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Do I need a meal silo/bin?

  • 02-12-2020 9:36pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭ 893bet


    As it stands we calf 16 suckler cows using AI. Prob 20 next year as we are keeping on a few nice heifers. Sell the best calves as at approx 12 months and keep on the rest for second summer of grass and sell at 18-24 months usually. Finish very few ourselves so we may try a few.

    Feed approx 8-9t of ration a year but expect that to increase next year to 12t due to the few extra heads and the plan to finish a few

    Same stuff we give to the weanlings, stores and cows (if they need a bit extra during the winter period).

    Current situation
    I buy bulk and collect it in big bag, usually 0.3t at a time. In the winter these means every Saturday I spend approx 45mins to 75mins on this task depending on the que between going, collecting, coming home and unloading. Cost is 240 a tonne. 16% protein. Arrabawn beef mix 16.
    Future option 1
    Dairygold does delivery. Can get delivered by the pallet. Cost an 307.50 a tonne. So poison dear really but its a different product but I think its all 16% protein

    So and 67.50 a tonne...... but it means 3 hours+ back in my pocket and obviously less diesel spent. My time is precious. At the same time 70 quid for 3 hours work……

    Future option 2
    Install a meal bin for bulk delivery, assume a 3-4T bin is plenty



    1. Is there as minimum order qty typically??
    2. Whats the rough cost of a bin? (wont go for TAMs as don't want to draw inspection of slurry storage)
    3. What is the current cost of ration delivered from someone like Roches? Or Dan o Connors? Dairy gold bulk delivery is 287 so still significantly dearer than current rate.
    4. Assuming a minimum order qty means i have to get 3 tonne how will it hold in the bin? likely to get damp over time?


    Bonus question
    What would you do or advice me to do?


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 778 ✭✭✭ older by the day


    Well I am a bin fan. They are so clean. No waste. Free from birds mice and rats. But at 240 euro, it's a good price. Have you anything to take a ton at a time. I'm sure you could get the 287 down with a pay on delivery. There is probably some crowd cheaper.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,908 ✭✭✭✭ _Brian


    We use an ibc tank with top cut off. I got it filled with beef but there last Saturday and it took 770kg.

    Lifted off with loader at home.

    Never any problems with mice/rats.


  • Registered Users Posts: 362 ✭✭ Theheff


    893bet wrote: »
    As it stands we calf 16 suckler cows using AI. Prob 20 next year as we are keeping on a few nice heifers. Sell the best calves as at approx 12 months and keep on the rest for second summer of grass and sell at 18-24 months usually. Finish very few ourselves so we may try a few.

    Feed approx 8-9t of ration a year but expect that to increase next year to 12t due to the few extra heads and the plan to finish a few

    Same stuff we give to the weanlings, stores and cows (if they need a bit extra during the winter period).

    Current situation
    I buy bulk and collect it in big bag, usually 0.3t at a time. In the winter these means every Saturday I spend approx 45mins to 75mins on this task depending on the que between going, collecting, coming home and unloading. Cost is 240 a tonne. 16% protein. Arrabawn beef mix 16.
    Future option 1
    Dairygold does delivery. Can get delivered by the pallet. Cost an 307.50 a tonne. So poison dear really but its a different product but I think its all 16% protein

    So and 67.50 a tonne...... but it means 3 hours+ back in my pocket and obviously less diesel spent. My time is precious. At the same time 70 quid for 3 hours work……

    Future option 2
    Install a meal bin for bulk delivery, assume a 3-4T bin is plenty



    1. Is there as minimum order qty typically??
    2. Whats the rough cost of a bin? (wont go for TAMs as don't want to draw inspection of slurry storage)
    3. What is the current cost of ration delivered from someone like Roches? Or Dan o Connors? Dairy gold bulk delivery is 287 so still significantly dearer than current rate.
    4. Assuming a minimum order qty means i have to get 3 tonne how will it hold in the bin? likely to get damp over time?


    Bonus question
    What would you do or advice me to do?

