older sporty cars :D


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    #5
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,077 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    There were a lot of good reasons for Leaf bashing. At €30k and as the only family car, a Leaf with just about 80km motorway 120km/h range did not cut it. The same pack in a small (second) weekend sports /classic car with only the driver in it and a range of 80km on regional / local roads even with a now degraded battery is suddenly a different proposition altogether. Buy a working Leaf for about €3k and you have almost all the bits you need for a cheap conversion.


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    #6
    Orebro
    Registered Users Posts: 1,234 ✭✭✭Orebro


    unkel wrote: »
    There were a lot of good reasons for Leaf bashing. At €30k and as the only family car, a Leaf with just about 80km motorway 120km/h range did not cut it. The same pack in a small (second) weekend sports /classic car with only the driver in it and a range of 80km on regional / local roads even with a now degraded battery is suddenly a different proposition altogether. Buy a working Leaf for about €3k and you have almost all the bits you need for a cheap conversion.

    Gotcha - I guess a Porsche doing Leafspeed with its Tesco value batteries will be grand :) (Disclaimer: this is my car)


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    #7
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,077 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Leaf kit could do the trick, even in my Porsche :p

    I guess I would need about 350-400Nm though to match the current 0-60 performance of the car and ideally exceed the current acceleration off the line. I don't care about top speed. I guess that would mean hitting the battery with 5C now and then for a few brief moments :D I'd have the same problem though with any other setup too, if I will only fork out for about 20kWh of battery (it's all I need for range)


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    #8
    Marlow
    Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    Also ... nobody says, that you need to use the Leaf batteries. Or a Leaf motor for that sake.

    I mean .. Damien Maguire has shoe-horned whatsoever into various BMWs, a Range Rover and a RX8.

    - Fork-lift motors, Leaf motors, Tesla motor units.
    - Leaf batteries, Ampera batteries, Tesla batteries.
    - Lexus controller, Leaf VCM, Tesla VCM.

    All mix and match. Doesn't matter.

    For those who are not familiar with him .. check out https://www.youtube.com/evbmw

    And yes ... that BMW 840i, that he calls "The Panzer" is the one i referred to above. I know the lad that helped him with the BMW mix and match bits to make the Tesla motor fit. And that project was, that got me to reconsider the faith of the Rocco.

    /M


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    #9
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,077 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Marlow wrote: »
    Also ... nobody says, that you need to use the Leaf batteries. Or a Leaf motor for that sake.

    I mean .. Damien Maguire has shoe-horned whatsoever into various BMWs, a Range Rover and a RX8.

    - Fork-lift motors, Leaf motors, Tesla motor units.
    - Leaf batteries, Ampera batteries, Tesla batteries.
    - Lexus controller, Leaf VCM, Tesla VCM.

    All mix and match. Doesn't matter.

    Indeed. But he got some batteries at super cheap prices from dismantlers many years ago. That horse has bolted now, that's not gonna happen anymore. And he has electrical engineering skills that not many people have

    Leaf as a donor car is a very cheap way to convert as you would have nearly all electronics needed and everything is matched already. The motor can deliver 2-3 times the power it did in the original Leaf no bother, as long as you are prepared to live with a touch faster degeneration of the batteries :p

    You can buy a whole Leaf with tax and test for €3.5k while you wouldn't even get just the Tesla batteries (and nothing else) for that sort of money with comparable capacity. And the voltage of the system would be very low with just 4 Tesla modules in series that are only 24V or so nominal each


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    #10
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,077 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Marlow wrote: »
    And yes ... that BMW 840i, that he calls "The Panzer" is the one i referred to above. I know the lad that helped him with the BMW mix and match bits to make the Tesla motor fit. And that project was, that got me to reconsider the faith of the Rocco.

    Very exciting project converting your Scirocco, always loved the mk 1. Would you be confident enough you could handle it? Maybe with some help from that lad?


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    #11
    Marlow
    Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    unkel wrote: »
    Very exciting project converting your Scirocco, always loved the mk 1. Would you be confident enough you could handle it? Maybe with some help from that lad?

    There's some good forums about, with plenty of information. And Damian is the resource, when it comes to fitting a Tesla motor with a custom controller. At least on the hardware side. So I am intending on having a chat with him at some point. Loads of good info in his videos though.

