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Solar PV setup for €12k budget

  • 06-12-2020 6:19pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭✭✭ ncne


    Hi all!

    I was hoping you can help me choose a system to fit my goals & budget.

    I've already got 4 quotes, plus few more coming. Getting very different prices, product recommendations and sometimes conflicting info.

    - Co. Kerry
    - Roof: E/W (a bit more towards NE / SW)
    - 15kWh average daily use in Sep and Oct according to bill (€90 per month)
    ...we are 2 persons living a B2 rated 100sqm bungalow, A+ appliances, gas cooker, fire stove
    - No night rate
    - Heating / hot water: air-to-water heatpump (Mitsubishi Ecodan, 200L, 3kW)
    - Hot water diverter not required / doesn't fit
    - Always working from home, consuming most during the day
    - Getting EV in 2-3 years, driving 70km per week

    Our goals:
    - Get maximum grant
    - 80% average annual self-consumption
    - Be able to "survive" without grid, provided we will turn off hot water / heating and only rarely use hungry appliances
    - Be able to extend the system over 2-4 years to achieve 90% average annual self-consumption

    Our motivation is not necessarily to get quickest ROI. We are more after reducing our recurring living expenses. And we just like the idea of being as self-sufficient as possible, even though blackouts are rare where I live.

    Anything beyond 10 years is not really a concern to me (e.g. warranty), as I expect the technology will continue to improve rapidly ...and most likely I will just want to get the lastest tech in 10 years anyway (I know it might be wasted money), if my financial situation won't get worse.

    Meaning I'm happy to pay for quality if it benefits me straightaway and/or within the first 10 years, but I don't want to pay more for something that I will only benefit from over the span of 10+ years.

    Is this achievable with €12k (after grant)?

    From what I learned so far, for my goals it doesn't really make sense to pay for premium stuff like SolarEdge, LG, SolarWatt. I was thinking something like following:

    Inverter: Solax Hybrid 5kW
    ...I was told although ESB allows max 6kW, the biggest Solax Hybrid is 5kW something

    Panels: 8kWp* Longi / Q Cells
    ...oversizing assuming the excess DC can be used to charge the battery

    Battery: 6kWh
    ...planning to add to be near 10kWh

    Hot water diverter: not suitable / not required

    Monitoring kit: Solax I guess


    What do you think?
    The 5kW inverter is the corner stone of this system, due to ESB regulations, but also the installer I'm currently considering said that's the biggest (from Solax) I can have if I want batteries. However, if I'm wrong about ESB regulation (I've read about something that it's just for exporting back to the grid) and the 8kWp are not enough to do what we want, maybe a bigger inverter (Solaredge?) is required.


    Thanks!


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,178 ✭✭✭✭ DrPhilG


    You'll get more help here:

    https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058055040/50/#post115511855

    Also €12k is a huge budget for the job. Post on that other thread what you've been quoted, spec list etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭ mp3guy


    SolaX actually have a new all in one system that you might find interesting, data sheet available here https://www.solaxpower.com/x-ess-g4/. Biggest can output 7.5kW. Don't worry about the 6kW feed in limit, sufficiently smart inverters can limit the export amount.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭✭✭ ncne


    DrPhilG wrote: »
    You'll get more help here:
    Also €12k is a huge budget for the job. Post on that other thread what you've been quoted, spec list etc.

    It's good to hear €12k are a good budget. I saw the other thread, but hesitated to post there because I haven't really decided what kind of system / size and the quotes I got so far are not really comparable. But I will do once I have them. Thanks for the hint anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭✭✭ ncne


    mp3guy wrote: »
    SolaX actually have a new all in one system that you might find interesting, data sheet available here . Biggest can output 7.5kW. Don't worry about the 6kW feed in limit, sufficiently smart inverters can limit the export amount.

    Yeah I saw that one! I think the issue is with the installers that they don't like to jump on the new stuff that soon and stick to what they know.

    What is the main advantage of this all in one? From what I see just easier installation compared to buying separate components from them?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,081 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    I think your €12k is way overkill, just to give you an idea this is what I had installed last month...

    18 Canadian Solar 410w PERC Poly panels
    1 BPE 5 KW Hybrid Dual MPPT inverter.
    Safety isolating fireman's switch to solar panels.
    All DC cabling and isolators.
    All AC cabling and isolators
    All protection devices required to inverter.
    1 Battery to inverter. Pylon tec 2.4 kw including mounting bracket.

    I should point out I've poor aspect and heavy tree shading on my main string so hence oversized panels vs inverter

    Gross cost of €8,620, less grant of €3,000, net cost of €5,620
    Excellent job, really knowledgeable chap, well open to questions and all the work was really neat.

    Regarding the 5kW hybrid inverter versus 6kW (or bigger) you know you can always install micro inverters or a small second inverter alongside a 5kW hybrid at very little extra cost.