    I dont want to be buzz kill here but I think you need to be trying to correct your slurry storage facilities before expanding your herd. Last thing you want is an inspection regardless of a grant for a meal bin. Strong talks of TAMs for 2021.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,650 ✭✭✭ White Clover


    The compartments in the lorry usually hold 4 tonne. Your bin would want to be capable of holding this plus a little, if not totally empty when refilling.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,769 ✭✭✭ Jb1989


    Have you got loader or any way of lifting off a few well made one tonne bins.
    They are handy regarding flexibility. At least if you cattle went out earlier or something you'd have less meal lying about than a big bin maybe full of it.
    0.3 tonne is small. A one tonne bin would cut your travelling down to every 3 weeks. Or two bins would cut to every 6 weeks.
    If no loader The cost of a big bin could buy a nice double axle trailer with a 1 tonne bin in it that could sit in it all winter, but when removed in the summer time you'd have the trailer for other jobs.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭ charolais0153


    893bet wrote: »
    As it stands we calf 16 suckler cows using AI. Prob 20 next year as we are keeping on a few nice heifers. Sell the best calves as at approx 12 months and keep on the rest for second summer of grass and sell at 18-24 months usually. Finish very few ourselves so we may try a few.

    Feed approx 8-9t of ration a year but expect that to increase next year to 12t due to the few extra heads and the plan to finish a few

    Same stuff we give to the weanlings, stores and cows (if they need a bit extra during the winter period).

    Current situation
    I buy bulk and collect it in big bag, usually 0.3t at a time. In the winter these means every Saturday I spend approx 45mins to 75mins on this task depending on the que between going, collecting, coming home and unloading. Cost is 240 a tonne. 16% protein. Arrabawn beef mix 16.
    Future option 1
    Dairygold does delivery. Can get delivered by the pallet. Cost an 307.50 a tonne. So poison dear really but its a different product but I think its all 16% protein

    So and 67.50 a tonne...... but it means 3 hours+ back in my pocket and obviously less diesel spent. My time is precious. At the same time 70 quid for 3 hours work……

    Future option 2
    Install a meal bin for bulk delivery, assume a 3-4T bin is plenty



    1. Is there as minimum order qty typically??
    2. Whats the rough cost of a bin? (wont go for TAMs as don't want to draw inspection of slurry storage)
    3. What is the current cost of ration delivered from someone like Roches? Or Dan o Connors? Dairy gold bulk delivery is 287 so still significantly dearer than current rate.
    4. Assuming a minimum order qty means i have to get 3 tonne how will it hold in the bin? likely to get damp over time?


    Bonus question
    What would you do or advice me to do?

    Seems to me like an awful lot of meal to me
    A 5ton bin would cost 2k ish, last forever, and easier than bucketing out of jfc bins which is the other option,


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭ 893bet


    quote="older by the day;115494894"]Well I am a bin fan. They are so clean. No waste. Free from birds mice and rats. But at 240 euro, it's a good price. Have you anything to take a ton at a time. I'm sure you could get the 287 down with a pay on delivery. There is probably some crowd cheaper.[/quote]

    Tractor and trailer could take close to a tonne in bags but then it’s a three hour job due to distance and miserable enough in the tractor which is not the most comfortable and not as road worthy as it could be
    _Brian wrote: »
    We use an ibc tank with top cut off. I got it filled with beef but there last Saturday and it took 770kg.

    Lifted off with loader at home.

    Never any problems with mice/rats.

    Sounds interesting. Do you mean one of the below as such? Bringing 0.6 halves the problem.

    https://www.donedeal.ie/gardenequipment-for-sale/1000l-food-water-grade-ibc-tanks-containers/26677890

    Theheff wrote: »
    I dont want to be buzz kill here but I think you need to be trying to correct your slurry storage facilities before expanding your herd. Last thing you want is an inspection regardless of a grant for a meal bin. Strong talks of TAMs for 2021.