    I'm not sure, if that drive unit would be too heavy. But if doable, it would be a fairly epic FWD electric classic GT car.

    /M


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    #12
    Marlow
    Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    unkel wrote: »
    Indeed. But he got some batteries at super cheap prices from dismantlers many years ago. That horse has bolted now, that's not gonna happen anymore.

    Nah. You can still pick up Tesla packs at decent enough pricing from the UK. But it doesn't have to be that. Plenty of alternative battery packs around.

    I mean .. you could even build your own battery pack from laptop 18650s, if you were so inclined :)

    I've seen a few very decent projects like that (more for off grid purposes than for EV use)

    /M


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    #13
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,077 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Marlow wrote: »
    There's some good forums about, with plenty of information. And Damian is the resource, when it comes to fitting a Tesla motor with a custom controller. At least on the hardware side. So I am intending on having a chat with him

    Good luck with that. He won't even answer a simple email or respond to any question on any of his YouTube videos unless you pay him for it. Unless of course you know someone who knows him personally.
    Marlow wrote: »
    Nah. You can still pick up Tesla packs at decent enough pricing from the UK.

    Not cheaper than about USD1k per module (which is about 5kWh), so USD4k for 20kWh of just batteries. €180 or so per kWh, plus shipping and possibly taxes. Which is not cheap in my book. Any link to considerably cheaper ones in the UK? Might pick up a pack or two if you do.

    You can buy a complete Leaf for less than that. Of course the Tesla batteries are superior and if money is no object any electrification should be based on a Tesla motor and batteries :D But on a shoe string, a Leaf is an attractive proposition.
    Marlow wrote: »
    But it doesn't have to be that. Plenty of alternative battery packs around.

    Most cost quite a bit of money. Per kWh of usable energy, the Leaf packs are reasonably good value. Or build your own. And no, not with 18650 batteries, I wouldn't recommend that :p I'd go LiFePo4 CALBs from China, about €130 per kWh including all shipping and all taxes to Ireland. That's for just the cells.


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    #14
    Marlow
    Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    unkel wrote: »
    Good luck with that. He won't even answer a simple email or respond to any question on any of his YouTube videos unless you pay him for it. Unless of course you know someone who knows him personally.

    Pssst :) ..

    And you have to appreciate, that he has to make a living some way or another. There is loads of "free" information in his videos. Can't get everything spoonfed for free.

    /M


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    #15
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,077 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Of course. I just noted it in a matter of fact way. Not pointing any finger. I have no idea what he does, but I get the impression all this stuff is his work and he doesn't have a day job, so indeed it needs to put bread on the table

    I wonder why he doesn't sell his converted cars though. You'd think he could make several grand profit per car doing that. And he seems very meticulous and compliant in his work, from several of his videos he gets his cars through the NCT and all, combined that with the re-certification of the Audi in Fiachra's video, so all the legal angles (and motor tax and insurance) must be covered and must be doable. Which is encouraging!


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    #16
    zg3409
    Registered Users Posts: 6,631 ✭✭✭zg3409


    unkel wrote: »
    Good luck with that. He won't even answer a simple email or respond to any question on any of his YouTube videos unless you pay him for it. Unless of course you know someone who knows him personally.

    I believe he is spending much of his time reverse engineering new hardware. He gets thousands of questions a week. His main way to help is running DIY conversion courses in Arklow. These are not free. They are run at non profit rates. See links above.

    Leaf conversions are ideal in terms of batteries, electronics, drive units and knowledge on conversions.
    They also have a big benefit compared to off the shelf conversion kits in terms of 50kW charging rate using ChaDeMo.

    A lot of the conversions in wales are 7kW Max rate, with possibly 11 or 22kW options. The ferrari converted in Wales is only 7kW!

    Even short range conversions with ChaDeMo gives you the possibility to travel further. 7KW means multiple days to cross Ireland. It makes a small battery somewhat live able.

    Damian is also working on CCS, and while the hardware exists as far as I know no one has a DIY working solution yet. They are actively working on this. I assume they might be able to Tesla supercharge, but if that is possible its probably kept quiet for fear Tesla disables from the public charger side.

