Its not confidential, I got potential! I think...

SpitfireIV

Hi all!

Another one of 'these' questions I guess but having read through a few threads I figured it might be no harm to throw out my own unique circumstances and see what you can offer.


Up until October I was working on a part time basis in the tourism sector, as you are aware that has been decimated and my particular employer is currently considering voluntary or statutory redundancy for a number of our small staff force. While working part time on my days off I have been working on a passion and interest of mine in the woodworking realm, producing high spec dashboards and other interior wooden trim panels for a range of classic cars. I've had a lot of demand particularly from America, mainland Europe and the United Kingdom. I am certain and know there is a need and demand for this type of quality work with the room to expand into many marques of vechicles and all kinds of custom work. As far as I'm aware there is no one else in Ireland specialising in this area, and while there is not 'that' big of a classic car mrket in Ireland there is the novelty factor that I think a lot of Americans in particular like about having a hand made dashboard custom made in Ireland!

Problem is, I'm not a business head! I can produce these things day in day out no problem, but its the business side of things that freak me out. Now, in saying that I really want to do this and feel its something I could succeed at once I can get the ball rolling. I have done a LEO Start Your Own Business classes but I found it a lot of take on and a lot of different people with very different ideas and start ups, I feel like I'd need someone I could talk to one on one who could tell me 'this is what YOU do' etc etc.

I'm in a fortunate situation that I have my own (small) workshop, adequate set up of tools and machinery and proven clients, so theres no start up costs really associated with this. But it is daunting, I guess what I'm afraid of is the finance side of things, giving that I'm currently on the PUP as a result of job loss and facing redundancy is there help perhaps from social welfare for a period for those starting up a business? Or breaks for those starting out and looking to establish themselves?

Any thoughts?

is_that_so

Talk to your LEO about mentor programmes. Banks too may be able to help you, they have lots of advisers. Own up to them about your fears.

EDIT: Also look up your local council and see what grants they might be offering to (new) businesses.

PickYourName

I'd second that advice: definitely talk to your local LEO. They do exactly what you're looking for (i.e. support people looking at starting a business).

They either run or can recommend training courses. I'd suggest a general "start your own business" course.

They also have mentorship programs, which can be very useful. These hook you up with someone who has expertise in particular areas you might need help on.

Regardless of whether you need one or not (you'll need one if you need to raise finance), I'd strongly recommend you write yourself a business plan. By following a template (there are loads, but typically they all follow a similar format), they force you to think about and articulate all aspects of the business. That is, if you have to write the "Market and Marketing" section, you have to think about who you're selling to and how you reach them.

At some point point, you'll have to engage professional support, e.g. an accountant, but I'd defer that until you've a better handle on what you need. They will be happy to advise, but they're equally happy to charge well for it.

By the way, I think it's an excellent idea, from a couple of perspectives: low startup costs, ability to start small and grow from there etc.

Best of luck!

PickYourName

One additional thought: it is so much easier to give advice to something specific like this, then "I have an idea, but it's a secret" type post.

SpitfireIV

SpitfireIV wrote: »

Hi all!

Another one of 'these' questions I guess but having read through a few threads I figured it might be no harm to throw out my own unique circumstances and see what you can offer.


Up until October I was working on a part time basis in the tourism sector, as you are aware that has been decimated and my particular employer is currently considering voluntary or statutory redundancy for a number of our small staff force. While working part time on my days off I have been working on a passion and interest of mine in the woodworking realm, producing high spec dashboards and other interior wooden trim panels for a range of classic cars. I've had a lot of demand particularly from America, mainland Europe and the United Kingdom. I am certain and know there is a need and demand for this type of quality work with the room to expand into many marques of vechicles and all kinds of custom work. As far as I'm aware there is no one else in Ireland specialising in this area, and while there is not 'that' big of a classic car mrket in Ireland there is the novelty factor that I think a lot of Americans in particular like about having a hand made dashboard custom made in Ireland!

Problem is, I'm not a business head! I can produce these things day in day out no problem, but its the business side of things that freak me out. Now, in saying that I really want to do this and feel its something I could succeed at once I can get the ball rolling. I have done a LEO Start Your Own Business classes but I found it a lot of take on and a lot of different people with very different ideas and start ups, I feel like I'd need someone I could talk to one on one who could tell me 'this is what YOU do' etc etc.

I'm in a fortunate situation that I have my own (small) workshop, adequate set up of tools and machinery and proven clients, so theres no start up costs really associated with this. But it is daunting, I guess what I'm afraid of is the finance side of things, giving that I'm currently on the PUP as a result of job loss and facing redundancy is there help perhaps from social welfare for a period for those starting up a business? Or breaks for those starting out and looking to establish themselves?

Any thoughts?

It shouldn't be daunting to you at all. You've already established the product, and the demand and you are doing it in an artisanal way so if the demand is what you say it is your already 99% of the way there. So you just need to get your ass into gear now and set things up properly so you can make money right off the bat. No need for social welfare.