    PM me if you want installer details.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,884 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    slave1 wrote: »
    I think your €12k is way overkill

    +1

    And your €5.6k 7kwp system would produce about 7MWh per year if it was south facing

    The OP only needs 365 days * 15kWh = 5.5MWh which is roughly achievable with his orientation

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭✭✭ ncne


    slave1 wrote: »
    I think your €12k is way overkill, just to give you an idea this is what I had installed last month...
    [...]
    Gross cost of €8,620, less grant of €3,000, net cost of €5,620
    Excellent job, really knowledgeable chap, well open to questions and all the work was really neat.

    Regarding the 5kW hybrid inverter versus 6kW (or bigger) you know you can always install micro inverters or a small second inverter alongside a 5kW hybrid at very little extra cost.
    unkel wrote: »
    +1

    And your €5.6k 7kwp system would produce about 7MWh per year if it was south facing

    The OP only needs 365 days * 15kWh = 5.5MWh which is roughly achievable with his orientation

    Great, good to hear my €12k is an overkill.

    Just got another quote for:
    Solax Hybrid 5kW
    Q Cells 7kWp
    5.8kWh Solax battery
    Fireswitch, ESB, all the other bits and bobs
    €13k after grant, so w/o grant it would be €16k. Sound a too much to me...

    I will post the quotes in the dedicated thread once I have a few more.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,884 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Far too high. Ask for a few PMs from slave1, DrPhil and a few others that we know have had a good install done by a decent installer for very reasonable money.

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,884 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    And remember they were all in your position too, and the reason they got good value for money is because they looked on here and they got advice and PMs too :)

    Great to see how this forum benefits others!

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭✭✭ ncne


    unkel wrote: »
    Far too high. Ask for a few PMs from slave1, DrPhil and a few others that we know have had a good install done by a decent installer for very reasonable money.
    unkel wrote: »
    And remember they were all in your position too, and the reason they got good value for money is because they looked on here and they got advice and PMs too :)
    Great to see how this forum benefits others!

    Yes, definitely!
    I'm happy to pay extra for good quality and workmanship, but some guys just want to rip one off...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭✭✭ ncne


    ...also I'm wondering if it's better to buy all the (at least main) components myself and just pay for the installation and maybe cables, fixings etc.?
    I'm happy to do all the research myself, talk to the suppliers etc., making sure the stuff fits together.

    Or do most installers avoid doing this, because it's easier to make a good margin for them if they supply & fit the whole package?

    What would be fair price for installing 22 panels, one inverter, one battery, fire switch, ESB, no hot water diverter? €1000? €2000? More?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,178 ✭✭✭✭ DrPhilG


    ncne wrote: »
    ...also I'm wondering if it's better to buy all the (at least main) components myself and just pay for the installation and maybe cables, fixings etc.?
    I'm happy to do all the research myself, talk to the suppliers etc., making sure the stuff fits together.

    Or do most installers avoid doing this, because it's easier to make a good margin for them if they supply & fit the whole package?

    What would be fair price for installing 22 panels, one inverter, one battery, fire switch, ESB, no hot water diverter? €1000? €2000? More?

    Looking back I might have fared better doing that. But as you say it's hit and miss whether installers would want to play ball.

    My guy charged €200 per additional panel installed. The cost to me to buy them (I looked later) was about €110 each. Not sure if that includes all connections/cabling etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭ graememk


    ncne wrote: »
    ...also I'm wondering if it's better to buy all the (at least main) components myself and just pay for the installation and maybe cables, fixings etc.?
    I'm happy to do all the research myself, talk to the suppliers etc., making sure the stuff fits together.

    Or do most installers avoid doing this, because it's easier to make a good margin for them if they supply & fit the whole package?

    What would be fair price for installing 22 panels, one inverter, one battery, fire switch, ESB, no hot water diverter? €1000? €2000? More?

    When installed by an installer they are getting it at trade prices, also when billing you charge 13.5% Vat.

    If you bought them yourself you'd have to pay 21%.

    I think for the grant it would all need to go through the installer (I think)

    Midsummer.ie /solartricity.ie can give you an estimate of what things would cost material wise.

    Trade prices can be 10-20% off that again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭✭✭ ncne


    Yeah I'll probably do everything through an installer, as I hope it is just this one guy who wants €15000 for a package with just €10000 worth of materials (incl. VAT and deliery!).

    I already emailed midsummer.ie and zerohomebills to get quotes. Will check out solarcity, thanks


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,884 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    ncne wrote: »
    I already emailed midsummer.ie and zerohomebills to get quotes. Will check out solarcity, thanks

    Solartricity is an Irish company and the owner posts on this forum (never trying to sell anything or promote his company), he has several decades of experience with renewables and he gives excellent advice. Their prices are as good as it gets in this country too.

    I'm only sayin'...

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,790 ✭✭✭ irishchris


    unkel wrote: »
    Solartricity is an Irish company and the owner posts on this forum (never trying to sell anything or promote his company), he has several decades of experience with renewables and he gives excellent advice. Their prices are as good as it gets in this country too.

    I'm only sayin'...

    Didn't realise he was in this forum but yes agree definitely best value I have come across. Just purchased all the items for my self-install about two weeks ago and by far cheapest around for the quality of materials I ordered


  • Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭✭✭ ncne


    Thanks, will contact them


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