    Small batteries, and battery prices are a problem. It also makes commercial conversions expensive. It makes existing conversions seem obsolete as sizes increase over the years.

    There is/was lots of talk about converting old ICE to EV for daily use, and creating jobs for mechanics. However the cost of labour and the hardware vs range vs new mean even if they were available demand might dry up. Many conversion shops are shipping DIY kits which suggest this might be larger market.

    Its also far easier for the likes of old beetle for example
    1) Old engine was air cooled and easy to remove, no messy water radiators
    2) Old car had no power steering, converted car has no power steering, vs converting hydraulic power steering to electric pumped power steering (do-able) but extra work
    3) No fancy ABS/Electronics/Dash computers to replace or interface.
    4) Lots of supplies of donor cars at relatively low cost with lots of spares off the shelf.
    5) Things like heaters, heated seats are all optional.

    If a pre-converted beetle or mini was for sale I would definitely consider it, particularly if it had the range for my commute.

    Doing a once off requires a lot of thinking, investigating, custom fabrication, possibly custom electronics or software, unless you want a leaf dash! Pumping out beetles might be viable, particularly for a mechanic that can do them in his spare time. Imagine a free FAS course on how to install a 'crate engine' EV into a beetle.


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    #17
    Marlow
    Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    zg3409 wrote: »
    They are actively working on this. I assume they might be able to Tesla supercharge, but if that is possible its probably kept quiet for fear Tesla disables from the public charger side.

    Tesla supercharging won't be happening unless you are able to fake a Tesla VIN in the handshake. That VIN then gets billed via Teslas app. So you'd also need the vehicle associated with that VIN in your Tesla account. And yes, once they figure that out, that VIN is going to be blacklisted.

    However, charging on superchargers like Ionity etc. would be possible, if CCS is implemented.

    ChaDeMo is already great to have. I know there is a ready to go kit in the US, that the Electrified Garage for example retrofits to Mk1 Roadsters. And 50kW will get you a recharge in a very decent short timespan.

    /M


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    #18
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,077 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Aware of everything in your post z3409 and I also agree with all of it
    zg3409 wrote: »
    His main way to help is running DIY conversion courses in Arklow. These are not free. They are run at non profit rates.

    The cost is €500 for a weekend course plus the cost of food / accommodation. There are several places still available for 2021

    Linky, check this out for and for contact details


    If I reckoned it was for me, I would have jumped at it. But unfortunately, it would be outside the scope of my abilities to convert my own car. The electronics I might dig, I've plenty of experience with computers, electric scooters, electric bikes, batteries, inverters, etc. but the mechanicals is where I would fail miserably :D


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    #19
    Marlow
    Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    zg3409 wrote: »
    Damian is also working on CCS, and while the hardware exists as far as I know no one has a DIY working solution yet. They are actively working on this. I assume they might be able to Tesla supercharge, but if that is possible its probably kept quiet for fear Tesla disables from the public charger side.

    I actually came across the video today, that goes into their progress with the Tesla charging door. It's from the start of this month.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xE5ythHlI0


    My 2c on what I take away from this: the aim is not not being able to connect to a Tesla Supercharger. That won't happen because of my sentiments above.

    However, that they seem to be trying is to reverse engineer and decode the Tesla charging ECU and charge door, so they can be used with other CCS DC superchargers (like Ionity) going forward.

    And that makes a lot of sense. Because the Tesla CCS components should be some of the easiest to get your hands on, especially on the secondary market. Plus, the comfort of the automated charge door is nice.

    /M


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    #20
    Marlow
    Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    Actually. There was an explanation (by David Fiddes) in the comments on that video:
    The idea is to use the Tesla charge port controller to act as an intermediary between an open source vehicle control/BMS ECU and the EVSE or DC fast charger. The reason for this is because CCS is a very large and complex standard which is only "open" if you pay the standards body many $$$. Compatibility between cars and chargers is also apparently a hot mess as a result. Tesla have done all the hard work in their charge port controller so we can piggy back off that by reverse engineering the CAN messages sent between a real Tesla and the charge port controller. There is also work underway to do a similar thing with the Hyundai Kona charge port controller. Both can be had for very little money.

    So according to that, my notion is spot on.

    /M


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