Setup your social media pages, particularly instagram and start posting content every day. If you want to build a cheap website do it on Squarespace for a few hundred euro yourself and let people see your work, explain how you take orders, your process etc.
Then take advance orders through there and from the existing demand you mentioned, make them pay a deposit first and half way make them pay another instalment - if the work is taking a long time per piece. Then you have cashflow to keep yourself going. Full payment before shipping.
Get your shipping lined up for your finished product so you know how much its going to cost and include it in the overall price from the beginning.
Register a business name and set up as a sole trader, get a VAT number, set up a business account in the bank.
If you are good at this and there is demand you will get backed up on orders for months in advance like most small artisanal manufacturers of this kind of stuff. I know guys like Knife Makers who are backed up for a year with orders.

Do not be afraid of setting up a business its really basic basic stuff. Get in the right mindset and don't be procrastinating. The battle is having the product and the demand which you already have. Don't even worry about the miniscule Irish market when you can export these pieces to people worldwide. Just do the leg work and make sure you are on top of shipping, customs, packaging etc.

antoinolachtnai

One thing I would add is to think about pricing and what you need to charge in order to make as much doing this as you did in your old job. Bear in mind stuff like VAT.

For orders going to the US you don’t need to charge VAT and this makes a crucial difference.

Mostly this is an exercise in multiplication and long division which you need to do yourself. But it is worth talking to an accountant early on to make sure you haven’t missed any critical costs.

BnB

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

One thing I would add is to think about pricing and what you need to charge in order to make as much doing this as you did in your old job. Bear in mind stuff like VAT.

For orders going to the US you don’t need to charge VAT and this makes a crucial difference.

Mostly this is an exercise in multiplication and long division which you need to do yourself. But it is worth talking to an accountant early on to make sure you haven’t missed any critical costs.

I would echo that for sure. A common mistake made by new companies is to under-price their products to try and get started (I know - I did it myself for years)

Your idea above is something that I would be saying, you should look to make a very very decent margin on. It is not a product that is going to be decided just on price - You're not selling something simple like printer paper where everyone just wants the cheapest one available. You are selling a niche product to a passionate market. You are selling to the type of people who (hopefully) will see your product and just want it (and the story behind it) - regardless of cost.

Put your price high from the start - and that will give you the scope to lower it in the future if you wish. Especially, if you start dealing maybe with some car clubs or something like that. If you start with a high price - You could then (just for example) offer a 20% discount to members of Car Club X (as a marketing tool). If you start off with a price that leaves your margins already tight - you can never do this.

JMR

BnB wrote: »

I would echo that for sure. A common mistake made by new companies is to under-price their products to try and get started (I know - I did it myself for years)

Your idea above is something that I would be saying, you should look to make a very very decent margin on. It is not a product that is going to be decided just on price - You're not selling something simple like printer paper where everyone just wants the cheapest one available. You are selling a niche product to a passionate market. You are selling to the type of people who (hopefully) will see your product and just want it (and the story behind it) - regardless of cost.

Put your price high from the start - and that will give you the scope to lower it in the future if you wish. Especially, if you start dealing maybe with some car clubs or something like that. If you start with a high price - You could then (just for example) offer a 20% discount to members of Car Club X (as a marketing tool). If you start off with a price that leaves your margins already tight - you can never do this.

This is great advice and very valid in this particular scenario.
One thing I would add is to try as best you can to ensure the brand you portray via your website and social media pages reflects the luxury / exclusive price tag attached to your product.
Research other niche luxury brands to get a feel for how they present themselves. It doesn't have to cost more to do this.

CelticRambler

Deleted User wrote: »

If you are good at this and there is demand you will get backed up on orders for months in advance like most small artisanal manufacturers of this kind of stuff. I know guys like Knife Makers who are backed up for a year with orders.

I'll see your knife makers and raise you a set of hand-made pipes, of the playable kind! I know a guy who has a ten year waiting list for the instruments that he sells for a five-figure sum. He's said to me that he's stopped taking new orders now because he reckons he'll be dead before he can fulfil them (he's in his late sixties and has already suffered one stroke) - and he's prioritised the outstanding orders on the basis of who has demonstrated the best artistic potential (have to have one at least one high-level competition).

When you get into the high-quality artisanal market, customers are driven by more than price, and will put up with a surprising level of "inconvenience" to get what they want. The key to managing this constructively is to keep in touch, even if it's only let them know that you've made no progress. When you're dealing with wood-based products in particular, the story of the wood (or embellishments) becomes the story of the whole piece. Don't be afraid to tell your customers that there's a delay because someone stole the consignment of exotic hardwood you were waiting for and you have to personally go down to Zimbabwe to get a replacement plank!

fionagalway

SpitfireIV wrote: »

I'm in a fortunate situation that I have my own (small) workshop, adequate set up of tools and machinery and proven clients, so there's no start-up costs really associated with this. But it is daunting, I guess what I'm afraid of is the finance side of things, giving that I'm currently on the PUP as a result of job loss and facing redundancy is there help perhaps from social welfare for a period for those starting up a business? Or breaks for those starting out and looking to establish themselves?

Any thoughts?

There is a short term enterprise allowance and back to work enterprise allowance for people on job seekers benefit/allowance, you get to keep your benefits for a length of time and also can get financial support for your business.

Not sure how it works for PUP but it would be worth looking into.