    Not expanding. Just keeping a few extra on as only took reins this year so need to figure out a way to not end up with a large tax bill. The 4 we are keeping on....if sold would mean a 2k bill extra on top. Going to push that problem to next year....!

    Any suggestions on cost effective way of upgrading slurry storage? We have three bay slatted tank and an old slurry pit that we could agitate and pump to of required. We never run short of space as such but the strange rules and weeks required are relatively draconian. Outdoor slurry pit is almost useless as per the rules basically the top 3 feet are ignored from a storage point of view.

    Jb1989 wrote: »
    Have you got loader or any way of lifting off a few well made one tonne bins.
    They are handy regarding flexibility. At least if you cattle went out earlier or something you'd have less meal lying about than a big bin maybe full of it.
    0.3 tonne is small. A one tonne bin would cut your travelling down to every 3 weeks. Or two bins would cut to every 6 weeks.
    If no loader The cost of a big bin could buy a nice double axle trailer with a 1 tonne bin in it that could sit in it all winter, but when removed in the summer time you'd have the trailer for other jobs.

    We do have a loader but preference is to collect with car so limited in what we can carry

    Seems to me like an awful lot of meal to me
    A 5ton bin would cost 2k ish, last forever, and easier than bucketing out of jfc bins which is the other option,

    It does sound like a lot. I may be over estimating. Need to review the meal dockets! Perhaps I am over estimating.


  • Registered Users Posts: 682 ✭✭✭ dohc turbo2


    I got a tipsy bin few weeks ago , mighty job , I was lookin at tams2 grant for a meal bin but I don’t use enough to go to the trouble , I get the large bulk back in the local mill and fill the bin , nice and clean and tidy


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,747 ✭✭✭ ganmo


    Could you get a pallet of small bags delivered? Yes they're dearer than bulk but if you're more concerned about your time it might be worthwhile

    You're using 300kg a week, 1.2T a month. With a normal min bulk delivery of 3.5T you're not using enough to justify it imo.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭ 893bet


    ganmo wrote: »
    Could you get a pallet of small bags delivered? Yes they're dearer than bulk but if you're more concerned about your time it might be worthwhile

    You're using 300kg a week, 1.2T a month. With a normal min bulk delivery of 3.5T you're not using enough to justify it imo.

    That’s future option 1 above at 307.5eurp per tonne. So adding up over a year. As some one mentioned the yearly usage sounds high so I suspect I am over estimating and it’s likely a few tonne lower.

    Finding a way to carry 0.6t home in bulk at 240 a t seems the best option so far.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,908 ✭✭✭✭ _Brian


    893bet wrote: »
    quote="older by the day;115494894"]

    Sounds interesting. Do you mean one of the below as such? Bringing 0.6 halves the problem.

    https://www.donedeal.ie/gardenequipment-for-sale/1000l-food-water-grade-ibc-tanks-containers/26677890




    Not expanding. Just keeping a few extra on as only took reins this year so need to figure out a way to not end up with a large tax bill. The 4 we are keeping on....if sold would mean a 2k bill extra on top. Going to push that problem to next year....!

    Any suggestions on cost effective way of upgrading slurry storage? We have three bay slatted tank and an old slurry pit that we could agitate and pump to of required. We never run short of space as such but the strange rules and weeks required are relatively draconian. Outdoor slurry pit is almost useless as per the rules basically the top 3 feet are ignored from a storage point of view.




    We do have a loader but preference is to collect with car so limited in what we can carry




    It does sound like a lot. I may be over estimating. Need to review the meal dockets! Perhaps I am over estimating.

    https://www.donedeal.ie/gardenequipm...iners/26677890

    Yep.
    Very handy amd durable and cheap.

    But we have a way to lift it off the trailer and drop it in the shed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭ FeelTheBern


    We’ve one of the JFC bins. Find it handy and clean. We could lift it off the trailer with the loader but we just generally place the bin more toward the rear of the trailer when filling and then just leave it on the trailer in the shed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭ 893bet


    _Brian wrote: »
    https://www.donedeal.ie/gardenequipm...iners/26677890

    Yep.
    Very handy amd durable and cheap.

    But we have a way to lift it off the trailer and drop it in the shed.

    Could two short straps be used I wonder to lift it off with a loader.

    What height off the ground is 1000l tank including the pallet?

    I assume its the 1000litre that would be needed to take 0.6t and have a buffer space at the top.
    We’ve one of the JFC bins. Find it handy and clean. We could lift it off the trailer with the loader but we just generally place the bin more toward the rear of the trailer when filling and then just leave it on the trailer in the shed.

    Would be ideal only need to use the trailer more regularly than that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,908 ✭✭✭✭ _Brian


    893bet wrote: »
    Could two short straps be used I wonder to lift it off with a loader.

    What height off the ground is 1000l tank including the pallet?

    I assume its the 1000litre that would be needed to take 0.6t and have a buffer space at the top.



    Would be ideal only need to use the trailer more regularly than that.

    Yea we use two lifting slings amd it’s no problem. Lifting it out of a twin axle builders style trailer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,020 ✭✭✭ tanko


    893bet wrote: »
    That’s future option 1 above at 307.5eurp per tonne. So adding up over a year. As some one mentioned the yearly usage sounds high so I suspect I am over estimating and it’s likely a few tonne lower.

    Finding a way to carry 0.6t home in bulk at 240 a t seems the best option so far.

    I wouldn't be bothering with this crack of going to the Coop store to collect meal.
    Either buy or make a couple of JFC tonne bins and get the store to deliver and fill the bin.
    There's four stores within seven or eight miles of me with small lorries that have cranes to do this. Surely there's some in your area?


  • Registered Users Posts: 296 ✭✭ farisfat


    893bet wrote: »
    As it stands we calf 16 suckler cows using AI. Prob 20 next year as we are keeping on a few nice heifers. Sell the best calves as at approx 12 months and keep on the rest for second summer of grass and sell at 18-24 months usually. Finish very few ourselves so we may try a few.

    Feed approx 8-9t of ration a year but expect that to increase next year to 12t due to the few extra heads and the plan to finish a few

    Same stuff we give to the weanlings, stores and cows (if they need a bit extra during the winter period).

    Current situation
    I buy bulk and collect it in big bag, usually 0.3t at a time. In the winter these means every Saturday I spend approx 45mins to 75mins on this task depending on the que between going, collecting, coming home and unloading. Cost is 240 a tonne. 16% protein. Arrabawn beef mix 16.
    Future option 1
    Dairygold does delivery. Can get delivered by the pallet. Cost an 307.50 a tonne. So poison dear really but its a different product but I think its all 16% protein

    So and 67.50 a tonne...... but it means 3 hours+ back in my pocket and obviously less diesel spent. My time is precious. At the same time 70 quid for 3 hours work……

    Future option 2
    Install a meal bin for bulk delivery, assume a 3-4T bin is plenty



    1. Is there as minimum order qty typically??
    2. Whats the rough cost of a bin? (wont go for TAMs as don't want to draw inspection of slurry storage)
    3. What is the current cost of ration delivered from someone like Roches? Or Dan o Connors? Dairy gold bulk delivery is 287 so still significantly dearer than current rate.
    4. Assuming a minimum order qty means i have to get 3 tonne how will it hold in the bin? likely to get damp over time?


    Bonus question
    What would you do or advice me to do?

    Look at your grass land management and elimate meal from the diet.Its 7 years since i kept sucklers and they would not cover the cost of meal feeding.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,908 ✭✭✭✭ _Brian


    tanko wrote: »
    I wouldn't be bothering with this crack of going to the Coop store to collect meal.
    Either buy or make a couple of JFC tonne bins and get the store to deliver and fill the bin.
    There's four stores within seven or eight miles of me with small lorries that have cranes to do this. Surely there's some in your area?

    Ahhh, sher we’re all in and out regularly for other stuff anyway so it’s hardly bother.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22 farm to fork


    I use the large industrial wheelie bins I bought them for 100 euro a piece. They hold 650 kgs of meal. I go to the co op with the jeep and trailer and lift them off with loader on the tractor. The bale lifter works perfect for that job. Only downside they are deep so if you are short in stature you may have a problem.


  • Registered Users Posts: 701 ✭✭✭ minerleague


    893bet wrote: »
    As it stands we calf 16 suckler cows using AI. Prob 20 next year as we are keeping on a few nice heifers. Sell the best calves as at approx 12 months and keep on the rest for second summer of grass and sell at 18-24 months usually. Finish very few ourselves so we may try a few.

    Feed approx 8-9t of ration a year but expect that to increase next year to 12t due to the few extra heads and the plan to finish a few

    Same stuff we give to the weanlings, stores and cows (if they need a bit extra during the winter period).

    Current situation
    I buy bulk and collect it in big bag, usually 0.3t at a time. In the winter these means every Saturday I spend approx 45mins to 75mins on this task depending on the que between going, collecting, coming home and unloading. Cost is 240 a tonne. 16% protein. Arrabawn beef mix 16.
    Future option 1
    Dairygold does delivery. Can get delivered by the pallet. Cost an 307.50 a tonne. So poison dear really but its a different product but I think its all 16% protein

    So and 67.50 a tonne...... but it means 3 hours+ back in my pocket and obviously less diesel spent. My time is precious. At the same time 70 quid for 3 hours work……

    Future option 2
    Install a meal bin for bulk delivery, assume a 3-4T bin is plenty



    1. Is there as minimum order qty typically??
    2. Whats the rough cost of a bin? (wont go for TAMs as don't want to draw inspection of slurry storage)
    3. What is the current cost of ration delivered from someone like Roches? Or Dan o Connors? Dairy gold bulk delivery is 287 so still significantly dearer than current rate.
    4. Assuming a minimum order qty means i have to get 3 tonne how will it hold in the bin? likely to get damp over time?


    Bonus question
    What would you do or advice me to do?

    I know you say you dont want to draw attention by going TAMS route but would you be better doing it now before you expand numbers? Neighbour near me put in a bin Through TAMS and what struck me was how tidy ( 2m x 2m) it is. Thought they only look at slurry storage if you are building shed etc ( could be wrong. Like you i dont use much (5 tonne/year at most) with outside blocks where finishing cattle are kept but think i will go route of putting in bin


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,020 ✭✭✭ tanko


    I know you say you dont want to draw attention by going TAMS route but would you be better doing it now before you expand numbers? Neighbour near me put in a bin Through TAMS and what struck me was how tidy ( 2m x 2m) it is. Thought they only look at slurry storage if you are building shed etc ( could be wrong. Like you i dont use much (5 tonne/year at most) with outside blocks where finishing cattle are kept but think i will go route of putting in bin

    Putting in a bin for 5 tonne a year doesn't make sense. The minimum bulk delivery is 3/4 tonnes. It won't keep for 6 or 9 months imo.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,227 ✭✭✭ J.O. Farmer


    I know you say you dont want to draw attention by going TAMS route but would you be better doing it now before you expand numbers? Neighbour near me put in a bin Through TAMS and what struck me was how tidy ( 2m x 2m) it is. Thought they only look at slurry storage if you are building shed etc ( could be wrong. Like you i dont use much (5 tonne/year at most) with outside blocks where finishing cattle are kept but think i will go route of putting in bin

    If you have cattle being fed in outside blocks the jfc type bin is the way to go.

    Put 750kg in it, put on the bale lifter of the tractor and leave as close as you can to where you're feeding to make life easy for yourself.

    It'll even store bags away from vermin if you use them. That's something a bin won't do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭ 893bet


    _Brian wrote: »
    Yea we use two lifting slings amd it’s no problem. Lifting it out of a twin axle builders style trailer.

    That sounds like a decent enough plan.

    tanko wrote: »
    I wouldn't be bothering with this crack of going to the Coop store to collect meal.
    Either buy or make a couple of JFC tonne bins and get the store to deliver and fill the bin.
    There's four stores within seven or eight miles of me with small lorries that have cranes to do this. Surely there's some in your area?

    It is a lot more expensive this way. 50 a tonne and minimum qtys will have me beaten
    farisfat wrote: »
    Look at your grass land management and elimate meal from the diet.Its 7 years since i kept sucklers and they would not cover the cost of meal feeding.

    You ain’t wrong but land is largely marginal and grass certainly ain’t free. Between off farm job and commute I do 55hours a week so grass land management is tough task


    I know you say you dont want to draw attention by going TAMS route but would you be better doing it now before you expand numbers? Neighbour near me put in a bin Through TAMS and what struck me was how tidy ( 2m x 2m) it is. Thought they only look at slurry storage if you are building shed etc ( could be wrong. Like you i dont use much (5 tonne/year at most) with outside blocks where finishing cattle are kept but think i will go route of putting in bin

    From reading it seems if you touch feed storage then you open up slurry inspection also. Not something I want to do.

    Expansion is temporarily in nature. When my father is not around anymore I will like cut back and rent out a portion or similar. Any investment in slurry storage will be extreme loss making.

    tanko wrote: »
    Putting in a bin for 5 tonne a year doesn't make sense. The minimum bulk delivery is 3/4 tonnes. It won't keep for 6 or 9 months imo.

    I am agreeing. Looking at the dockets I have over estimating and we are using closer to 7t. I have Dockets for 5.5t, assuming 1 or 2 misplaced dockets and 2-3 more trips before year end then 7t seems more accurate. With a meal bin with even a 3t minimum then it would be a struggle to keep the meal fresh. Would be fine in winter when usage is higher but in summer then it would be difficult balance and we would end up reverting to a bag I would bet.


    Looks like and IBC, JFC or tipsy bin where I can collect 0.6 t at a time is the most efficient job. Thanks all for the advice! Important calibration!


  • Registered Users Posts: 701 ✭✭✭ minerleague


    tanko wrote: »
    Putting in a bin for 5 tonne a year doesn't make sense. The minimum bulk delivery is 3/4 tonnes. It won't keep for 6 or 9 months imo.

    understand that but most feed is for finishing cattle, Sept-- Oct time and then 1 tonne dec - jan weanlings. Used pump into garage on outside block but last of it would go off alright. Just 40% is a fair whack off and easier for bord bia etc. ( better than small bags which I'm doing this year)


  • Registered Users Posts: 694 ✭✭✭ mr.stonewall


    Is there anything in the market that would be a portable meal bin on wheels, hold a 1 to 1.5 ton. Sloped floor, with a hatch to fill buckets. Pull behind jeep, maybe leg jack's to support when parked up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 783 ✭✭✭ grange mac


    Neighbour of mine has 2 old square oil tanks plastic welded together.
    Took time to steam wash the diesel smell from them but its on blocks and he has a big bag hatch underneath to leave out the nuts.
    They are standing if you can picture them stand up on their small side.
    The 2 tanks combined hold 2.5 ton, in 2 separate compartments.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,908 ✭✭✭✭ _Brian


    Is there anything in the market that would be a portable meal bin on wheels, hold a 1 to 1.5 ton. Sloped floor, with a hatch to fill buckets. Pull behind jeep, maybe leg jack's to support when parked up.

    Honestly I wouldn’t want to be pulling that on the road. Centre of gravity would be high making it a nightmare.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,769 ✭✭✭ Jb1989


    Is there anything in the market that would be a portable meal bin on wheels, hold a 1 to 1.5 ton. Sloped floor, with a hatch to fill buckets. Pull behind jeep, maybe leg jack's to support when parked up.

    There definitely was years ago, seen one in a man's yard. Would've been 1.5 t, flap on bottom. Was nice outfit


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,769 ✭✭✭ Jb1989




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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,411 ✭✭✭ funkey_monkey


    I like how those lights are flush fit.

    Do the tipsy bins have slots for pallet forks as well as bale lifter slots?



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